Fuel Line issue

T

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Hello Cbrats,

I need a little bit of help/advice. I was motoring around Lake Tahoe for about two hours yesterday and one of the twin 50's puttered out. The primer bulb was soft and appeared to have air inside. I was unable to firm the bulb after ten minutes of pumping. I switched from starboard to port fuel tank and that didn't fix the problem either. As I was motoring back to the courtesy dock , the other engine puttered out. Same issue, air in that motors primer bulb. Had to get a tow!

I've been working non stop on the boat before yesterday's trial run. Siphoned 90% of old gas from both tanks, new fuel/water separator, new fuel filters, new gas, new bulbs. Today the boat is in the side yard and I can't identify the issue. Fuel filters seem fine, installed new fuel/water separator. I am not able to get the bulbs to firm up after pumping for 10 minutes.

One of the motors did run for about three mintues today then puttered out. Soft bulb.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Mark
 
The fuel pickups in the tanks have probably deteriorated/ disintegrated. Also, the anti-siphon valves on the tanks may be in need of replacement. Have you checked to see if the vent hoses have collapsed?
 
Thanks Kevinnuckles.

Problem identified and possibly fixed. When I siphoned old gas from the tanks to almost empty, air replaced fuel in the lines. Both engines ran for about two hours and the problem started when I changed from starboard to port fuel tank on the lake. Air was in that line and created an air pocket in the water/fuel separator. The port fuel line is a long run = lot of air.

Purging the air required that I remove the fuel/water seperator several times and prime with fuel to the top. After priming fuel/water separator, I removed the fuel connector (plactic piece that connects fuel line to engine) and held the fuel primer bulb verticle (thanks you tube). Holding the fuel line vertical, I purged more air out until there was a steady stream of gas coming out of the fuel line. I replaced the fuel connector and reconnected to engine. Both fuel primer bulbs are solid and engines are running.

I was close to pulling the fuel tanks. Fingers crossed this was the problem.

Mark
 
Well, back to square one. Fired up the engines at the boat ramp today, both engines puttered out after five minutes. So far, I've changed the fuel filters, primer bulbs, new gas, new water/fuel separator. After priming water/fuel separator, engines run for 5-10 minutes and putter out.

Looks like I need to dig a little deeper. Should I remove fuel tanks? Can anti- siphon valve and fuel pickups be replaced without removing tanks? It's the start of boating season in Tahoe and most mechanics are backed up for weeks. Really hoping the Cbrats can come to the rescue :)

Mark
 
No need to remove tanks. ASV's are on top of the tanks and in the front. They connect to the fitting that holds the fuel pickups. You should be able to look
at the side of the tanks in the bilge area and determine if you have Moeller tanks. If so, you can view the parts at the Moeller web-site and you may be able to purchase them locally. Remember to use some Permatex when you installl the new ASV's into the pickups and double clamp your fuel lines. Be extremely careful when removing old pickups from the tanks. Take your time and maybe use some penetrating oil to loosen the fittings.
 
I disconnected the starboard fuel tank line from the switch and blew air back into the starboard tank through the fuel line. I was expecting airbubbles in the tank but nothing. Tank is 1/3 full. Appears the fuel pickup tube broke and is sitting at the bottom of the fuel tank?

How does one remove a broken fuel pickup line from a tank? Tanks are Mueller.

I'm a little aprehensive about this project because of gas vapor, fuel etc. One spark is all it takes.

Mark
 
Thumbsup5":1ue5oys7 said:
I disconnected the starboard fuel tank line from the switch and blew air back into the starboard tank through the fuel line. I was expecting airbubbles in the tank but nothing. Tank is 1/3 full. Appears the fuel pickup tube broke and is sitting at the bottom of the fuel tank?

How does one remove a broken fuel pickup line from a tank? Tanks are Mueller.

I'm a little aprehensive about this project because of gas vapor, fuel etc. One spark is all it takes.

Mark
Click to expand...

Siphon out as much fuel as you can. Remove the inlet hose. Let the tank sit until all the remaining fuel evaporates.

Or, you can use non-ferrous tools.

Do the work on a humid day.
 
To fix the fuel issue problem, I intend to replace every part in the fuel system from fuel pickups to fuel connectors on the twin 50hp Yamaha's. Hoping a few awesome Cbrats can review my order list and add or subtract anything they feel necessary. Boat is 17 years old and this project is long overdue.

