Engine flush & shore power questions

J

jstates

New member
I have a few maintenance questions:

Please point me to a previous post if it is covered somewhere>

1.What is the best way to flush the Honda 40 HP engines at the end of each day [docked] when you are in salt water for a few weeks.

I have been removing the engine cover and back flushing the rubber tube that is connected to the cooling system exit port on the Starboard side of the engine, until water is draining out of all ports below.

I know there is port near the gear oil port but it will not flush the upper part of the system described above. I have tried the earmuffs, with the engines in the up position and turned off but again no water out the cooling exit port.

I know that its ok to run the engines in neutral and down with muffs on [and water flowing in ] when boat is out of water, but that doesn't work when I am docked somewhere.

I asked one Honda mechanic about running the engines [in neutral] with muffs on, and water on - with the engine in the up position and he said lubrication of the engine at that angle might cause a problem.

I did search for some of this under engine flush - may have had the wrong search word.



2. I am trying to learn about shore power - I think mine is 15 amp - as the manual said we needed 15 amp if battery charger was installed.

I am using the Cafarano dehumidifer with fan when not in the boat and the circuit brakers handle it fine

I purchased a Cafarano electric heater [for boat, shop, home etc] I can only run it on the low fan and heat setting which never really dries out the boat when I am hooked up to shore power [and on the boat] . The higher setting throw the circuit breaker. I could see using this for winter cruising to explore several Puget Sound Marinas this winter

So - any suggestions for an electric heat system [at shore power] when I don't want to run the Wallace stove?

Is it difficult to upgrade to a higher amp system?

Different Marinas have different types of amperage - how do you manage that.

3. Do most of you who run the Wallace or alcohol stoves have a CO detector on board?
Especially when docked and the Bimini cover is closed and CO could accumulate in the enclosed area.?

Thanks

Jim
 
Jim, my Honda 45s are in salt water all the time when the boat is in the water. I launch in the spring and recover in the fall/early winter. I just tilt the engines out of the water and let them drain when at my pier. I only flush them at the end of the season in a portable engine flush apparatus that I have after the boat is on the trailer. No ill effects noted.

DSCN1098_1.jpg

Charlie
 
There are three standard marina plugs: 15 amp--which is the standard two progs and a round at the bottom/household. The 30 amp 110 volt (Round with one of the plugs having an L on it). 50 amps--can be either 220 or 110. There are different adaptors for the 50 amp 110 and the 220--forget those. You may need a 30 to 15 amp adaptor. It is easy to make one--use an outdoor household female plug, to a 30 amp male connector.
(or for $50 you can buy one). I have occasionally seen 20 amp round in canada or 20 amp cross blade in the US--but these are both rare.

I also keep an RV 30 amp to marine 30 amp adaptor, for the times I am staying in an RV park with a boat.

Most of the ceramic 1200 watt heaters will run on a 15 amp circuit. You may have to turn off the battery charger when the heater is on.

It seems rare to see a 15 amp shore power connector on a boat. The current C Dory list gives a 30 amp circuit. You might want to get a 15 to 30 amp adaptor, for the times when a small marina does not have a 30 amp socket.
 
Bob

Thanks for the information - I wasn't sure which adapter I had but from your description I must have a 30 amp - as their are three prongs with an L bend on one of them.

It does not look at all like the 15 amp standard 3 prong you described.

I did turn everything else off - [battery charger and the middle circuit braker labeled auxiliary - ground faults seem to be working OK>

Today when At West Marine - the salesperson indicated the heater should run even on the 15 amp - of course much better on the 30 amp. So he thought perhaps the circuit braker was going out - or something was not wired correctly. He had a thirty amp service on his boat and was running two heaters at times.

The prior CD owner had indicated he could run a couple of appliances at once - including a ceramic heater.

Any idea how to narrow it down?

Thanks

Jim
 
This is a topic I was going to bring up, so thanks for doing so.

I've been advised by long-time PNW boaters to have both a humidifier and a heater going in my boat to prevent mold and to cook off manufacturing toxins/fumes.

What's the consensus opinion on this? And if the opinion is to get either or both, what brands are recommended? Cafarano? Other? And is it necessary to keep a heater going once the boat is "broken in"?

