Electric Over Hydraulic - Needed?????

I'm glad pure electric can work for some...us gulf Florida boaters are a minority, but the Gulf saltwater gets to 90 degrees (warmer near some shallow ramps) and my drum brakes on a Mako 23 (even with hose flushing attachment that directed rinse water right into the drum innards and used every outing) rusted out in one season. Drum brakes and hot saltwater don't play well together.
Whatever works for you!
John
 
Thanks everyone! I am pretty sure we will end up going with EOH, just not sure when.

John, with respect to your commen about Dr Bob's knowledge... I consider cruising with Bob like receiving graduate level education in boating.
 
Will-C,

Just for the record, I don't have surge brakes because I'm cheap (if I were cheap, I wouldn't have a boat in the first place!). I have them because they work well for my purposes. I don't have a problem with anyone choosing something different, but I do bristle a bit when there is the implication that anyone making a different choice is basically taking their family's lives in their hands (given that we are not talking about haywire rigs here, but rather different choices in well-maintained ones).

I never thought about needing trailer braking power when backing down a ramp. I guess I would have thought that the vehicle brakes would be like trailer brakes when going forward - in other words, when backing up you have "the end car on the train" providing braking power (the tow rig). I'm also usually going pretty slowly. Do you typically activate your EOH trailer brakes when backing down the ramp?
 
Sunbeam,
I'm if a shoe fits wear it kind of a guy. No need to take anything personally. I do think there are some people who make decisions based on what they can get away to save a dollar thinking their driving skills will make the difference being better drivers and the like. I have been pulling boat trailers for about 30 years. Some with brakes some without. My last boat came with surge brakes and I had it converted to EOH. At first I had a 1200 PSI actuator, then later after a few years I upgraded to the 1600psi actuator. I have always noticed an improvement and I was glad I upgraded. For those who are happy with surge brakes I wish you all the best. But if you do trailer you boat over any real distances if you ever had EOH you will not go back unless you have a very light boat. Does a person with a relatively light boat need EOH? Depends on the person I guess and the set of circumstances. If I were pulling up and down long grades I would probably swing for them. But as I said if your just bopping down to your local ramp certainly not. It also has to do with the tow vehicles ability to stop the whole package. Some towing with marginal tow vehicles might like to have the idea of better brakes. I made sure to put in my post IMHO. I use a 3/4 ton Chevy with a Duramax diesel. Seen as over kill by some for when I pulled a 23' C-Dory. I my world doing things in what I see as the right way pays benefits. When I bought a larger boat I already had a truck that would pull it. I don't know about you but when I back down any ramp I use the brakes to stop. Anytime I step on the brakes the EOH brakes activate. I don’t unplug the electrical connection to the trailer when backing down a ramp. Does using my trailer brakes while backing down a ramp make a difference? I won't ever know I guess. But on a sandy ramp it might. I also think four drive is a good idea. Should everyone have it? Do look at folks who don't have four wheel drive as no good losers? Certainly not. You seem to have a history with me of seeing what you feel are derogatory inflections. You need to lighten up. These are my opinions not a personal attack directed at you. My references were to encourage folks to look at the bigger picture.
D.D.
 
Just so nobody reads me wrong either. I do believe brakes of some sort on a trailer of any weight increases the safety margin. The heavier the trailer the larger the safety margin. I only bristle when I hear guys badmouthing electric brakes, especially if they do not have personal experience with them. Brakes, regardless of type, require maintenance. Dunking in salt is going to require more maintenance, regardless what style brake you have. Cost is an important factor to me. I don't believe the cheapest route is always the best route. But rather cost efficiency. Ie, Do you need a cadillac when a Chevy or VW will do? Regarding use when launching, I always (unless I forget) unplug my trailer wiring harness when I back into the water. Perhaps more out of old habits from days of incandescent lighting. But even LED lights are spliced into the main wire harness. (And I use sealed connections....) I have forgot to unplug once or twice, and no harm done. I agree with the last couple of posts about different strokes for different folks. I think you'll notice I've never really badmouthed surge or EOH. But I do believe electric is better than surge, simply for the reason of more control over your trailer brakes. I also see advantages of EOH over pure electric, however at a much higher price. My consideration for EOH had nothing to do with how the electric held up, but rather I would like to go disc brake, which is not available at this time in pure electric fashion... (FWIW, you are also looking at a bit more tongue weight for surge or EOH...not much but that might make a difference on some smaller SUV's.) Pure electric has continued to work well for me, and I have heard from a few salt users, it has worked for them. It's also the most simplist setup between the three types. Folks will say electricity and water don't mix. My answer to them is neither does oil (hydraulic fluid) and water. :roll: Thus I will continue to throw advice for consideration of electric when folks ask. Colby
 
I have towed different boats all around the Gulf coast for decades, with surge brakes. For years I pulled a 2ton Cape Dory 25 keel boat from south Texas to Key West. Surge brakes gave me no problems. Saying that, if I had to tow the same boat down long steep grades in the mountains, I would probably move up to EOH brakes. There are so many variables to that decision.

