This one is unfortunate for sure. There are surveyors who are thourough and some are not. You have to be clear even hiring a survey. Is it a valuation for insurance survey or is it an all systems structural survey? I had a client get a survey done on a 30 foot sailboat and showed me the bill $150. What! If I want a structural/systems survey and that means tapping for delam and a moisture reading that bill had better be for 6-9 hours. More like $800 and a thourough written report. A cd25 is a pretty simple boat but I think a proper mecanical/ structural survey would occupy 4-5 hours plus written report. Maybe 5-600 bucks worth. A quick once over for insurance is waay different than a real survey and unfortunately one needs to be aware of what you are requesting. I had a friend absolutely having to have a sailboat with teak decks. He would not take my advice and run until the third boat he "loved" had teak deck sealant/ bond failure. He got a real nice boat with fibreglass decks finally. A structural survey is pricey and it is tempting to skip it. Sorry you had this occur and I hope you enjoy the boat.
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Flexing of cockpit deck
- Thread starter C spot swim
- Start date
Matt Gurnsey
New member
Sunbeam":28gmljgl said:..... I feel that a surveyor should pull up any liftable cockpit sole covering, especially on a cored hull....
Agree completely, which is why I find fault with the surveyor. It was his job to lift that dek material amd check the deck. I would think that amount of soft core would show up by tapping the boat's bottom as well.
Robert H. Wilkinson
New member
Just to clarify- I am not calling anyone here dishonest - that was directed at salespeople in general - if they tell you something is in excellent shape(in order to close a sale) when in fact they have not spent the time/money to verify its condition - then are they not being dishonest?
I do however believe, once the dealer was made aware of the problem he should have come to some kind of compromise with the customer who bought from him in good faith.
I am just amazed that we have laws to deter a realter from selling us a house that he knows is structurally unsafe, and a car dealer from selling us a car that is structurely unsafe - and yet a dealer can sell us a 5 year old boat that needs $7G of structural repairs. To make matters worse - this is a boat that owners take 50 or more miles offshore, into remote waters (Alaska, for example) and because of its design the floor is the hull. This saga could have ended quite differently.
On a happier note - the dealers who post on this forum do offer Bratts a wealth of timely information and advise that is appreciated. Thank you.
Regards, Rob
I do however believe, once the dealer was made aware of the problem he should have come to some kind of compromise with the customer who bought from him in good faith.
I am just amazed that we have laws to deter a realter from selling us a house that he knows is structurally unsafe, and a car dealer from selling us a car that is structurely unsafe - and yet a dealer can sell us a 5 year old boat that needs $7G of structural repairs. To make matters worse - this is a boat that owners take 50 or more miles offshore, into remote waters (Alaska, for example) and because of its design the floor is the hull. This saga could have ended quite differently.
On a happier note - the dealers who post on this forum do offer Bratts a wealth of timely information and advise that is appreciated. Thank you.
Regards, Rob
Robert H. Wilkinson
New member
Just a note on legalities; it is my understanding that if the buyer hires the surveyor then the dispute re. unprofessional work is between them.
If the dealer hires the surveyor and includes his fee on the bill of sale or repair order then the dispute is between the buyer and dealer. In a court of law a contractor(dealer) is responsible for the work done by his sub-contractors(surveyor). The dealer must then take the surveyor to court to recoup his costs.
Regardless who hired the surveyor the dealer is not absolved of all liability if he knowingly sold a vessel that was structurally unsafe and represented it as being "turn key ready for the water" as the original poster here was told.
Regards, Rob
If the dealer hires the surveyor and includes his fee on the bill of sale or repair order then the dispute is between the buyer and dealer. In a court of law a contractor(dealer) is responsible for the work done by his sub-contractors(surveyor). The dealer must then take the surveyor to court to recoup his costs.
Regardless who hired the surveyor the dealer is not absolved of all liability if he knowingly sold a vessel that was structurally unsafe and represented it as being "turn key ready for the water" as the original poster here was told.
Regards, Rob
Matt Gurnsey
New member
The key phrase is "knowingly".
And dealers don't hire surveyors for this very reason. The survey belongs to the person paying for it, and the surveyor works for the that person. It's the surveyors job to find flaws and advice his customer (the buyer) of the boat's condition. For a dealer to have a survey performed is a conflict of interest.
I know many would like this to be the dealers fault, but I want to be sure that potential buyers understand the dealer's (or broker's) role in the sale and the importance of hiring a good surveyor as well as viewing a boat in person before buying.
And dealers don't hire surveyors for this very reason. The survey belongs to the person paying for it, and the surveyor works for the that person. It's the surveyors job to find flaws and advice his customer (the buyer) of the boat's condition. For a dealer to have a survey performed is a conflict of interest.
I know many would like this to be the dealers fault, but I want to be sure that potential buyers understand the dealer's (or broker's) role in the sale and the importance of hiring a good surveyor as well as viewing a boat in person before buying.
This is also the reason that you never hire a surveyor who is recommended by the dealer (or any seller). If I am selling a boat I will not recommend a surveyor.
Dealers have been known to hire surveyors who will slant the condition of the boat....Some surveyors are loath to "find problems" because they fear loosing business or recommendations. Those are the surveyors to avoid.
Dealers have been known to hire surveyors who will slant the condition of the boat....Some surveyors are loath to "find problems" because they fear loosing business or recommendations. Those are the surveyors to avoid.
Matt Gurnsey
New member
A good source for surveyor recomendation can be local insurance agents who deal with marine policies.
Robert H. Wilkinson":1cexrre7 said:Just to clarify- I am not calling anyone here dishonest - that was directed at salespeople in general - if they tell you something is in excellent shape(in order to close a sale) when in fact they have not spent the time/money to verify its condition - then are they not being dishonest?
I do however believe, once the dealer was made aware of the problem he should have come to some kind of compromise with the customer who bought from him in good faith.
I am just amazed that we have laws to deter a realter from selling us a house that he knows is structurally unsafe, and a car dealer from selling us a car that is structurely unsafe - and yet a dealer can sell us a 5 year old boat that needs $7G of structural repairs. To make matters worse - this is a boat that owners take 50 or more miles offshore, into remote waters (Alaska, for example) and because of its design the floor is the hull. This saga could have ended quite differently.
On a happier note - the dealers who post on this forum do offer Bratts a wealth of timely information and advise that is appreciated. Thank you.
Regards, Rob
7G for a hull repair...time for a second opinion.
Chris
barryst,
To replace 75% of the cockpit and 25% of the cabin floor balsa core (This is the bottom of the boat)--is a very large project. It would involve removal of the inner glass, then checking and slowing removing rotten core, and finally reglassing and refinishing the entire floor of the cockpit and cabin. This is compicated by the aft bulkhead and any furniture.
I don't think that $7000 is out of line for that repair by professionals.
To replace 75% of the cockpit and 25% of the cabin floor balsa core (This is the bottom of the boat)--is a very large project. It would involve removal of the inner glass, then checking and slowing removing rotten core, and finally reglassing and refinishing the entire floor of the cockpit and cabin. This is compicated by the aft bulkhead and any furniture.
I don't think that $7000 is out of line for that repair by professionals.