Handheld VHFs with GPS/DSC

[letitride]

Harvey,

I agree with all your comments.

I would assume that if you tried calling a very large vessel (Cargo ship ect) they should be capable and able to respond...but who knows if anyone is on watch at the time your trying to call.

I'll share a story & try & make it short & to the point, pls bare with me:

I had to rescue one of my buddy's in the water at night once 18 miles off shore crossing from Santa Cruz Island to Oxnard.

Luckily (we were crossing together, 2 boats) I saw him fly off the 2nd boat on a full moon night when there boat (very large RIB) hit a very steep large swell, he didn't have any lights, but had his wet suit still on from night diving. (He got lucky)

I was also very lucky stopped the boat quickly & turned around & found him only because he was yelling at me, honestly it was SCARY it took what felt like forever to find him in the water at night, it was probably around 5-10mins.....

The boat he fell out of turned around but was so far away they where basically useless at that point and they searched in a different area.

Next dive trip he had so many lights on him at night he looked like a Christmas tree he was better prepared, live an learn....

All of us can be better prepared.

Just image its at night, I would happily try calling every boat close to me all night long, but you have to know there is a boat around your position to call else your wasting your time and battery power on nothing...

 

[hardee]

First off: The Handheld VHF's DO NOT transmit an AIS signal. (*)
They are AIS receive only. So you can look at the screen and see where the closest AIS transmission is coming from so you can determine the distance, but there is no guarantee with that, whether they will answer, or respond. AS there is no guarantee with the DSC transmission, except with that -- given you have an MMSI installed -- the USCG will recognize your call, determine you location and respond to that location. (That may take some time, in my location a response to a call from the mid Juan de Fuca would be a minimum of 30-45 minutes.

(*) There are a few AIS transmitting MOB devices available. That discussion is beyo0nd the scope of this thread.

letitride Good story. Thanks. I was involved in a search for a capsized kayaker one time. He was using a handheld VHF. It was late morning, very heavy dense fog with viz about 50 - 100 feet. I had just turned south where Johnston Strait ends at Chatham Point and turns into Discovery Passage, North of Campbell River about 27 miles. I had been watching on AIS, a northbound tug (no tow) headed north. (Nice thing about AIS, it can see around corners and over land masses.) I came to the point, and corner about 5 minutes ahead of the tug so took my Starboard turn, on the inside, leaving him plenty of room, I was staying close to the Vancouver Island shore side. I had talked to the tug, and watched him pass my beam on the radar, but never actually saw him. ( I was doing about 3.5 knots water speed but about 6k over the ground.) He was doing about 10K going upstream and I saw his radar spot disappear behind the point. Within seconds of that I heard a MAYDAY call. Clear, succinct and desperate. "Capsized my kayak, unable to reboard, disoriented as to direction but just south of Chatham Point." And " . . . I heard a ship go by just now." There was no CG response immediately. The tug called that he was in the area and would respond. I relayed the call to the CCG, and that I was responding, about 6-8 min away.

The kayaker could hear the tug, and was trying to tell the tug which direction he was from him but he didn't really know which way was shore. I asked the kayaker if he could hear my fog horn, and by then he could. I told him I was down stream and south of him. ( I thought I could see him on the radar by then, and could see the tug.) He used me as south, and was able to direct the tug to essentially drift down on him. As I arrived he was getting pulled up onto the tug deck, and they took his kayak aboard too.

Obviously if that kayaker had not had a VHF he may not have survived but, having one, he was able to talk to the tug which he knew was close. IF he had AIS receive on his handheld he would have been able to vector that tug to him without the added help from my horn to provide a direction.

Often wondered if the tug wake was what put him in the water? The timing sure would fit.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[hardee]

Harvey wrote:

I use a pair of Standard Horizon HX851 Handheld VHF's and YES they have an on board GPS. and DSC. It is my understanding that the DSC will work without an MMSI number in the radio, BUT when activated it does not give out the identifier info that comes with an MMSI registration, SO, response time will be delayed.

Below are direct quotes from the Public Information Officer, CG District NO #8. This person is a 33 year veteran of the CG and a very active Gulf Coast recreational boater and fisherman. I know the individual personally and he has stated many times that for DSC to work you must have the MMSI programmed in.

The easiest thing to do is use your VHF DSC Distress button. WARNING, it doesn't work if it's not set up properly.

When you first power the radio up (like first second or two) an MMSI will show up on the screen if an MMSI has been programmed. You will also get some indication on the radio screen that you have a GPS signal in the radio. The language varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Next time you are with your boat, take a look.

