From E.Q. - Possible status change

It seems like EQ Marine is EXACTLY what C-Dory needs. Some one with the skill and dedication to correct all the loose ends they ignore as the boat leaves the factory! I still find these annoyances over a year after taking delivery. It is getting harder and harder to be supportive of these people as they do not-so-bright stuff.

Lots of us were in customer oriented businesses and these things are pretty clear to us. Why is it not clear to them?
 
Here's a copy of a letter I sent to Rich Reynolds at richreynolds@c-dory.com (hopefully it is a valid address.)

Rich,

Let me tell you a story about Les. I was at the '06 Seattle Boat Show, and Les was there at the C-Dory booth. He spent over an hour with me discussing in detail and with no attempt to gloss over any shortcomings (very few) in the Tom Cat. I was also considering the Ranger Tug, as well as several aluminum boats, at that time. When my wife and I decided to buy a Tom Cat, we went to Les. That is when I found out that even back when he was talking to me about the virtues of the Tom Cat he knew he could not sell me one. That is the kind of loyalty and integrity money cannot buy.

My boat is going into EQ at the end of this month to have Les perform several of his incredibly well-thought-out modifications. As far as I am concerned, Les is --the-- C-Dory dealer for this corner of the PNW. I wish I could have bought my boat from him, but I was not able to. But I am going to give him as much business as I can, because he knows how to take care of his customers.

If and when the time comes to replace my Tom Cat, the first place I am going to look is EQ Marine. I hope that C-Dory will be represented there, but if not, it is unlikely that I would buy another C-Dory.

Warren Keuffel
Anacortes
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Warren
 
Here's what I sent to Rich

Rich,

I am looking at trading up to a larger boat in the future. I bought by current 22' CD from the factory in 2002 and was thinking that my next boat would be a TomCat 255. While I know Les Lampman no longer deals in Tomcats, I would still want to use him for service after delivery. If EQ is cut out of C-Dory domain, it's highly unlikely that I'll ever purchase a C-Dory boat again. I sincerely hope that C-Dory marine continues to support Les to the same extent that he has supported AND BUILT the brand in the past. Anything less would make me wonder what the heck you guys are thinking. Seems like cutting off your leg to me.

With best regards,
Roger
 
I cannot fanthom many of the apparent decisions coming out of the C-Dory management these days.

The lack of genuine concern regarding quality control is truly disheartening, and is a continuing problem.

If C-Dory cannot understand and value the integrity, service, and reputation building that has been a trademark of Les and EQ Marine, they are on the road to destroying their own network of business friends and allies.

It's time they reconsidered their arrogant approach to management of this important production facility and the community that supports it.

Joe.
 
It is all your fault Les. If you would quit doing the best job for all with their C-Dorys than any other dealer you would not have this problem, Shame on you. Go fishing a few days with your Dad and then everyone would quit trying to do all their C-Dory business with you.

For all our sake, don't quit. You are only one of the few bright lights left in this 21st Century.
 
It is sad to watch this. I am committed to buying a C-Dory 22 in the next 12-24 months, this type of stuff will define if it is new or used. EQ sounds like a place I would be happy to travel quite some distance to get a boat from, customer service is everything for this 50+ year old. For me, the C-Dory factory is in competition with the used boats of the same name, as much if not more than other boat manufacturers. It's clear they don't get it, they have to be getting better, not sliding. Hopefully these supportive letters will help them understand. A 29 is not the answer, supporting the core business is. In 5 years it will be a Tom Cat, again, same issues.
 