Thanks,
Warren
 
Jim-

A 15 amp outlet should be able to run an 1800 watt heater or appliance.

15 amps x 120 volts = 1800 watts

Most small electric heaters have a low and a high setting that are in the neighborhoods of

low~600-800 watts

high~1400-1600 watts

plus about 100 watts for the fan motor which runs on all settings


A 30 amp service outlet should therefore handle up to about 3600 watts.

Check the wattage specs on your heater (must be posted on a tag on the appliance). If the heater is rated at 1800 watts or less and still making the circuit breaker open the circuit, either

1. the appliance is taking more current than it is supposed to (is defective), or

2. the extension cord is too long, dropping the voltage too low, in which case the amperage goes up inversely, which generally overheats appliances and trips circuit breakers, or

3. you have another appliance using current that you're not accounting for.

Joe.
 
Jim – what size is your heater? Look for a wattage rating on the heater. It will be on the heater somewhere. There may be several ratings on it for different settings.

To figure out your amperage, capacity of your circuit breaker (example 15 amps) divide the watts of your heater (example 1500 watts) by your line voltage (120v) 1500/120=12.5 amps. If you have a 15 amp circuit breaker and it trips, there is additional draw somewhere (something else is on) or the circuit breaker is bad. If the wattage is 2000 watts divided by 120 volts = 16.66 amps, your circuit breaker is too small.

If the line voltage is low, for example 110 volts in the above example, 1500 watts/110volts the amperage is 13.64 amps.

If you are hooked up to a marina that has a drop in line voltage or a long extension cord your amperage will increase. Your 15 amp circuit breaker may work in one location but not in another because of the drop in line voltage.

Joe you beat me to this post but I am going to post it anyway

________
Dave dlt.gif
 
Dave and Joe


The Caframo is rated as above and will work on the 600 W setting, but not on the 900 or above. I am using about a 35-40 foot extension cord that came with the boat.

Perhaps its the length of the cord, the Marina setup or a faulty circuit breaker - as you have suggested, since I as far as I can tell I have all other power off - [charger]

Thanks -

Jim
 
Jim-

Try and run the heater right at the outlet w/o the extension cord on the higher settings to see if it's the length of the cord, the circuit breaker, or the appliance.

Joe.
 
Jim - another thing to look at is the size of wire in the extension cord. If it is too small, you can have a voltage drop which will cause an increase in amperage. A loose connection in your outlet can cause a voltage drop. It could be a combination of several things, not necessarily one thing. Do you know how to use a VOM (voltage ohm meter). I would suggest you get one. They are invaluable in trouble shooting these kind of problems.

If you do not have a VOM or you do not know how to use one, I will give you one and help with the basics of its use, when we meet for the Seattle Ship Canal Cruise. I have four or five VOM’s setting around.
________
Dave dlt.gif
 
Joe

I don't think I used the correct terminology: The extension cord I was referring to is the thick yellow, three prong [probably 30 amp] shore to boat plug in like what most others use in our Marina. I don't use extension cord in the C-dory - thanks for the ideas and explanations.

I have tried two heaters directly in the 110 outlet on the boat, and both broke the circuit - I think its the circuit breaker??

Dave

Thanks for the ideas and kind offer to try a volt meter. I think I will try to get into the circuit breaker - [when power is disconnected].


I obviously need a course in electrical engineering - and a refresher in physics I= ER

Jim
 
jstates":2pu085b4 said:
Joe

I don't think I used the correct terminology: The extension cord I was referring to is the thick yellow, three prong [probably 30 amp] shore to boat plug in like what most others use in our Marina. I don't use extension cord in the C-dory - thanks for the ideas and explanations.

I have tried two heaters directly in the 110 outlet on the boat, and both broke the circuit - I think its the circuit breaker??

Dave

Thanks for the ideas and kind offer to try a volt meter. I think I will try to get into the circuit breaker - [when power is disconnected].


I obviously need a course in electrical engineering - and a refresher in physics I= ER

Jim
Click to expand...