As many boaters as there are in many areas, with VHF DSC alert, you can often get boaters on scene much more quickly. There is some lag time between when an EPIRB is activated and when the Coast Guard Issues a VHF Urgent Marine Information Broadcast. Those could be critical minutes. I'd encourage boaters in distress to activate both.

From CG web site: The MMSI number is a general all CG stations number. Each CG station also has a specific MMSI number

For VHF DSC radios equipped with the Test Call feature, test transmissions should be made to the US Coast Guard MMSI 003669999 to receive an automated VHF DSC test response. You must use the “Test Call” category of your radio because “Individual” category calls to this address will not receive an automated response. For older radios not having a test call capability, testing can only be performed by using a routine individual call to their Maritime Mobile Service Indentity (MMSI).

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL A DSC DISTRESS ALERT BE SENT TO TEST YOUR RADIO. IT IS A VIOLATION OF THE RULES AND CAN RESULT IN HEAVY FINES.

From USPS web sight:

Modern marine radios now feature Digital Selective Calling (DSC) for routine operations and for automated distress hailing.
These features can only be used if your radio is programmed with a unique code called a Maritime Mobile Service Identity, or MMSI.

Here is a discussion of DSC and video of the SH 890 use.

OK, so right now I am preparing a whole dish of CROW --- Yup, That feather black bird and yes there are lots of feathers all over my face right now too.

BOB is full on RIGHT, (and there are others to) Maybe there is a reason I felt like a salmon swimming upstream

I have been emailing back and forth with Juan Hernandez of Standard Horizon Tech support, and here is my question:

Juan, Thank you for your response. I need to see if I understand this correctly. Without an MMSI number stored in the HX851, when the RED button is pressed, there is ABSOLUTELY NO TRANSMISSION from the HX851 at all. Is that what you mean by "The Distress button requires the radio to have an MMSI programmed. Otherwise it will not function."

And Juan's answer:

Without an MMSI number the radios digital selective calling(DSC) features are not active. The Distress button is a DSC feature and needs an MMSI number to function. There is nothing to transmit without the MMSI.

Best regards,

Juan Hernandez

j.hernandez@yaesu.com

Yaesu USA
Standard Horizon
6125 Phyllis Drive
Cypress, Ca 90630
Ph: 714-827-7600
Fx: 714-527-9472


So, I have been operating under "Misinformation" for several years and apologize to those who I have passed that on to. DO put your MMSI into your handheld VHF.

My apologies.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[ssobol]

Without an MMSI number the radios digital selective calling(DSC) features are not active. The Distress button is a DSC feature and needs an MMSI number to function. There is nothing to transmit without the MMSI.

It would be really nice if all the radio manufacturers put that statement in large bold type on one of the first pages in each radio operating manual. It is a simple explanation on why you need to program a MMSI number.

There is wide confusion over DSC operation and MMSI numbers in the recreational boating community.

 

[thataway]

That's OK Harvey, I have one very large Pensacola Bay Pelican being sent to you Fed Ex overnight. They go down best with the hottest of "Crystal" hot sauce. Be sure and drink a liter of beer (best at a Sequim Micro brewery) with each bite of the pelican. Be sure and thaw the bird before eating.

Best regards--I figured some day you would find out... There has been a constant struggle on The Hull Truth to get folks to put in the MMSI number. The CG information officer has been a great addition to the forum in his official capacity. He also posts under his recreational boater moniker also.

I also read an aviation Blog--there was a recent crash of a French recreational plane in the Austrian Alps (Hit a power line which was at 9700 feet elevation). The pilot owed his life to: a good helmet (Think life jacket) and he was wearing a survival vest. In the vest he had a personal locator beacon which he activated as soon as he got clear of the wreckage--an Austrian chopper was on scene in about 15 minutes!. He also had a hand held air band (121.5 MHz) radio and could communicate with the chopper to co-ordinate a L Z and asses both he and his passengers back injuries. (He also had a second cell phone in the vest, so he was able to communicate with his family that he was alive. I consider this analogous to having a hand held water proof, DSC enabled with MMSI radio (should also have the Personal Locator beacon!) attached to one's life jacket or in a fanny pack etc.

I know Harvey to be an advocate of putting the MMSI number into the radio!!!

 

[colbysmith]

I think I've worked with Juan once a while back as well with some stuff on my radio when it was new. Nice to see the guy is still there, and still responding. That to me is good customer service! Colby

 

[hardee]

Yes Bob.

"I know Harvey to be an advocate of putting the MMSI number into the radio!!!"

And of having the PLB and HH vhf on the PFD in most situations. (AND the MMSI in every boat radio.

I will have to pass on the micro Beer, but I will pick up a dose of ginger beer and wash some "crow" down with that.

