Get to work on this!
- Thread starter bcassal
- Start date
DuckDogTitus
New member
love it, I got some work to do 
She is fast with the figure 8's--
Many folks would say that the way she started the cleating process is not correct. There should be an "open" loop. So that the line passes around both legs and under both horns of the cleat before figure "8" she only goes around one part of the base (as first picture). This puts an abnormal strain on the horns as the line goes around.
The last two photos show the proper way to cleat a dock line. Around both legs and under each horn once, then the figure 8 a couple of times and then jam it you wish
On the other hand, you do not cross over the line from the boat--that is don't make a closed loop, which is two passes around the leg before starting the figure 8.
This is incorrect and what is shown in the video clip
This is proper with a turn around both legs and under both horns before the figure 8
This is after the first figure 8, then another 8 to finish with a jammed loop
for mooring.
Many folks would say that the way she started the cleating process is not correct. There should be an "open" loop. So that the line passes around both legs and under both horns of the cleat before figure "8" she only goes around one part of the base (as first picture). This puts an abnormal strain on the horns as the line goes around.
The last two photos show the proper way to cleat a dock line. Around both legs and under each horn once, then the figure 8 a couple of times and then jam it you wish
On the other hand, you do not cross over the line from the boat--that is don't make a closed loop, which is two passes around the leg before starting the figure 8.
This is incorrect and what is shown in the video clip
This is proper with a turn around both legs and under both horns before the figure 8
This is after the first figure 8, then another 8 to finish with a jammed loop
for mooring.
My personal favorite method with which to find fault is the ones who do many, many figure 8s and then several half hitches on top of it all with the theory that the extra knots are somehow "better". One total complete figure 8 as shown in Bob's photo and one half hitch is all you need. The extra knots just add extra time to tie and untie.
That seems like a separate problem. E.g. of the water level is changing, one wants to tie with spring lines but you still want the lines to be well attached at the cleats. Long spring lines from the bow and stern can keep the boat from moving for an aft but will still allow significant up and down motion in the event of water level changes. With properly tied spring lines, one can accommodate changes in water level up to 2 feet without much problem so long as the breast lines are not too tight. Allowing the lines to slip at the attachment to the cleat might create more problems than it solves - especially in a wind storm.Bill K":3gog11np said:
I was wondering how much the level of Lake Erie changes due to wind and just took some time to look it up. WOW - it can change a lot more than can be accommodated with spring lines! Up to 9' of change can happen in relatively short period of time which just 8-10kt winds - see the graph of an unusual event in Oct 2011 at this page - http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/OhioGeologic ... fault.aspx.
I'm not sure what I would do if I had to tie to a fixed dock in Lake Erie. Bob- what would you do?
I'm not sure what I would do if I had to tie to a fixed dock in Lake Erie. Bob- what would you do?
Bill K":3da1ttt4 said:
That is correct, if you put the closed loop, that is cross over the line which comes from the boat--it is likely to Jam, and there is an increased chance of abrasion on the line at that point. The open loop, as illustrated in photos 2 and 3 will not jam. If you put one more turn around the base, it can jam.
As to one figure of 8 and a lock or two figure of 8's it depends on the situation. Normal docking, I will do one and a lock, if we have strong winds, like hurricanes, we put two and then a slip lock.
The lock with a single figure of 8 in heavy winds can bind, and make it very difficult to get free. On a critical line, on the racing sail boats, we never put a lock on--they do jam, and then you are in a pickle if you have to do a sudden tack. On the other hand, we rarely put figure of 8's on the cleats, because we were constantly adjusting the sheets.
I can only speak to Lake Superior, but the fluctuation I'm familiar with there we call a "seiche." If I remember correctly it's caused by pressure differential (but I have not looked it up lately, so it may be something else). Also, wind can sometimes cause a level change. Dramatic changes don't happen very often though from what I remember; I one time remember something like 4' and we were shocked. Quite a number of boats were hanging by their lines!
Many marinas tend to have floating docks now, but not so much for tides as because they remove them from the water (or sometimes float them out to the middle of a bay and tie them up there) in fall so that they don't get broken up by ice movement. Then in spring they go back in. Always a great moment
Sunbeam
PS: After writing this I had to go look up "seiche." Wikipedia actually called out the one I remember, which was in July, 1995 (I just happen to remember the year because of other things). So I guess it was unique! Here is an excerpt:
Lake seiches can occur very quickly: on July 13, 1995, a big seiche on Lake Superior caused the water level to fall and then rise again by three feet (one meter) within fifteen minutes, leaving some boats hanging from the docks on their mooring lines when the water retreated.[7] The same storm system that caused the 1995 seiche on Lake Superior produced a similar effect in Lake Huron, in which the water level at Port Huron changed by six feet (1.8 m) over two hours.[8] On Lake Michigan, eight fishermen were swept away and drowned when a 10-foot seiche hit the Chicago waterfront on June 26, 1954.[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seiche
Many marinas tend to have floating docks now, but not so much for tides as because they remove them from the water (or sometimes float them out to the middle of a bay and tie them up there) in fall so that they don't get broken up by ice movement. Then in spring they go back in. Always a great moment
Sunbeam
PS: After writing this I had to go look up "seiche." Wikipedia actually called out the one I remember, which was in July, 1995 (I just happen to remember the year because of other things). So I guess it was unique! Here is an excerpt:
Lake seiches can occur very quickly: on July 13, 1995, a big seiche on Lake Superior caused the water level to fall and then rise again by three feet (one meter) within fifteen minutes, leaving some boats hanging from the docks on their mooring lines when the water retreated.[7] The same storm system that caused the 1995 seiche on Lake Superior produced a similar effect in Lake Huron, in which the water level at Port Huron changed by six feet (1.8 m) over two hours.[8] On Lake Michigan, eight fishermen were swept away and drowned when a 10-foot seiche hit the Chicago waterfront on June 26, 1954.[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seiche
Robert H. Wilkinson
New member
Bob, thanks for the demonstration and explanation. I learned tying off to a cleat the way you suggest but I did not understand how doing it wrong put extra strain on the horns. A picture is worth a thousand words!
Bill, years ago I had my Campion berthed at Port Rowan(Long Point inner bay). Some of the locals told me about coming to the marina one day and all their boats were grounded!! Apparently the water had all blown over to Erie or somewhere!! Didn't see that myself but the day I pulled my boat(late Oct.) my outdrive was in the dirt. Trimmed it up and drove to ramp with the kicker. Boat out of Port Dover now, waters rougher but at least its deeper!
Regards, Rob
Bill, years ago I had my Campion berthed at Port Rowan(Long Point inner bay). Some of the locals told me about coming to the marina one day and all their boats were grounded!! Apparently the water had all blown over to Erie or somewhere!! Didn't see that myself but the day I pulled my boat(late Oct.) my outdrive was in the dirt. Trimmed it up and drove to ramp with the kicker. Boat out of Port Dover now, waters rougher but at least its deeper!
Regards, Rob