Getting Balance Right the First Time

Mike R wrote:
Personally I've not yet encountered a need or desire for trim tabs on my 22', not for side-to-side trimming, running with a cross wind, nor for slow planing or keeping the bow down. BUT, the boat is still very new so perhaps someday I will, but I remain a skeptic for now.
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Mike, until you try a boat with and without trim tabs and the Permatrim you won't see or know the advantage. My first 22 had neither. My neighbor had a light 22, and he first added tabs--I thought what the heck--my boat runs fine. I rode in his boat--and it was better, especially going into chop. Then he added the Permatrim--again--"he is out of his gourd"--Then I rode with him again....FF to my 25--came with trim tabs, and good--then I added the Permatrim--better.

The boats will do fine with out the tabs and Permatrim--they will just run better with both. Just my opinion.

I agree with trying and balancing the boat as best as possible with movable items to achieve as close to "ideal" as possible. But then there are always spoilers. My first ride in my son's Cruise Ship 25 ( door and aisle offset to Starboard) out in the chop--his wife and daughter were in the aisle, plus he is in the 240# category at the helm-- I am scooting out as far outboard as I can in the forward dinette seat to try and balance the boat--no one else seems to notice we are leaning about 10 degrees to starboard even on a plane. It seems a lot of folks are not sensitive to the feeling of the boat listing or of the balance of the boat. (The boat handled far better once we got everyone "centered".)

Mark--my current 22 still has the plastic" Doel fin"" the boat came with--I think the Permatrim is better, but it was out of stock when I was first "re outfitting" the boat--and I just never changed it...

Bob Wilkinson I got a laugh out of the Seakeeper! The Seakeeper 3 is due out in 2017 spring. (Boats 30 to 39 feet) 550 lbs :26.8 L x 27.0 W x 22.5 H (inches) and requires 1000 watts, but treated at 85 amps 12 volts. (Should be installed in the aft part of the boat, in the centerline)...cost only $26,900, plus installation. Granted they are really impressive gyroscopes! However, it dampens roll, but I believe the trim tabs would still be desirable for both lateral trim and fore and aft trim in many conditions...

If interested in stabilizers this link is a comprehensive read. Video foundhere

There is more damping in roll than in pitch (because that is the way the gyro is designed). The amount of roll is decreased by 50% (from 12* to 6*. But there is still some roll, less snappy however.
 
Nancy and Bud":2edh2d4d said:
Sounds like a good plan to me. Bringing along a couple of cases of beer for "
trim ballast" would also work. :lol:

An aside: I have enjoyed this site because the moderation isn't heavy handed and allows for interesting responses that may be somewhat OT. These threads allow members to get to know each other better, give an understanding of what members think are humorous and sometimes offer information that wouldn't have otherwise surfaced.
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Agree 100% on the off topic. All good, just trying to get as much input from experienced owners as possible.
 
I just got my Optmia batteries...and they are really heavy....100 lbs.. They will be mounted just behind the porta pot...I made a compartment in that space and they fit easily....now I need to rewire the boat...each motor to run off a single battery... The major reason I am doing all this is to remove the 80 lbs.of weight in the starboard aft locker... should balance the boat well .

Underway the auto trim does a super job of keeping the boat leve,l but sitting at the dock it always lists to starboard..

Joel
SEA3PO
 
What makes this real thrilling is while on the Delta Cruise I broke my back...tripped on some broken sidewalk...had surgery in September and while it does not hurt now.... moving and lifting 50 pound batteries may be thrilling.

Joel
SEA3PO
 
What Dr. Bob said.

There is no choice to be made here. One does not have to choose between trim tabs and permatrim. Permatrim will raise your stern underway a bit, and will make more use of the engines trim/tilt to adjust the attitude of the bow.

Trim tabs will affect the bow's attitude as well, but will also balance out your boat side to side. I'd counter those voices stating that they don't have them, never tried them and don't need them with all of the resounding concurrence among those of us who do use them that they are indispensable. It's exactly the thing that will make up for not quite perfect balance and moving passengers.

They work very well together. In fact, you will have the most possible control of trim and list with both.

The one downside to having all of this control is the potential to input the controls improperly. Improper control input, it could be argued, is responsible for most non-weather related boat mishaps, and one could argue is even responsible for the weather related mishaps in situations where weather did not exceed the boat's capabilities. So yes, this extra control means that if you are in heavy following seas, or big swells and you need to get your bow up and you accidentally trim your bow down you can end up developing substantial bowsteer, which can lead to broach, pitchpole, or at its best just an unwelcome thrill. When running on smooth water with too wet a hull (bow trimmed too far down) things can get squirrely as well. I've had a few rookies running my boat end up flirting with an unscheduled "Crazy Ivan" because they caught a chine while on a slow plane and it spun the boat a bit.

But, to me the best thing is to invest in the added ability to control and be vigilant about learning to use these controls properly to give your boat the most capability.

Other than that, balancing the boat with mains and a kicker can be done with batteries on the opposite side of the kicker, most likely in the lazarette.

Enjoy your new boat! I really really almost got a new 19 when I was shopping as well, for the same reasons you stated. But the family likes the occasional sleepover, and we really needed the extra space. 9/10 trips I take are solo fishing trips and the 19 would be great, although you can't really go wrong with 22 angler either.
 
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