Ghost Nets

C

Cutty Sark

New member
Saw this online and thought it was an interesting video, being a sporty I'm not much of a commercial fishing fan anyway but, I definitly don't like seeing this. I think it's great that some people are trying to do something about it, especially the guy who was a gillnetter. Its nice to see some of those who contribute to the problem trying to solve it.( by the way I have a cabin on Hood Canal and fish there alot so this hits close to home for me)

http://www.opb.org/programs/ofg/videos/ ... Ghost-Nets

Sark
 
One of my First Mate's was a former gillnet fisherman, he referred to them as "Killnetters".

I came across a bad ghost net last summer on one of my favorite dive sites (off Gloucester). There were seals, multiple sharks, large lobster, and lots of other fish caught in the net. I tried to cut free one lobster to no avail....in front of the net with EMT shears I could not get the lobster out! The spines would just catch on every piece of net and it was a challenge to stay out of the net myself. One of my buddies DID get caught but thankfully I was able to get him free. Some weeks later, through the efforts of local divers and boat owners, the net was removed.
 
Sark-

Thanks for the reference to the great video about a tragic problem and some dedicated folks who have the guts and determination to do something about it.

I personally think all fishermen who are serious and spend a lot of time fishing should rally around this and similar projects to protect fish and enhance their habitat.

Personally, I'd like to see gill nets banned, but know that is not a realistic possibility considering the commercial fishing interests and their political clout.

Gary Johnson mentioned a month or two ago on this site that what is really needed to restore the fisheries to their maximum numbers considering the modern state of the oceans, bays, and rivers- would be to simply eliminate the taking of fish for one or two generations of the fish to let their numbers return to their full potential. I suppose some sportfishing catch and release would be OK, but commercial fishing would be devastated, which it probably will anyway in time if something drastic isn't done.

This may all sound crazy to someone living in Alaska or British Columbia, but if you take a big look up the Pacific Coast from San Diego to Seward, you can see the gradual increase in the impact of man's aggressive harvesting of fish and invertebrates for both sport and commercial purposes, along with the impact of greater to lesser human population densities. And that impact is working its way north over time. How far will we let this process go?

I'm certainly no tree-hugging environmental Nazi, but don't we care enough about these things we love to do some things that will give them a chance to survive? There must be some workable middle ground we can all work toward.

Joe. :thup :teeth
 
This is the same reason that I pull lost crab pots at low tide after season and on closed days. This is also a good reason for fish farms. never lost a net at a fish farm. I know the trouble of the sea lice but that can be fixed with location I believe. its time to stop supporting a river fishery with subsidies on our rivers. if you want a fishery on the river then have a troll caught fishier that way we don't have ghost nets and we can cut out the by caught on sturgeon and steelhead. I once read that of all the commercial boats left on the big c, 95% use fishing as extra income. In other words they all have jobs. Its time for these river netters to stop and do something else for a living. Same goes for the netting on lake washington and in front of the locks.
 
Yeah I'm not a fan of gillnetting, my uncle by marriage is a gillnetter and we get into freindly debates every few holiday's about it. I'm a member of PSA ( puget sound anglers) and also think gill netting should be dumped, longlining seems more eco freindly at least. We sportys have to release wild fish, but it's pretty hard to release a dead wild fish out of a gillnet :evil: There are so many issues with commercial fishing in my state it's unreal, from allocation/tribes etc.... to catch reporting, not to mention lost gear that continues to kill our dwindling fish and crab. Then you have a year like this one where the commercial fishery in Alaska had the 4th largest take of the century :shock: ( source-The Reel News) And went over pre season estimates by literally millions of fish. And you wonder why fishing for us is getting tougher. You are right though the commercial guys have alot of clout politically and until Sporty's start to pay attention and stand up for the fish it will most likely continue. I'll get off my soapbox now but it's really frustating to me.

Sark
 
The reality is that gill nets are banned in many areas--but continued to be used in others. I too would like to see them banned all over. I know that Florida has a total ban on Gill Nets, I believe that Lousiania and Texas also have bans.
 
Guess how many commercial fishing licenses are valid for the lower Columbia river? True, not all are used and those that are are primarily for hobby and supplemental income. At the Columbia River Advisory Group meetings these issues are revisited every now and then. So again.... guess how many commercial licenses are valid to be used on the lower Columbia River.....

