GPS Questions (again...)

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C-Gypsy

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2006
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22 Cruiser
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C-Gypsy
I am planning to order a new Garmin GPS on Tuesday morning.

As posted months ago, I used to have a Garmin 540s. One day someone decided they needed it more than I did and stole it off my boat.

I am considering the Garmin 541s and the Garmin 546s.

There seems to be a $300.00 price difference between the two. I would like to know if the 546s is worth the extra $300. I am not an avid fisherman and my days of cruising for 2 weeks or more are over (and that was back in my sailing days).

One thing to keep in mind is that the 541s uses the same transducer as the 540s. I believe the 546s uses a different transducer.

When the thief took my 540s he did not take the transducer, so I could continue using the old one and have a spare if I go with the 541s.

I am also planning to order a new radio and am considering the Garmin 200.

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated!

Al
 
I run the 541, the only reason I didn't go the 546 was the resolution. I don't fish and the resolution on the 541 was awesome already so didn't think the extra dough was worth it. They share the same procesor so are really fast on redraws and I love my 541. George 8)
 
Al;

As a suggestion -
I did not lookup the Garmin 200, but I would suggest that you try to buy a VHF Marine Radio that is a Type D, DSC radio. This means that it will be able to monitor Ch70 all the time for any DSC alerts for it has a dedicated receiver 'module' for the DSC channel; else, the radio will time share thru scanning the monitoring of DSC messages; if, you set it up.

The prices of these Type D has dropped from the $800-900 range to the $200s_ range in the past year.

Art
 
George ~ Yes, my 540s was excellent in my opinion. Always did the job and had great resolution (probably still does, but for someone else now).

Art, ~ From what I have read the Garmin 200 is a D, DSC radio. If someone knows better I welcome any input (Pam will probably only let me buy ONE new radio this year!).

Thanks gentlemen.

Al
 
I use the Garmin 541 on my Caracal and find the resolution adequate. I have compared the 541 vs the 546, and for that size screen and the use on a small boat--the resolution is fine.

I happen to like Standard Horizon or Icom, because they are radio manufactuers. They make commercial and ham radios as well as marine radios--and both are highly respected in the fields. The Standard are easy to attatch to the plotters--and you can even get one with AIS reciever, loud hailer and fog horn, for a nice price--no extra antennas etc.

However believe that Garmin does make aircraft VHF radios--and the 200 is NMEA 2000 compatable (not sure that is of any benefit for you however).
 
Bob ~

I am just curious... Why do you question the value of NMEA 2000 for me?

Again, just curious. I'm always ready to learn!
 
Al,
I was not saying that NMEA was not an option or good--because it is both.
I just wondered if it was something that you wanted to get io, and you may already have some of the sensors and want it. (My understanding is that the depth sounder transducer is direct connect and not NMEA 2000--I have the Garmin 541, and use a Lowrance depth finder which I prefer)

The plus with the radio, is that it should be (not always is) plug and play with the radio and the GPS using the NMEA 2000 backbone.

I have NMEA 2000 on the Tom Cat--and it is very useful--but it can be frustrating to set up. Garmin has an excellent reputation, and it should work well. (and I have heard easy to set up).

The real advantage for you of NMEA 2000 over 0183 is not necessarilly in the radio (except if you put a MOB location in, it can be programed to set off the DSC on the Garmin 200 VHF--and 0183 will not)--The NMEA 0183 protocol will work with any DSC radio on the Garmin 541, just as well as the NMEA 2000 (except you will have to do two wire connection--either splice or the mini connectors, instead of NMEA 2000 connectors).

The real advantage would be if your engine is MNEA 2000 and I didn't see in the manual that the 2006 Honda 90 was--then you could run the engine NMEA output into the chart plotter--as well as fuel flow guages, fuel tank level guage, wind speed, wind direction if you wanted to spend the several thousand dollars to do that. However, this 5" screen is a bit small for all of that information.

I prefer to put the extra engine--weather etc on other displays. If using the Garmin then something like the GMI 10 gauge (or two) @ $500 each. For example I have the Lowrance NMEA 2000 backbone and can send data to the 7" chart plotter, or either LMF 200 or 400 gauges from the Suzuki engines.

Hope that helps--and clarifies, that I think that NMEA 2000 is a good thing!
 
Bob ~

Thanks for the reply. After reading your post I concede that NMEA is not something I want to pursue to any great degree.

One question though; is there any advantage to connecting the GPS to the Garmin radio via NMEA 2000? If so what are the advantages (I guess that was two questions)? :mrgreen:

Al
 
C-Gypsy":hqxf26ao said:
Bob ~

Thanks for the reply. After reading your post I concede that NMEA is not something I want to pursue to any great degree.