Colby. By all means. That should be in big red letters on every HH VHF box and in the instructions. That DSC RED Button is and HHVHF is 90% useless in an emergency without an MMSI.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[jkidd]

I learned the other day that you really want separate mmsi numbers in each radio. When you register one of the questions is it a boat or a person for the hand held you want to pick person. So the CG will know their looking for a person and not trying to find a boat. You also get the feature of being able to practice the dsc calling function so you know how to use it. Of course that won’t mean others will know to use it.

 

[thataway]

I learned the other day that you really want separate mmsi numbers in each radio. When you register one of the questions is it a boat or a person for the hand held you want to pick person. So the CG will know their looking for a person and not trying to find a boat. You also get the feature of being able to practice the dsc calling function so you know how to use it. Of course that won’t mean others will know to use it.

That is a valid point. However we use our PLBs on both land and sea. So they are registered to our person. An EPIRB is registered to only a boat or air plane.

On a plaque on Thataway, we had instructions for both channel 16 and for use of DSC; When we were voyaging, and others were aboard, we had a series of "emergency check lists" right at the companionway. One of these dealt with use of the EPRIB--and if time SSB Radio/VHF radios.

Specific usage (selectable from a list)
Type for vehicle or vessel (selectable from a list)
Additional Data is a text field in which you can enter hike plan information if using on land, and vessel or aircraft information if using in water or air (name, color, identifying marks, float or flight plans)

It is not either or...but you can explain use--and many times it will be both--ie taking the boat to Lake Powell, and then hiking when on the lake. We see many of the SAR on Lake Powell where the party originated from a boat on the hike than fell and needed extraction. This is where the PLB comes in play.[/quote]

 

[hardee]

I just started a thread regarding Emergency DSC MMSI use. It is here:

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=30426&highlight=

I do have one station VHF without an MMSI assigned, It was the weakest of the 3, and I wanted one that would not be locked up with DSC activity which could take more than one minute, possibly 2, before I could get my radio "back". (That radio has a note on the red door advising "DO NOT USE in an EMERGENCY". The boat radios are on the same MMSI. And now the handhelds will be also, but my PLB (ACR ResQLink+) is registered via NOAA and it is registered to my person, not my boat. It had the option for "Notes" where I put in my Boat WA registration number, trailer Lic number, a brief description and then also of the motorcycle, it's Plate number and helmet and jacket info. The PLB goes where I go. It is 6 years old and I just replaced the battery.

Jody, I think the DSC testing function is available on the newer HH VHFs, but not on all. The PLB's do have some testing capability. Check before you do that, though.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

 

[jkidd]

I just started a thread regarding Emergency DSC MMSI use. It is here:

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=30426&highlight=

I do have one station VHF without an MMSI assigned, It was the weakest of the 3, and I wanted one that would not be locked up with DSC activity which could take more than one minute, possibly 2, before I could get my radio "back". (That radio has a note on the red door advising "DO NOT USE in an EMERGENCY". The boat radios are on the same MMSI. And now the handhelds will be also, but my PLB (ACR ResQLink+) is registered via NOAA and it is registered to my person, not my boat. It had the option for "Notes" where I put in my Boat WA registration number, trailer Lic number, a brief description and then also of the motorcycle, it's Plate number and helmet and jacket info. The PLB goes where I go. It is 6 years old and I just replaced the battery.



Jody, I think the DSC testing function is available on the newer HH VHFs, but not on all. The PLB's do have some testing capability. Check before you do that, though.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

Harvey, Did you send it in and how much did it cost, mine is at least that old.

 

[hardee]

Jody If you are asking about the PLB and new battery, No I did not send it in.
I called ACR and of course they told me I could not change the battery, and there is a seal on one of the screws, so the warrantee would by invalid if I opened it up. (And they wanted $169.oo plus shipping), BUT the ACR PLB is over 6 years old, so no warrantee issues anyway. I found "Beacon Battery Replacement.com with a nice video on Youtube and a $39.00 battery, 6 year life span, (Like the original) and it was EASY. I even did teh test afterwards and it works. :shock: :smile

Beacon Battery Replacement and they are a USA product, assembly at least.
https://beaconbatteryreplacement.com/

PS: The battery life on Most PLB's is 6 years. Check Yours.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Hunkydory]

Harvey, I did the same as you with ACR PLB, $39 battery replacement done myself.

Jay

 

[jkidd]

I’ll be doing the same for mine.

 

[colbysmith]

Same here. Thanks Harvey. I actually bought a new PLB anyway to get one of the newer ones. But for $40, I'll buy a new battery for the old one as it's 6 years old I believe. Colby