(answer forthcoming)

C.W.
 
less then a 100 if I remember right. So if its so few why not get rid of them. hell buy them from the holder. Quess how many of the commercial reps on the state board have been ticketed for over limit or keeping sturgeon and steelhead?
 
For no other reason than to be different I will offer a counter point. Human nature makes us want to right the wrongs, especially those that don't gratify our own interest. Are Gill nets totally bad? That question has been asked about every type of net fishery probably since the beginning of time.
My opinion goes to moderation. A lot of folks loose their income if you shut down commercial fisheries of any kind. Is that a good thing, I don't think so.
I have used the idealistic versus realistic analogy before and it sure looks applicable here. Ideally you shut down commercial fisherman and you have more fish. Realistically, it ain't happening!
Ideally all tourist stay home, Alaska don't need your money. Realistically it ain't happening.
Ideally all Babies have the opportunity to be born into the world and grow up to be C-dory owners. Realistically and sadly, It ain't happening!

Are you a realist or an idealist?
Mike
 
If you wish to stop gil nets, join Gary Loomis, PSA (Puget Sound Anglers) and the Costal Conservation Asso. by membership in the CCA.
http://www.joincca.org/.
CCA was the organization that got gil nets banned in the gulf of Mexico and the East Coast. They're coming here if we can get enough local support.
Forrest
 
Alasgun":11jtiyxk said:
some stuff clipped
Ideally all tourist stay home, Alaska don't need your money. Realistically it ain't happening.

Mike
Click to expand...

On our travels through the road sections of mainly middle Alaska noticed they definitely wanted our money, but not us. In most places it was very obvious. This in our before C-Dory days was the main reason for spending more time exploring in B.C, Yukon and the Northwest Territories where we always felt most welcome.

And yes I consider myself more a realest.

Jay
 
I have (1990's) Drift Gillnetted in Cook Inlet & Set Gillnetted in Bristol Bay. I do not recall Ever picking a dead Red or king (that was not spawned out) out of a Gill Net. Nothing Wrong With A Properly Fished Gill Net! Never lost a Net either. In Bristol Bay, More often than not we delivered fish that were Still Flopping to the processers!! :mrgreen: :beer All Fisherman need to work together to promote the Fisheries too bad a few dick weeds either Sport or Commercial is what every one focuses on!
 
There are 670 valid commercial fishing licenses for the lower Columbia River. This is in addition to all of the Indian commercial fishers throughout. That is a whole 'lot of nets in the river, stripping our resource which they export out of state. An article was published a couple years ago that calculated that the average sport fisherman spent $180 for each spring chinook he caught in the Columbia. That is a lot of money going to local grocery, gas, mechanics, marinas, & bait and tackle stores in small and large towns over many miles. How much do the commercial guys spend in the local region? Which is a better return for the taxpayers and owners of this resource? And when sportfishers get caught poaching, the fine can be $184 per fish. We had a case of a commercial gillnetter that was caught with over 200 sturgeon that were too small and was using a net that was over a thousand feet too long and all they did was confiscate his net and fine him $2,000. Once he paid the fine, he got all of his nets back. Enforcing the rules would be a start. So would shooting // thinning the sea lions and commorants and terns that eat millions of smolt each year. C.W.
 
Lots of good points here. Im not totally against commercial fishing, but to wipe out a resource so a "few" can keep their jobs is irresponsible in my opinion. I understand alot of the fish are bred to be caught ( hatchery) in Alaska, we do that here too. But nets catch wild fish along with all the hatchery ones and you can't tell me it doesn't contribute to the problem. I'm not saying I personally have the answers, but I know I've seen some of the abuse of the fish. Nets IMHO should go. But thats just one mans opinion. I respect anyone else's and realize we all wont see eye to eye on this.

Sark
 
The sportfisher/commercial fisher conflict will never end. As a longtime Astorian (since 1973), I can detail the excesses of both sides, and have had my share of face to face confrontations with obstreperous gill netters over ramp access. The good guys massively outnumber the bad guys in the gill net fleet. They understand that gill nets are on the way out, with tangle nets, off-river destination netting (instead of main stem netting), and live box return all pretty much the future for any netting to be done on the river.