I'm unclear: is it the main 30 amp breaker tripping, or the 15 amp
breaker to the outlet? If your 30 amp breaker is tripping, that
doesn't sound too good. If the 15 amp is tripping, perhaps it is
defective, or perhaps something is a bit loose in your wiring.

Or is it the GFCI tripping? The outlet, or an upstream outlet should
be a GFCI.

Mike
 
Mike the 15 amp breaker is the one that is tripped by the heater - the other 15 amp breaker to the battery charger works ok - though I have been turning it off when running the heater.

The GFCI seems to work ok, it is not turning off the power when the circuit breaker goes.


Jim
 
Jim-

Sounds like the two 15 amp breakers are both in your boat!

If you think the one is defective that's on the accessory circuit, and the one on the charger circuit is OK, you might switch them and see what happens.

If the heater still trips the other breaker installed in the accessory circuit, it's most probably the heater. If it doesn't, the other breaker is probably defective.

Joe.
 
jstates":bc58zg04 said:
Mike the 15 amp breaker is the one that is tripped by the heater - the other 15 amp breaker to the battery charger works ok - though I have been turning it off when running the heater.

The GFCI seems to work ok, it is not turning off the power when the circuit breaker goes.


Jim
Click to expand...

I'd pull the outlet after the trip. Feel for anything hot. Check the wiring back to
the breaker panel. Look for anything loose, corroded connections, etc. Also,
the breaker swap idea mentioned before is a good idea. Make sure no one
put butt connectors in the wires between the outlet and the panel. If they
did, check them, and properly box them or replace the wire.

You shouldn't need to turn off the battery charger. You have 30 amps at the
panel; the charger shouldn't matter. You would only need to turn off the
charger if it was drawing lots of power, which it shouldn't be.

For instance, if you have a 30 amp charger, that's 30 amps at 12 volts. The
draw from 120V will be something around 4-5 amps, so you are maxing
at 15 amps to trip the one breaker, plus 4-5 for the charger, which isn't
really close to the 30 amp feed.

I'd be careful. While it's possible the breaker is bad, more likely something else
is broke. If the breaker is tripping, something might be getting hot.

Mike
 
Today I removed the icebox and checked out the circuit breaker from the back. - Interesting. Three breakers - 5-10-15, 15 amp for the battery charger, 5 amp wired to the outlet for regular plug ins and the then 10 amp not wired in to anything. So I changed the wires so the outlet was on 10-amps and the heater now works up to 900 watts - or level 3 of 4 -



I think I will eventually purchase a 15 amp to replace the 5+10 and hook that up to go to the dual outlets.

Thanks to all who helped on this - also my formula was wrong a few posts back - it should be E=IR The Watts = volts x amps was helpful today as it correctly calculated what level of wattage would throw the breaker - ie over 10


Jim
 
"Normally" the house hold type of outlets are on a 15 amp circuit. I suspect that someone wired the boat improperly. I have an older ferro resionate battery charger (30 amp 12 volt output) on my bench--and it takes 5.5 amps. A newer 20 amp transister unit only uses 3.5 amps. I missed what size your battery charger is--but most likely it is less than 10 amps--and 5 amp AC breaker will be fine. Rewire the plugs to the 15 amp breaker--and I agree check the wire--but # 12 will be fine--many boats will have #14 for short runs...I prefer #12. The main power cord into the boat should be #10 wire--and from the plug on the side of the boat to the breaker pannel should be #10 wire. (one of the issues is that most of these little heaters use too small a cord wire size. I just checked a 1500 watt Ceramic heater--and it has #16 two strand wire "rated for 105 deg C. If I was using this type of heater on the boat (which I am not because I have seen some arching in the Ceramic heaters) I would have # 12 wire cord.

Tools I use looking at these type of problems are the "kilo-watt" unit with an adaptor--measures the voltage, (AC 110 +/-) hz, amps, watts and comulative amps. For DC (and other AC, resistance etc) of course the digital volt meter, but another handy gadget for looking at wiring and circuit breakers is an IR thermoter. I have a couple of inexpensive Radio Shack units--they check out quite accurately and go up to 400 degrees. Great to measure wire temps, breaker temps, buss bar temps etc--plus the trailer axel bearings, tires, motor cooling equality etc.
 
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