"High Thrust" twins on a 25

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I'm sure others will have their own opinions, but a pull start kicker (no battery required) with it's own fuel supply would be a dependable option as long as it is run on a regular basis or run dry and float bowl drained to help elimanate the problems related to ethanol laced fuel. If it were me I would not go with less than 10 hp on a 25'cruiser unless you just boat in a lake. The propane powered kicker is a nice concept but adds other hassles like a propane locker etc. but Just my opinion here. I see the beauty in simplicity.
D.D.
 
That is the beauty of a dinghy motor--it is run regularly, uses separate fuel and is pull start; no battery. As for HP--If you want to use the kicker for a trolling motor and want to go more than 3 to 4 knots--OK you may want an 8 hp high thrust. (which is a better choice than 15 hp or 20 hp standard prop/lower unit) But if you just want something to get you to a safe place, or out of a pickle until the main engine is fixed, the dinghy motor will do fine. For the life of me--and with a lot of experience with small outboards and boats the size of C Dory, I cannot figure why one would want a motor larger than 8 HP.

Propane? Not really a good choice. You have to carry a specific extra fuel--if in larger thanks than the small canisters, then a separate vented locker. More likely to be an explosive problem than even gasoline. Expensive in the small canisters. Also the issue of seals on propane bottles. I have seen a number fail--and that is a serious problem.
 
Everyone has their own ideas about what works best for them. Because we use a small Bombard Air Max 2 dinghy rated for up to 4hp which weighs a little over 50 pounds because I have to carry it from the garage to the truck and from the truck to the boat I wanted something light. I have a 2.5 hp Yamaha on a mount in our boat's cockpit which weighs in about 37 pounds. It too travels from the garage to the truck to the boat. Lifting 6 ,8 or 10 hp kicker motor to a dinghy was something I wanted to avoid. Plus I did not want a dink that could take a 6 or 8 hp motor as that would be a heavier boat to lift also. I guess you can rig a lifting davit but not as simple as I would like so I did not go there. So the effort to keep things I lift a little lighter led me to decide what I thought was best for us since I do the lifting. The idea of using one motor for a dink and a kicker was not for us.
D.D.
 
Will-C":o5e5npf3 said:
I have a 2.5 hp Yamaha on a mount in our boat's cockpit which weighs in about 37 pounds. It too travels from the garage to the truck to the boat. Lifting 6 ,8 or 10 hp kicker motor to a dinghy was something I wanted to avoid. ...The idea of using one motor for a dink and a kicker was not for us.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking that Bob is mentioning the opposite concept, i.e. using a light/small dinghy motor as a backup to the primary engine on the big boat (vs. it sounds like you were imagining him using a "heavy" ~8-10 hp kicker for both uses).

My boat came with a nearly new Honda 8 with tiller, electric and pull start, etc. It's a really nice engine, but I'm considering going with a 2hp Honda instead, for the light weight. Haven't made any decision yet though.... still thinking it over.

Sunbeam :hot
 
Dunno what anyone else was thinking but I don't think for our use a 2.5 hp or even a four hp would really do it as a kicker. We get into the ocean quite a bit maybe it's just me but more is better. Maybe if you are in a lake things are different. We have lots of current even in the bays and inlets with the tides. I'm thinking more along the lines of 10 hp hi thrust and just leave it on the transom. Looks like the 8hp hi thrust has disapeared from the Yamaha model line.
D.D.
 
I have had experiences with using 2 hp to 4 hp dinghy motors pushing boats as heavy or or even heavier than the C Dory--for example--the 4.5 hp dinghy motor pushed out 62 foot 65,000 lb ketch at 2.5 knots~ !. It kept us out of trouble until we got in inflatable pumped up, and the 25 hp on it fired up--which pushed us at 5.5 knots, and we were able to stem the tide.

What a dinghy motor will do is put you in a safe direction--it might not be the direction you want to go at at particular moment--but many times it will--and will get you to safety. An 8 hp kicker may or may not give you what you need to get back to safety--the primary use is to get the main motor back on line (which if you have adequate back up parts, fuel, and batteries etc. 99% of the time you will save yourself--if you are prepared.)

As Sunbeam noted, I am suggesting the opposite of an 8hp dinghy motor. My background is ocean use, and I once pushed an Owen's sea Skiff 27 back to Long Beach from 15 miles out with a puny 2 hp Evinrude, and to safety.
 
Bob,
I'm not trying to argue with you. I just don't see many C-Dory's especially 25' models using 2 or four hp for kickers. Maybe for lake trolling. For me I'd go with an eight of ten horsepower kicker. I cruise regularly with a couple from Ct. who use a 10 hp kicker which pushes their 22' C-Dory cruiser along quite nicely. I know 8 hp are probably the same motor and cheaper but there are a lot of 10 hp motors out there. All the people who buy them can't be crazy. I for one do not dispute your ocean experience. Everyone is different,I would have called sea tow. Have a great day! :D
D.D.
 
Maybe one difference is between people who are looking to use a second engine as a kicker vs. people who are looking to use it as a potential "get out of the road" motor if the main engine conks out for some reason. I'm thinking of "kicker" as an engine that someone plans to use as a regular propulsion device (say, a person who - for one reason or another - doesn't want to use the main engine for the regular trolling they do); vs. an engine that is basically a mechanical "backup oar" (that also may do double duty as a dinghy engine).

As you say, different strokes for different folks; I'm just thinking in terms of establishing common concepts. For example, if I were thinking of using my second engine as the type of kicker I described above (and it sounds like this is your use scenario, if I'm reading you correctly), then I would definitely keep my Honda 8D. It's a great engine, has useful features (electric start plus manual start, alternator, tiller), and plenty of power for displacement speeds in varying conditions.