First of all , I feel honored to be mentioned with Les [ thanks Iggy] . He and I communicate on some of the issues that concern C Dory customers and dealers .Wefings tries very hard to be a good dealer , and Les certainly sets the bar . Its a shame what has transpired at this point , and I do think with a quick reality check it could be brought back to a situation that we could all feel good about . Unfortunatly there is nobody listening at the factory ,or so it seems . If there is no one patient enough at C Dory to get through a slow economic period in an intelligent manor , ultimatley it could signal the demise of a great era of C Dory boats . Packing new dealers [inexperienced] boat dealerships with C Dorys because the core dealers are not selling [ and are smart enough not to overload their inventories] is a sure way to devalue the product, the service , and ultimately the brand . I think there are a finite amount of C Dory people out there. You dont want to leave anybody out , but you cant make them out of thin air either . It will never be a Bayliner [thank god] and to run the factory with Bayliner mentality is a real mistake . C Dory has seemingly forgotten what "brought them to the dance" as one of my other manufacturers that I deal with just realized . They brought back a model and style of boat that is very simple ,and put them on the map . It is much more affordable, and I think it was the right thing to do . Time will tell .
We will hang in there and see what happens .
Thanks for listening
Marc
 
Hi Les and Kathy.
Thank you again for the great purchase experience of my new Angler back in April of 2006. I could not be happier with the service and help that you provided on purchase. I love my name plate, which only comes from your dealership.

I drove a long ways to take delivery. I may have even passed a few other dealers. I would recommend to any one interested in the c-dory boat to contact E.Q. marine.

So if C-Dory thinks they can do better else where, I will provide the pistol so they can shoot themselves in the foot. If I were in the market for another c-dory E. Q. marine is my only choice.

1tuberider
 
I'm a newbe around here but have been ease dropping on the site for around a year. I purchased my first C Dory about 6 months ago. My first thought was C Dory has developed a cult following through the C Brats Group similiar to what Harley Davidson did years ago when they were struggling. The little Mom and Pop HD dealers were the one's that kept Harley afloat during the lean years. When the popularity of HD arose again the little mom and pop dealers were treated the same way that it seems CD is treating EB Marine and probably others. According to some who seem to be in the know the boating market may be going into a decline. I think CD is making a poor decision based on this. My local dealer Big Boys Marine doesn't seem to anxious to sell CD's I think this is largely attributed to dealership issues' What CD may not understand is had I not seen a CD in this little mom and pop dealer here on the east coast I probably would have never known such a boat exists.
 
I have sent my endorsment of Les to Mr. Reynolds. While there are several fine dealers out there, including obviously Wefings and Sportcraft, Les does indeed set the bar. I can't help but believe that C-Dory needs Les much more than Les needs them. "What fools these mortals be"!
 
Les,

Your posts on the C-Brat sites are among my favorites. We look forward to many more years of your wisdom.

C-Dory should be attempting copy the class and quality you bring to the pleasure boating industry.

Jim & Becky
 
Hmmm ... some interesting thoughts here (Marvin's comparison with Harley marketing, etc.). It also give me an idea for a new C-Dory "look." Maybe black leather PFD's with all sorts of neat-o little patches, and pins! The guys can grow beards (but only on the weekends) and the women can start wearing black leather halter tops! (Sandy's birthday is next week - and I Finally have an idea for a present!) I think we might really be on to something here; but then again maybe my BMW motorcycle riding mentality just doesn't get it.

On a somewhat more serious note - C-Dory Inc. may have simply succumbed to an American manufacturing model. Bigger is Better. They may have been uncomfortable(greedy?) with limited market share, and thought that building a 100+ quality boats a year (with BUYERS waiting MONTHS for their product...) was not as good as building 200-300(?) boats a year and whipping dealers into taking more product. C-Dory's for the World! ...maybe not.

In a cooling economy (not to mention significantly increasing fuel prices) folks at C-Dory Inc. may have made some bad judgements in the strategic planning realm. They bet (spent...) on expansion and the acquisition of a larger production capacity, and the sales' reality may be falling a little short of plans. Look at the overfilled lots of recreational boats, RV's, car/trucks, etc. Things are slowing economically (inspiteof economic reports to the contrary...) and a lot of it seems to center around Oil. Simply-put: if you're stretched financially, commuting to work (if you still have a job) is going to largely overtake recreational boating on the weekend. Sad-but-true: The Times, They are a Changing.

