Expired Flare Question

B

browntdb

New member
I bought our 2000 CD 22 Cruiser in January. I was looking at the flares onboard today and all have a 2000 mfg. date with a 2004 expiration date. There are 8 hand held Orion flares and one orange smoke orion flare.

I know I need to purchase new up-to-date flares but wonder if I should just hang on to the old ones or take them to the fire department to dispose of them. Will the old ones still work or are they dangerous to keep? I could keep them in a spare situation if they are still ok to use.

Thanks,

Terry
 
I've always understood there to be no danger in keeping expired ones (I mean, as long as you are not counting on them to work), and that oftentimes they still work and could be useful. Another option is to set them off intentionally (with appropriate notification/permission) to get some practice using them when you're not actually in a pinch.
 
browntdb":kvifixgg said:
I bought our 2000 CD 22 Cruiser in January. I was looking at the flares onboard today and all have a 2000 mfg. date with a 2004 expiration date. There are 8 hand held Orion flares and one orange smoke orion flare.

I know I need to purchase new up-to-date flares but wonder if I should just hang on to the old ones or take them to the fire department to dispose of them. Will the old ones still work or are they dangerous to keep? I could keep them in a spare situation if they are still ok to use.

Thanks,

Terry
Click to expand...

Terry, I kept mine as spares in my life raft. When I purchased my boat it had expired flares. After replacing them with new ones the old ones went as spares only in the raft. May have to fire one off if I'm out on the water the 4th of July after giving the coast guard a call.
 
Check with your local harbor patrol to see if they have any upcoming events when you can fire them off. We have one here every year. The first time I went, I had several flares that were less than a year out of date. None of them worked.
 
By "hand held" do you mean flares resembling roadside flares that you light with the striker on the cap or are these the aerial shotgun shell type? If they are the handheld type that burn as you hold them I don't think you need to ask anyone before lighting them. I always save mine up to use for brush pile bonfire starters. They work great for that.

If they are the kind you launch with the little plastic gun then you definitely need to notify the Coast Guard before firing them, and they still may ask that you don't. I had some old ones that I took to the local marine store and they disposed of them. I think the fire department will take them off your hands too.
 
I've had just the opisite experience as Phil with no failures with them being up to 5 yrs out of date. That is from at least a dozen I've fired from spares, I had saved from the expired required flares & the extra I always had aboard for bear protection. For a time & maybe some still do, they were recommended by some bear experts to use in a wet climate such as Southeast Alaska as a bear deterrent.

These of course were the gun fired ones & in the area I fired them in Southeast Alaska, there was not a concern on my part about anyone, but us, seeing them.

Jay
 
If you haven't had the opportunity to fire off a flare, check with your local Coast Guard to see when/where you can do so. We have set them off as part of crew training in the past. The hand-held flares have to be held out at a 45º angle so they don't drip hot residue down your arm! They go on longer than you might expect. It is good to have a bucket full of water to drop the used flare into afterwards. The gun fired flares last for a short time. Good experience to see both in action.

If you carry expired flares in your boat, be sure to put them in something marked "Expired Flares" in case you are boarded for a safety inspection, AND have current flares onboard.
 
As a CG Auxiliarist I've done several on the water flare demos for the CG during boating safety events. Have set off all kinds, smoke, flares, shotgun, etc. etc. some almost 20 years out of date, all of the in date and almost all of the expired ones have worked. They are hard to dispose of. Many fire depts, West Marine, etc. will not take them. Several brats have commented that the flares make great mole killers, just put them in the hole. If you can find when there is a demo through your local CG, usually a specific date and place, go there and try them out. I have several expired on C-Cakes plus, of course several that are not expired. Jim is absolutely right about being cautious with the flares, they drip a hot slag so hold them over the side of the boat. For both the flares and smoke, try to hold them downwind. We always tell boaters, when we are doing safety checks, to not fire of any until you see a boat or helicopter, then, especially with the little 12GA aerial flares, fire one, then another. Rescuers say they did not really see the first one, just something caught their eye. The second one was what they saw. During the day the smoke devices are by far the most easily seen. The little shotgun shells are very hard to see during the day and the 12GA ones are said to go up to 150ft and burn for up to 7-8 seconds. That is not very high or very long. I carry the 25MM version, they go higher and burn longer. The absolute best are the SOLAS parachute flares but boy are they pricey.
 
I have never fired flares, except as part of a CG sanctioned training, or in several cases white ones to attract attention of a ships which was standing into a dangerous situation, and had not recognized radio, and light signals.

I think disposal is best left to experts. I would not advise keeping flares more than a few years out of date as a back up--we try and keep only a year or so out of date, the rest to to Hazmat for disposal.