Plenty of Oregonians and Washingtonians who want a prime filet of chinook can not afford to sport fish, and their only real option is to buy it fresh, which I do several times a year, at a cost to me, per pound, far lower than what a sport fisher spends, on average.

If netting is eliminated entirely, it will decrease some of the economic and political pressure to maintain runs.

However, as one local said, in reponse to heat he got for a vote on the fish commission to retain a net fishery on the Columbia two years ago: "the problem is not enough fish for everyone who wants them." [paraphrase] When I arrived here in 1973, the sport fishery at the mouth of the Columbia was astounding; so was the commercial harvest.

Many things have changed on the Columbia, all working to reduce the success of returning fish: escapement past the dams and rearing habitat being the biggest villains, with predation by Caspian Terns and sea lions also in the mix. Fighting over which "interest" gets to fish will not change that.

If sports and commercial interests would combine their efforts and exert significant political pressure to deal with the fundamental reasons we do not have as many fish returning, there would be enough fish for most everyone. In the 1970's I heard about the same things from both sides I hear now: basically, this: "I want to catch the last salmon on the Columbia River; screw everybody else."

It is the paradox of the commons.

I'll go hide, now. Please avoid the use of RPG's; they really tear up the garden! :lol:
 
forrest":3f9lesgz said:
If you wish to stop gil nets, join Gary Loomis, PSA (Puget Sound Anglers) and the Costal Conservation Asso. by membership in the CCA.
http://www.joincca.org/.
CCA was the organization that got gil nets banned in the gulf of Mexico and the East Coast. They're coming here if we can get enough local support.
Forrest
Click to expand...

Totally agree. I became a convert (and Life Member) of CCA after Gary came and talked to the Fidalgo chapter of PSA.
 
"to deal with the fundamental reasons we do not have as many fish returning"

Gill netting in a river where the fish have to pass to spawn is a fundamental reason. All the sport caught fish in a year does not equal a week of netting. and Its not just in the big c. the skagit is so full of nets during coho season you can hardly get a boat up river. two years ago the tribes were doing so well that when they reached their limit they asked other tribes to come fish the river and get even more fish, why? because the local tribe is the processor. Money money money, and what happen to the sport guy( who brings in far more money to the locals per lbs) we got our season shut down because of low returns up river?????? all this happens while two listed fish, kings and wild steelhead are passing thru. I buy farmed fish as do most people whether they know it or not. I was in a local big name restaurant that listed "fresh wild steelhead" a listed fish. but at the bottom it says in small print "can be substituted depending on availability" so you are not getting it any how and you are eating frozen or farmed fish any how. 80% of fishs eaten in american is farmed.

And as I climb down to load my Rpg :wink: Its not commercial fishing that I am against. its gill netting the rivers and sound. where we have listed fish passing thru. lets have a troll fishery where we can release those wild fish with out ever taking them out of the water, the way I have to here in the sound, that way the wild fish ( if there really is such a thing, no) can survive.
 
AstoriaDave":3iktouo1 said:
<stuff clipped>

In the 1970's I heard about the same things from both sides I hear now: basically, this: "I want to catch the last salmon on the Columbia River; screw everybody else."
Click to expand...

Bingo! We've come to this conclusion before, sadly.

Substitute West Coast for the Columbia and it applies to the greater problem, or "fish" for salmon and "world" for the river, and we get a view of the larger problem. Although some folks do have the fishery and salmon foremost in mind, many others just want to get their share before they're gone.

How many people have a boat and would keep it if all fishing were banned?

Some folks have a boat just to cash in on the resource and wouldn't have it unless they could. This, despite the fact that the cost per fish is not economically reasonable, and it would be cheaper just to go to the market and buy them.

This is a very sad realization and one without too much room for optimism.

Joe.
 
Sea Wolf: your training and experience as a teacher are showing. :wink: :) A fellow sufferer, here. :smiled Thirty four years of watching this happen on the Columbia, and we are still where we were then, but now with very small numbers of fish.

Selective fishing, such as described in my earlier post, is the only method which will survive the various listings of salmon as threatened and endangered species.

I agree a troll fishery is much more selective. Tangle nets are not gill nets, and they also would fit the description of a highly selective fishery, if they are used properly.
 
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