...just some thoughts.

Casey
C-Dory Naknek
Lake Montezuma, AZ
 
I sent my note to Rich last night and I was very nice Les. I closed my correspondence as follows " every person I have talked too that purchased a C-Dory from EQ or relied on EQ for post purchase support can tell a similar story as mine. Hundreds of satisfied EQ customers indirectly sell your boats. Had their experience been anything less than stellar, the tone of C-Brats would be different as would your sales numbers. In fact, were it not for Les, (and his positive affect on Tyboo and DaNag) I'm almost certain there would not be a C-Brats site which arguably, could be considered one of C-Dory's most valuable assets. I'm convinced there is no one person currently associated with C-Dory that is more credible and responsible for the success of the C-Dory line than Les Lampman. So, what happened? Fairly answering questions like what prompted EQ to take on the Rosborough line and what are the underlying reasons why C-Dory is upset should reveal the appropriate course of action. Good Luck. "
 
When we downsized from a Tolly (just in time !!) we looked at many boats and if it had not been for the personal attention and hours of REAL, in depth discussion of the pro's and con's with Les which obviously came from his years of personal knowledge of the product, we probably would not have chosen to buy a NEW CD.
Most other dealers we went to were more reminiscent of a used car lot.

We love our boat and it does exactly what he said it would and would not do, so in future we will continue to vote with our $$ and go where we can get service and facts (And personalized namplates !!)

Merv & Kathy
 
Sea Wolf said:
I cannot fanthom many of the apparent decisions coming out of the C-Dory management these days.

The lack of genuine concern regarding quality control is truly disheartening, and is a continuing problem.

If C-Dory cannot understand and value the integrity, service, and reputation building that has been a trademark of Les and EQ Marine, they are on the road to destroying their own network of business friends and allies.

It's time they reconsidered their arrogant approach to management of this important production facility and the community that supports it.

Joe.
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Hello, I am the founder and former President of the original C-Dory company. I have been a very interested observer of how the new company and its owners have been doing. As an industry insider I hear about much of what is happening behind the scene. I think Joe has hit the nail squarely on the head.

In my opinion the factory has had a “dam the quality full speed ahead” attitude towards production since the day Scot Reynolds bought the C-Dory Line. Any boat builder that’s been around awhile knows you need to be able to weather out a big slump in sales to survive long term. Scot has only been interested in expanding and has not prepared the company to survive long term.

The company has been unable for the past several years to meet its financial obligations in a timely manner, and now with a slowing economy and a slump in boat sales the company is struggling to survive. I’m afraid that the company is approaching or has passed the event horizon and is spiraling ever faster and deeper into an economic rat hole it can’t escape no mater how many boats it builds.

Forcing a dealer to take more boats than the market will absorb is very short sighted. The factory must be able to reduce its output when market forces demand it. Perhaps instead of bullying the dealers to sell more boats, the factory should slow down and work on quality control.

Mark Toland
 
OK, I said I wouldn't but Joe has invited me. I am sorry this is so long but it has to be. Disclaimer - these are just my opinions, I have no inside information, it is mostly deductions based on observations. I invite anybody from C-Dory to respond if anything I say here is inaccurate.

When I first tried to explain this, a lot of folks said "cut them some slack, lets just see how it works out" so I backed off. I think you can see now, and I think this is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. You had to know how GOOD the "old" C-Dory was to know just how BAD the current decisions of the "new" management are for customers. Every decision C-Dory has made since the move to Auburn has been wrong in my opinion - in this case "wrong" meaning bad for customers, but I am afraid it will turn out bad for the company as well.

