Electric

D

Donald Tyson

Member
Electric Is Scary to me. I hate it. But I can't really be comfy without it.
That being said I do clearly see that the previous owners of our boat really put it together in a dependable fashion and I'm thankful. It's pretty trustworthy.

I could use some understanding though. Up until now I would plug the boat into the house and the GFI would blow immediately. We even traded out the 20 amp GFI for a 30 and it still blew right away. As a check, or control, we plugged into a non GFI protected wall outlet. It ran just fine and is still running now...several hours now. Do I just leave it plugged in or do I remove it when it slows audibly.

How do I know when the charging is done? There are no meters or gauges to refer to like with a gas engine.
Do I just leave it? Does it slow and automatically become just a trickle?

I meant to buy Nigels book but didn't get that far yet.
 
To charge the batteries, you need to have a charger installed in the boat. Simply plugging into shore power will not charge the batteries. The charger may need to be switched on. There should be indications on the charger when charging is complete and it has entered float mode. Some chargers have a current meter on the output. When this current drops to a very low number, charging is complete.

Find the brand and model of the charger and look up the manual online.
 
The most likely cause of your GFI tripping would be that the neutral and ground are bonded in the boat wiring. The two should each connect to its own bus. The AC on my boat was wired with the neutral and ground connected and it worked fine for years but somewhere along the line the GFI outlets were changed and when I added a modern upgraded outlet to the garage the boat would kick it out. Separating the ground and neutral in the onboard AC panel fixed it.

As for the charger it depends on the model and type you have. You should be able to find the manual for your charger by Googling the model number.
 
All of Mother Nature is deadly. Sometimes She is enjoyable. Often not.
Part of Mother Nature is electricity. It's extra scary and deadly being invisible.
Like the Sea, She just waits for the innocent but actually stalks the unprepared,
the careless and the arrogant. Do not mess with Her unless you know what you
are doing (boat DC < shoreside AC - if this doesn't make sense, stay away).

Aye.
Dirty Harry said, "A man has to know his limitations."
 
Bonded neutral and ground on the boat. GFI connected to GFI will result in one or the other tripping as well, so even if the neutral/ground bond is removed, if there is a 120v gfi receptacle on the boat and you plug into a home exterior gfi you'll get a trip.

Personally, I'd leave the boat wired as is if done at a reputable shop and simply connect the boat at home to a non-gfi cct in the home. A cct in the home may be protected by a gfi breaker covering multiple receptacles, or a gfi receptacle may have several 'normal' receptacles connected to its load terminals achieving the same protect.

In my home I have several 20A receptacles in the garage, each on a dedicated breaker (15A) and use 12gauge extension cords for battery chargers and block heaters outside.

check local building codes, consult your preferred marine service provider and you'll be good, happy, safe.

I'm a red seal electrician in Canada, my set up is a bit over kill but it works for me.
 
Donald Tyson":b4zvc3z1 said:
Electric Is Scary to me. I hate it. .......

How do I know when the charging is done? There are no meters or gauges to refer to like with a gas engine.
Do I just leave it? Does it slow and automatically become just a trickle?

I meant to buy Nigels book but didn't get that far yet.
Click to expand...

Depends on the charger. Quality smart chargers can sense what they're connected to (# of cells, voltage etc) and will charge effectively at different levels to promote battery health. Changing from bulk charge to trickle, some will even switch to 'tending' modes where they apply a load or charge ... sorta to stimulate the cells. Cheap chargers will bulk charge and continue to do so even once the battery has reached 100%.

Continued charging will cook batteries (thus trickle chargers and/or modes, just enough to offset natural drain)

better chargers will do some sort of tending mode and actively monitor battery health.

the best ones may even be able to slightly 'repair/restore' a batteries health or indicate cell health through charge/discharge cycles (most new cell phones for example have optimal charging cycles to promote battery life)

better/best chargers are highly recommended if you've purchased expensive lithium batteries, but come at additional costs.

My boat has 6 year old size 24 batteries (Kirkland lead acid) in it, still at 102% battery health utilizing a quality charge system and a lot of use. They are getting long in the tooth for lead acid batteries and I carry a NOCO booster for this reason. Will replace end of this year regardless.
 
Punkin Drublic:
bonded neutral and ground on the boat. GFI connected to GFI will result in one or the other tripping as well, so even if the neutral/ground bond is removed, if there is a 120v gfi receptacle on the boat and you plug into a home exterior gfi you'll get a trip.
Click to expand...

ABYC:
ABYC regulation E–13.3.5 states:
If installed in a head, galley, machinery space, or on a weather deck, the receptacle shall be protected by a Type A (nominal 5 milliamperes) Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI).

ABYC regulation E–11.11.1 states:
An Equipment Leakage Circuit Interrupter (ELCI) shall be installed with or in addition to the main shore power disconnect circuit breaker(s) or at the additional overcurrent protection as required by E–11.10.2.8.3 whichever is closer to the shore power connection.
Click to expand...

All our boats wired at the factory, should be following ABYC Specs. Mine have been. All of my factory wired boats have the required GFCI in the galley. I have always put GFCI protection on any cockpit outlets I install (as per external or weather deck ABYC).

I believe that all of the 15 amp US GFCI are ~ 5 mA currently.

I believe that the Canadian regulations for boats are the same as US--using ABYC.

In the US current code requires All of the external outlets have to be GFCI protected, as are garage outlets more recently required to have GFCI.

From a medical standpoint:

1 mA — Barely perceptible
16 mA — Maximum current an average man can grasp and "let go"
20 mA — Paralysis of respiratory and limb muscles
100 mA — Ventricular fibrillation threshold


Approximately 10 years ago, the dock pedestal protection was changed from 100 mA down to 30 mA, using a ELCI (see above ABYC) at the pedestal. The Feeder circuit still has a cumulative 100mA protection. As a result many cruising boats were not able to use newer Marina power pedestals. There is often that much leakage in some resistive circuits, such as water heaters, toaster ovens etc..

So the question is will Donald's boat be able to use most modern marina's power Pedestals? Or should he have it checked and brought to current code? Punkin Drublic how would rewire Donald's C Dory 22 to make it compatible with marina pedestals ?

My own dock 15 amp outlets have the ~5mA GCFI. The 30 amp outlets do not (Dock was built over 20 years ago).
 
I apologize for letting this thread hang all day, I was away.

Punkin I did find my instruction manual for the charger the charger is a Zantrex TC 40 and seems to be of good quality. Furthermore, the surveyor said that it was installed correctly so since I don't know anything about electricity, I'll have to take his word on that. When I plugged it in overnight, it was running pretty hard when I went to bed, and now it's quiet so I assume that it does elevate or diminish, charging as necessary to maintain the battery. These batteries are five years old and they're in a very high percentile of performance.
So now I'm going to take time to read the manual and cross reference your advice online and try to get at least a small amount of mastery on the subject so that I'm not flying in the dark so much.

Of course Dr. Bob's question is will I be able to operate safely with modern or recent upgrades to marinas pedestals? I guess I'll have to wait and see and test it.

I called the previous owner yesterday and he said during the three or four years that he owned it he didn't do a thing to it. He would just plug it in to a 15 amp circuit at his house and the battery stayed up and everything worked when he needed it too. Just like a car for instance. So I'm going to do the same thing as I learned more about it. The surveyor said I should replace my batteries at the end of the year whether I want to or not. Thank you so much for the thoughts everyone..
 
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