On the other hand, if I'm only looking at it as a "mechanical oar" in times of trouble (of course with regular maintenance/running to be sure it works), then I'll probably go with something like a Honda 2 and save nearly 100# on the transom (plus be able to use it double-duty as a dinghy motor if desired). But as Bob notes, with the latter sort of set-up one is not expecting to run for home at speed and get there on time; but rather to get oneself to a safe place and then deal with the problem/make arrangements/etc.

To my mind, there's ultimately no practical way to satisfy all possible scenarios on boats of our size (or even larger) -- so each person has to weigh the options and choose the method of compromise he or she is comfortable with.

Sunbeam :hot
 
No "Sea Tow" in the Rue d'Brest, France, 1984....but I don't believe in relying on others--learn to take care of your self--don't depend on "Sea Tow".

One of my friends found out the hard way. $9,000 for an "ungrounding". He had called Boat US 3 hours before they arrived (at low tide). When the call was initiated, the boat was in shallow water, with dragging anchors (inadequate--as many boats have)--and the boat was floating. Boat US claimed it was a "salvage" (flat bottom boat in an anchorage, with I/O propulsion. It is written up in several magazines...
 
Matt is right, the US site only lists a 20" leg but international numbers show a longer option.

UK example

http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/eu/products/ ... =techspecs

Too bad they don't have longer options on some of these motors because I think it could be a good combo.

To see a possible future of outboard propulsion thinking, check out this new offering.

http://www.boattest.com/boats/boat_video.aspx?id=2752

I wonder how long it will be before we see a large trawler model with high thrust small outboard power.
 
Bob,
My drift here was to try and offer the original poster opinions of what I think or thought would work. In my my mind using our 2.5 hp motor as a AUX motor on our boat is not something I would do or recommend. Just my opinion. Can you do it, sure. I mentioned why we do what we do. I have about 25 years boating,a mere drop in the bucket compared to your world travels. I got towed once in those 25 years a fuel issue, it seemed like a good thing. I had another boat raft me up while I went about trying to solve the problem. I changed out both fuel filters but Yamaha had some issues with a water separator's bowl under the cowl swelling from the ethanol in the gasoline. That turned out to be an issue. Yamaha has since warrantied the plastic float bowl now made from another type of material that does not swell from ethanol. After awhile the water was getting rougher, we were near some busy ferry activity. We were in between Greenport and Shelter Island Hieghts on the eastern end of long Island. I did not want my friend to have to deal with towing us. I made the first call to Boat US towing in my 25 years. They were quick to response and the operator was great. He put us right into a slip in the marina at Greenport. I have always bought towing insurance although this was the first time I ever used it. I think it was a good decision. Not many on this site have your skill set including me. While it's a great idea to be self reliant,it's also good to know your limits and have a backup plan. Unlimited towing insurance is pretty cheap through Boat-US or SeaTow. Your horror story surely can't be the norm for towing services.
D.D. :)
 
I agree with Bob about dinghy's getting you out of trouble. We lived on a Grand Banks 42 for 10 yrs. We towed it a few times with our dink & 8 hp std. Yammy. That's over a 22 TON boat! Also towed/pushed many other boats with that dink, it was like the marina's workhorse. Ocean/strong currents is another issue, but it's amazing what a good 8 hp motor can move. Roy
 
Aurelia":1nh003m8 said:
To see a possible future of outboard propulsion thinking, check out this new offering.

http://www.boattest.com/boats/boat_video.aspx?id=2752

I wonder how long it will be before we see a large trawler model with high thrust small outboard power.
Click to expand...

The problem with this boat and propulsion combo is that you have to get 5,000 RPM to get the boat on a plane! This means running the boat near this RPM all of the time--and this is a a light boat! Not going to be practical--most CC or outboard expresses this size, run triples or even quads--up to 350 hp each!

Bayliner is not going to be produced in the US any more--Sea Ray will replace that line only. (Bayliner is going to Brazil). So Sea Ray is the "new" Bayliner. Cost of a conventional basic 37 foot Sea Ray is over $200,000.

There are already many large houseboats which run on twin outboards and run at trawler speeds. (A visit to Lake Powell, will show you many examples of this). Also cats with outboards which run at trawler speeds
 
Only the Bayliner cruisers are gone.

Bayliner is dropping their cruiser line in North America, but it will continue to be produced in Brazil at their plant for the Sounth American market.

Bayliner will continue to produce runabout, deck and a new line of jet boats for North America. I'm not sure where these will be produced, but I can't imagine a Brazil produced boat being cost effective to transport to the US. Mexica might work. expect to see more outboard powered offerings from them.

The cruiser market is shrinking, and with the reduction in volume the last four years, the price point that Byaliner enjoyed just isn't possible anymore. The cost of boats are rising for all manufacturers. Couple that with the high price of fuel, and it's no wonder the cruiser market is dying.
 
The Bayliner/SeaRay plant in Knoxville TN is closing, and production of SeaRays is going to the other Tn plans or Florida. No mention of where any smaller Bayliners are to be built.

"Bayliner will instead pursue new categories in the United States and Europe, including a new jetboat line and an “affordable boating” line called “Element,” according to Brunswick." another press release says:
" Over the next several months, we will introduce an all new line of bowriders, a new series of deckboats with innovative and modern design, and we will launch the ‘Element,’ our newest concept in affordable boating. In 2013, Bayliner will enter the jet boat category with a new series of boats. "
Bayliner already has two production facilities in Mexico. So much for the "good economy"...
 
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