C-Dory has always had dealers of course, but factory sales, factory service and especially the factory commitment to warranty repairs were the cornerstone of the business philosophy of the "old" C-Dory. We bought both our CD22 and our CD25 from the factory. The CD22 was built in Kent (2003), the CD25 in Auburn (2005). On the CD25 the factory cheerfully built custom mods such as the under galley floor that David designed - Andrew (now at Ranger) said "no problem!" and made it happen. On both boats factory personnel serviced the outboards, factory guys did glass repairs, and factory guys fixed any other problem, which included Wallas stoves that didn't work (by replacing it), self-priming water pumps that didn't self-prime, and a host of other little irritants. No arguments - they just made it right. C-Dory did the same for customers who had purchased boats from their dealers, up to and including replacing at least one entire boat when they could not solve the water intrusion problem.

In 2003 and 2004 and part of 2005 you could not find a better company in America - a great product and a company that stood solidly behind it. This absolute commitment to the customer, the personal relationship with the customer, was what set the "old" C-Dory apart from all others - it is the MAIN reason so many of us could be such enthusiastic cheerleaders for the company.

I guessed in 2005 that there might be some problems on the horizon. They had a big 2005 SBS, sold a lot of boats. The move to Auburn had happened, and they were really straining at the factory while our CD25 was being built. You had to be there to see it I guess to understand. The craftsmen from Kent had substantially been replaced by a nameless, faceless army of production workers, but there were still a lot of familiar faces around, and Andrew took great care of us. I went there many times to take pix, but the sign on the wall that said "Saturday is a mandatory work day for all production personnel" seemed to be a bad omen. Still, Jeff Messmer took great care of his customers all around the country, and we still got a great boat with very few QC issues as far as we know. I just wondered what the increased production level held in store for owners.

The wheels started coming off in my opinion in the fall of 2005 and all of 2006. It was harder and harder to get service or repair appointments, and when you had them, the work was frequently not done when promised. The reason I am guessing was that they had to pull production personnel away from production to do the service and repairs. This created a real strain for both people like Rick Ristine who did our Honda service and us. The people at C-Dory were quality people but the system created this friction. It was really an untenable situation.

I had several conversations with Jeff Messmer then - I told him that C-Dory really needed to either establish a dedicated service and repair facility or get out of the service and repair business entirely. I was obviously suggesting the former not the latter. I told him service was not good, and there was a strong undercurrent of discontent among owners which of course was not apparent on the surface here because nobody wanted to openly knock C-Dory -but there were LOTS of PMs flying around about it.

Then C-Dory stunned us all by announcing they were getting out of the direct factory sales, service and repair business entirely. This of course orphaned us and a lot of other people including many from across the country who elected to travel to Auburn for the benefits of the direct factory relationship. Lake Union Sea Ray became "our" replacement dealer - and to their credit we have had good service from them. Jeff had once told me I think that part of the deal with LUSR was that LUSR would become a Honda dealer - LUSR never did and this remains a huge problem for us.

Then the "Lathamization" of C-Dory really started to become apparent in earnest. I don't know Tom Latham and I don't dislike him, but the impact he has had on C-Dory has been immense and entirely negative. For those of you who don't know, Tom Latham is the Chief Operating Officer now. He is a Brunswick guy, a Bayliner guy, and he brought that mentality to C-Dory. This is what I mean by the "Lathamization" of C-Dory, which is pretty much 180 degrees opposite everything that had preceded his arrival. It boils down to a decision to build and sell C-Dorys like Bayliners. Scot and Rich Reynolds of course had to buy into it. You can see by Jeff's departure that whether he originally supported it or not, it ultimately did not turn out right for him or he would still be selling C-Dorys not Rangers.

Abandoning factory sales, service and repairs I am guessing was the first step in the Lathamization of C-Dory. The next step was to convert the niche boat we all know and love to the new cookie-cutter boats. These boats have to be fungible, each one exactly like all the others. That is why the interior must be a mold rather than Decragard. Forget any customizations like our under-galley floor. Forget any customizations at all. The new C-Dorys may be fine boats, they may not - I don't know and I really no longer care, but they are not what they used to be, and anyone who has been around here for a while knows that.