One question though; is there any advantage to connecting the GPS to the Garmin radio via NMEA 2000? If so what are the advantages (I guess that was two questions)? :mrgreen:

Al
Click to expand...
As I understand it, there's many advantages of NMEA 2000 vs. NMEA 0183. The main advantage is that NMEA 2000 is a "bus" that allows multiple devices to be hooked to hit where as NMEA 0183 does not without the purchase of a multiplexer (and additional wiring). Since NMEA 2000 is the newer of the communications standards, you can expect that it will be around longer. Eventually, NMEA 0183 will be phased out.
 
rogerbum":1q5sytqj said:
As I understand it, there's many advantages of NMEA 2000 vs. NMEA 0183. The main advantage is that NMEA 2000 is a "bus" that allows multiple devices to be hooked to hit where as NMEA 0183 does not without the purchase of a multiplexer (and additional wiring). Since NMEA 2000 is the newer of the communications standards, you can expect that it will be around longer. Eventually, NMEA 0183 will be phased out.
Click to expand...

Roger ~ I was not asking if there are advantages of NMEA 0183 over NMEA 2000.

I was asking if there are any advantages of having my radio connected to my GPS via NMEA, and if so what are those advantages?

I'm a network engineer by trade, specializing in WAN's, VPN's and HIPAA compliancy. However I know nothing about NMEA whatsoever.

You are correct about 0183 being phased out though... It never ceases to amaze me how quickly one technology can be replaced by something newer and more efficient!

Al
 
If the question is "does it make sense to have the radio and gps wired to communicate with each other", the answer is HECK YES. If you want all of the particulars, go to the Boat U.S. website, and scroll down under their Safety tab to see a demo video.

Ask yourself one question: if your boat is sinking or on fire, and you press the Distress button on the radio, would you perfer that the message sent be "mayday", or "mayday, my vessel name is xxx, and I'm located at Lat xxx, Long yyy."? It's really that simple. If you prefer the second version, you have to do three things: get a free MMSI number from Boat U.S., program the number into your radio, AND connect the data feeds between the radio and the gps so the radio distress message can include your position.
 
I don't see NMEA 0183 going away anytime soon. First it is easy to do from the electronics manufacturer's standpoint, and allows a multitude of devices to communicate with each other very simply. From a network perspective, NMEA 2000 has single failure points in it's need for external power and the need for open connectors to be terminated. You can't just remove a device unless you terminate it. I would like to shift my network over to NMEA 2000 but that will probably wait for the next boat. I have dabbled with it on the existing boat with the data from the Yamaha engine and Raymarine C-80 but both are limited in what they send or will display. Such were early implementations of NMEA 2000. I may yet experiment with Lowrance LMF400 gauge, but I am not there yet.
 
I agree with both above--that it is essential to get the MMSI number (if you are going into Canadian waters get it from FCC, and get the VHF license). Both 0182 and 2000 will give the basic information between the radio and chart plotter. That is give the Lat and long of the location of your boat if you send a distress call. It will show on your plotter the location of other DSC boats and distress calls. It will also track positions of other DSC enabled boats.

With the 2000, you will have quicker transfer of data, but that may not be noticable. You can initiate a man over board distress call, with the NMEA 2000 from either the chart plotter or the radio. It will put the chart plotter into MOB mode, and direct you back to the position where MOB button what hit. I am not sure how often this feature will be used if at all.

The data thru the NMEA 2000 backbone is fast and a lot of data which cannot be transfered by NMEA 0183. However--both protocols have their probelms--and some brands may not read the other brands sentenancing.

For example, I had a Furuno GPS, and was using the old Signet displays (these were instruments which are over 20 years old today--but used NMEA 0183) The lat and lon would read, speed, heading etc would read, but closest point of approach would not read. Signet blamed Furuno, Furuno blamed Signet. This same thing can still happen with Lowrance and RayMarine for example on the NMEA 2000 sentencing. So, it is best to stick with a common brand in the electronics. (Theoretically all of the NMEA 2000 sentances and fittings were to be the same--in reality they have not been, but are getting better).
 
The wiring for NMEA 0183 can be annoying. Specifically, the wires on my Icom are incredibly small and difficult to solder and then splint so they don't break. You don't want wiring of this sort to fail right when you need it.

The wiring for my Lowrance equipment has given me no trouble at all. Just remember that it is a terminated buss and you should be OK. Don't do something like attach the fuel flow sensor off the end of the buss and fail to terminate it. (I forget if the connectors would actually allow you do that.)

The components are much more expensive and can be harder to get. But, my LMF-400 can display lat/long should my main display fail.

One other thing with regard to backup GPS: it never really occurred to me that all of our smart phones have GPS and can function as chart plotters. So, for $50, my iPad and my iPhone actually are chart plotters, and the other iPhone will at least give me lat/long. So, we now typically travel with four GPS units and five displays :-) And paper charts and two compasses.

And an 11 year old, so we hardly get time to go more than 20 miles :-)

Mike
 
I had a garmain 200 in the 22. great radio, very clear speaker. much better product then they raymarine radio I had before. nice radio for the money. and yes it has DSC.
 
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