Order List:
1. Moeller fuel pickups (x2)
2. Moeller Anti-Siphon Valves (x2)
3. Moeller Marine "Fuel Tank Three-Way Valve (3/8", Brass)
4. Moeller Brass Hose Fitting, 90 Degree Elbow, 3/8" Barb x 3/8" Male Pipe (x2)
5. Moeller Brass Hose Fitting, Adapter, 3/8" Barb x 3/8" NPT Male Pipe
6. New 3/8" fuel line
7. Yamaha Outboard MAR-FUELF-IL-TR 10-Micron Fuel Water Separating Filter 90GPH

Questions:
1. Fitting size for fuel pickup is 3/8" x 3/8" NPT or 3/8" x 1/4" NPT?
2. Fitting size for Anti Siphon Valves is 3/8" x 3/8" NPT or 3/8" x 1/4" NPT?
3. Fuel line - flexible or firm? West Marine has 3/8" gray flexible fuel line and firm black. Not sure if flexible or firm fuel line is best for this application.
4. A lot of talk about Racor Fuel Water Separator. Should I change from Yamaha listed above in #7? Yamaha Water Seperator is sealed, no water trap to drain.
5. Fitting sealant? Thread tape? I have 16 oz of Permatex 80633 Thread Sealant with PTFE

As always, everyone's help and advice is so appreciated.

:love Cbrats

Mark :thup
 
Here are the flexible fuel pickup lines I used on our 2003 22ft cruiser: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QJ7O04U?ps ... ct_details You don't have to pull the tanks to install them. For what it's worth, the ones I removed, after 19 years of use, were still flexible, and in good shape. If I'd have known how good they looked before buying replacements, I would have left them alone.

You'll save yourself a lot of time and trouble if you simply abandon-in-place the broken off portions of the old pickups. They aren't going to hurt anything sitting in the bottom of the tanks.
 
Hi,

Here is what I did

Flexible in tank fuel pickup is 3/8 NPT X 1/4 NPT.
Do not replace the anti siphon valves, remove them from the tanks. The primer bulb already has an anti-siphon valve.
Order two 1/4 male NPT X 5/16 hose barb fittings. These screw into the flexible fuel tank pick up fittings.
Buy 5/16" diameter A1-15 black fuel hose. Expensive, but stands up to ethanol gas and is Coast Guard rated.
The fuel from the tanks go through an inline water/fuel separator. Racor 10 micron is the standard. Use the type where the clear bowl is at the bottom of the filter element. This way you can see water and drain it before it becomes a problem.
Only use good quality hose clamps. Minimum 304 stainless. Watch out for the cheaper ones that have stainless bands and metal screws.

Once you get this set up, it should be bulletproof.
 
For the thread sealant. I have used these two products with zero problems.

Gasoila soft set thread sealant

Permatex Aviation 80019 gasket sealant
 
You'll save yourself a lot of time and trouble if you simply abandon-in-place the broken off portions of the old pickups. They aren't going to hurt anything sitting in the bottom of the tanks.
Click to expand...

Thanks Almas, makes sense. It's possible existing pickups are still intact. Will order two from the link you provided in the event current pickups are bad. Did you order the 22" pickups? Did you have to modify, cut 45 degree angle on bottom of pickup? Do I need screens at the bottom of the fuel pickup?

Flashyfish - great information, thanks. I ordered:
1. 25' 5/16 Fuel Line Hose Marine Rubber 25FT Type A1-15 SAE J1527
2. Brass Hose Barb Fittings, 5/16" Barb x 1/4" Male NPT, Hose Barb Male Thread

Any suggestions where I can find good, quality hose clamps? Seems like most of them have metal screws. I purchased clamps from West Marine with metal screws. They were fuel clamps. Factory clamps are a clean band but I don't know where to purchase those bands and tool to install.

Mark :thup
 
You can buy a 10 pack of hose clamps from Amazon

All stainless steel mini fuel line pipe hose clamp clip
13mm-15mm size
304:stainless.

These clamps apply pressure equally all the way around the hose and do not cut the hose jacket.
 
The smooth factory crimped fuel hose bands are called an Otiker clamp. You need the bands and crimping tool to do it right. The stainless bands I referenced use a 7mm socket or flathead screwdriver to tighten. Nice clean installation and no leaks or corrosion.
 
Ordered two 10 packs of high quality 13-15mm 304 stainless fuel clamps on Amazon. West Marine fuel clamps are going back, they cut the fuel jacket. Thank you Flashyfish and Almas! Project is coming together :)

Mark
 
ThumbsUp":1hmjg4ba said:
Ordered two 10 packs of high quality 13-15mm 304 stainless fuel clamps on Amazon. West Marine fuel clamps are going back, they cut the fuel jacket. Thank you Flashyfish and Almas! Project is coming together :)

Mark
Click to expand...

Don't over tighten them :thup :wink: :mrgreen:
 
Tsturm, good point - hard to know when to stop cranking. Running new fuel lines and using Oetiker clamps.

Great shots in your photo album! I noticed you mounted the water/fuel separator on the stbd side splash well, above fuel tanks. Did you remove anti-siphon valves? My water/fuel separator is located down low, between the tanks. If i remove ASV's from fuel pickups, need to move separator above fuel tanks.
 
Broken_fuel_pickups.thumb.jpg

Starboard_tank_threads.thumb.jpg

Broken fuel pickups. I used penetrating oil for several days on the starboard fuel pickup removal and it was still a bear to remove and threads are damaged. Can the tank be salvaged or would it be best to install new tanks?
 
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