The deal with Les and EQ is the last step - marketing. In the "old" model C-Dorys were built to order after the customer had made a lot of choices. The new model is mass marketing like Bayliners at Olympic Boat Center - dealers who have a row of C-Dorys lined up beside the freeway. All models, a big inventory, lots of choices ready to go out the door for the impulse buyer. The problem, of course, which I think will be reflected in future problems for the C-Dory company, is that this marketing model does not match the values and behavior of the kind of people who buy C-Dorys, especially the people who frequent this site. We are not impulse buyers. We are not going to see a C-Dory on the freeway and say "Oh, honey, I love the blue one, let's buy it!"

Les and EQ don't fit the Lathamized C-Dory company's high inventory high visibility market model, too damn bad. The fact that Les DOES fit the typical C-Dory BUYER'S model, and C-Dory doesn't get it, is just beyond bad decision-making. It is pure stupidity, and C-Dory is going to be in huge trouble when LUSR drops them because they just aren't selling enough C-Dorys. But to me, that is bound to happen because we just don't buy C-Dorys that way.

We do lots of research, we communicate with each other on C-Brats, ask lots of questions, before making the purchase decision, including how we want our own boat rigged. Almost all C-Dory purchasers found this site before buying their boat, and participated for several months or even a year before buying their boat. This site used to inspire confidence that they would be happy with that choice. I leave it up to you to decide whether that is still true or not.

Sorry this is so long - to summarize my statement that every decision C-Dory has made since the move to Auburn is wrong basically boils down to these three things:

1 - Abandoning factory direct sales, service and warranty work;

2 - Changing the C-Dory to a cookie-cutter boat; and

3 - Moving to a high inventory high visibility marketing model.

Every single decision has one common core element - it cuts C-Dory off from the customer, and in doing so, it seems to me that the Lathamized C-Dory company has squandered its single largest asset, its former fanatically loyal customer base. I truly do not understand how Scot and Rich do not fathom this.

Don't even get me started on the stupid decisions about a 22' center console or a 29' monstrosity!





I



Sea Wolf":2aceqfrl said:
I cannot fanthom many of the apparent decisions coming out of the C-Dory management these days.


Joe.
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It seems that C-Dory is willing to trade reputation and quality for marketing and volume. Who knows, maybe a reputation earned through years of building a quality product can't match modern marketing.
This forum has sold a number of C-Dorys. I can tell you it made the decision for me.
Does C-Dory really think we are puppets that will continue to sing their praises when they no longer deserve them? Quite frankly, if I were on the market for a new boat today I'd possibly buy an Arima 21 Explorer or 22HT.
.

C-Dory, listen up. Word of mouth is a powerful marketing tool. Often when we go out someone expresses intrest in the boat. What would you like me to tell them about the quality of the new boats vs the older models? I'm a rather blunt fella, don't expect me to sugar coat the issue.

Will someone with more computer savvy than me foreward this thread to C-Dory? It probably won't do any good as those fellas in the ivory tower have already made up their minds but they need a reality check.

Steve
 
You're dead wrong Pat:

participated for several months or even a year before buying their boat
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I waited 10 years to buy one . . . and by some stroke of dumb luck, didn't wait an additional two. I am convinced C-Dawg-E would carry me across the Atlantic if I wanted to go, it is in the top five best things I ever bought. That said, I have noticed some changes as well, particularly in the past year, and that does trouble me greatly, as my boat may be inadvertantly be used in advertising a product I increasingly may no longer support.

I can do my films on a Nordic (or anything else I want), and may yet do so.
 
Milehog":2c9sl03s said:
..

Often when we go out someone expresses intrest in the boat. What would you like me to tell them about the quality of the new boats vs the older models?
Click to expand...

Cool :thup I think my 19 year-old boat just went up in value. :wink
 
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