As far as keeping outdated burning powders in your boat or garage, I consider them dangerous--the containers can leak and be damaged. Best to not have around.

Some excellent suggestions about use of flares and hand held devices. I carried 25 MM SOLAS parachute flares on our cross ocean trips, along with EPRIBS (two).
 
This is an interesting topic that I look at every few years, because I end up with a lot of expired flares every year both at home and at work.
Last month, one of the Captains at work asked me to check the current status of disposal as this was a larger coastal boat that had a large inventory to dispose of. First I checked with local CG and CG Aux. to see if they would take them for upcoming exercises. They had plenty and didn't need/want any more. I checked with local fire departments and they too didn't want them. Next I check with the local city to see if they would take them at their hazmat disposal faculty and they do. This particular city (and the fire department) told me a procedure that we have used in the past... Place the flares in a bucket of water for several days, then just dispose of them in your normal trash. One of my concerns with this method is that the water is contaminated, so what do you do with the water. I questioned the City water department about this and they gave me the answer that I expected. They prefer that you do not contaminate water that is being placed in the city water treatment system.
As Bob stated, it is not a good idea to hang on to these too long as they will become a liability.
The CG will give you a hard time if you carry expired flares that are not marked as such, so though you might want to hang on to the last batch (packaged with the words expired), make sure that the up to date flares are the ones that you will retrieve 1st if you need them.
Bottom line, each city has different protocol for disposal of these, so a quick phone call to your city's trash/recycle faculty is always worth your while.
 
Talking about flares.......I ran into a new concept to me at the Seattle boat show. It's the ODEOFLARES flare which is a hand held red flare using lasers rather than pyrotechnics. Runs on batteries and I understand has the blessing of the coast guard in our area.
 
I just reviewed the CG web site on certification of visual signal devices:
"ELECTRIC S-O-S DISTRESS LIGHT
APPROVAL CATEGORY: 161.013

APPROVAL GUIDANCE & INFORMATION: This is an alternative to flares for recreational boats. It is required to automatically flash S-O-S. Light intensity and duration requirements apply. Electric S-O-S distress lights are self-certified by the manufacturer. The Coast Guard does not issue approvals or keep an authenticated list of manufacturers. Approval standards for these lights are found in Title 46 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Subpart 161.013."


This does not substitute for flares or smoke signals. The laser based "Flare" has been around for at least 11 years. To my knowledge never been approved. I have been thinking of doing a post on LED flashlights, several of which do also have the SOS signal visible for several miles.

The problem of the LED is distance and horizon, since most of our boats are low to the water, the distance of visibility depends on sending the beam so it reliably strikes another boat--or the clouds. Even with cloud lighting or plane painting by an LED--many people may not recognize the distress signal of a red LED.

Wish that it did take the place--maybe some day...
 
FYI;
I found that sometimes the local police dept would take these 'pyrotechnics', flares and use them for training and other disposal means. It's worth a call. At one time the fire dept would do this, but they stopped. I had some 21 older flares that disposed this way.

I still had >12 on board(new & old).

Art
 
I know the laser "flares/rescue signals" are being marketed but have not heard about any USCG approvals. They may be approved, I just haven't heard of it and the CG Aux. would be told because of our safety training/inspection roles. A couple of issues: Do you have to have it pointed at you to see it? I would want a 360 degree signal. Even if it generates a steady red line or "SOS" pattern how many boaters would recognize it as a distress signal? It may well be the wave of the future, no expiration (just batteries), no burning, etc. that would be nice. For now though, better have the old fashioned stuff around.
 
According to the CG web site on various equipment the laser is NOT approved. You would have to have the beam catch you or you would have to see the column of light--depends on many factors if that would happen (such as humidity, rain, fog, clouds, smoke etc) There are some 360 degree LED signals, but usually used for autos, trucks and construction.

Boat US foundation did some tests on the laser flares--and found that they were less than satisfactory--Even though they are wider than a laser pointer, at 1/4 mile they are only a several foot wide beam--so pointing has to be fairly accurate at the potential rescue boat.

Then there is the issue if people recognize a flashing red light as a distress signal--many don't-and same for the ...---... Few people read morris code, and don't recognize S O S.
 
thataway":3r98syq3 said:
<stuff clipped>
Then there is the issue if people recognize a flashing red light as a distress signal--many don't-and same for
the ...---... Few people read morris code, and don't recognize S O S.
Click to expand...
Those people need to watch more old movies.
 
I keep the expired flares in a separate container, separate from the emergency pack. I have not heard they need to be marked expired, but that makes sense.

As to the handhelds, I keep a pair of leather gloves in the drawer by the door for that very purpose.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon
 
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