As to brakes or no brakes, when I bought my CD22 there were no brakes on the trailer. My F150 more than handled the braking, BUT, I knew if I ever had an accident, no matter whose fault, the fact that my trailer was not up to legal specs, would put me partially at fault. Does a 16ft boat need brakes? I guess it would if you were towing it with a Harley. But what does Big Brother say?
 
Here's is my take on electric brakes. Disc brakes are better than drum brakes any day of the week. Especially in a salt water environment. I've had both believe me winding the stars with a brake spoon is not my idea of fun whether it's electric or hydraulic drums. Removing a bolt or two from a caliper and replacing the brake pads is a lot easier and a lot less moving parts on a disc setup than dealing with shoe replacement on a drum brake setup. Been there done that. Vented discs or any disc brakes cool a lot faster than drums and disc brakes are less effected by water in general. The fact that electric brakes are unavailable in a disc configuration makes them a non starter in my book. As far as the Cadillac analogy goes. I would say that's a little bit out there. We are not talking style here. It's what is a safer better stopping product. I think it's great that you are head over heels about electric brakes. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Mine is I would not recommend drum brakes to anyone. It matters little how they are activated. I have had both and I think drum brakes just suck. Just my opinion.
D.D.
 
Dave, no argument with you there. Disc is by far the better product. Just wish they weren't so expensive.... I'd almost go as far as to say surge disc over electric drum....almost... lol. Colby
 
What the heck, I'll jump back in though I think this thread is through. And since it's got nothing to do with a C-Dory, I hope that I'll leave some of you bemused, not pissed.

First, lets set a baseline. My first (drivable) car was a '29 Ford Model A. The brakes were drum, front and rear, but rod actuated. That meant the more people in there, the less brakes. The carburetor was updraft with a manual choke rod, no air cleaner. And third, ignition points, which aren't bad, except that the spark plug leads were thin strips of brass. If there was a heavy dew, no start.

So let me list the 3 best improvements in recent automotive history. First, hydraulic disk brakes. For those of you who haven't gone down a hill, loaded, with drum brakes, you've missed a heck of a thrill. Of course, I mean the truck loaded, not the driver. That's another subject.

Second, electronic ignition. Again, some of you may have missed cleaning and setting the points at random intervals in some out of the way dump, but I haven't. And the plugs last forever. Though if the computer takes a dive, it's instant death.

And last, fuel injection. No cleaning the jets, setting the float, adjusting the air screw. No more jiggling the choke or changing the jets for altitude. It's been replaced by the $1000 fuel pump (for GM products,) and random warning lights. But when it works it's awesome.

So nothings perfect and for every plus, there's a few minuses. But the only drum brakes I own are the rear ones on my '63 Chevvy and the travel trailer. Every motor has electronic ignition, including the Honda generator. I still have a few carbs on a couple of oldish bikes. And the lawn mower.

Boris
 
I hear you Boris. Maybe some day trailer brakes will be completely sealed and wireless! (And no connected hydraulic lines) :-) And there won't be any carburated boat motors. :mrgreen: Colby
 
Bringing this thread back up. I need to install eoh brake actuator on Reefmadness' trailer.We plan to tow in BC next year and they are required for heavier weights. My surge actuator is near the end of it's functional life. 2 questions....

1. If I disable the surge portion of the coupler will that be satisfactory for the eoh actuator??

2. I assume installation is simple. Connect wires within my wiring harness and connect and bleed brake hydraulic lines.

3. Which model actuator have you had experience with?

Gene
 
You can put a bolt through the surge actuator to disable it, but it shouldn't be too hard to replace it with a conventional coupler.

For your other questions and a good place to buy the parts, talk to the pros at etrailer.com.

David
 
I wish I had EOH instead of surge, it is great for control in an emergency avoidance where you can manually activate the boat trailer without touching the truck breaks to steer. My trailer came with surge on one axle but BC requires both (all axles), so I converted to disk breaks all way around. The legal limit is 6200# total weight for surge breaks and with the 22 I'm close with a full load. I like the disk brakes, easy to rinse but you must grease the caliper slides regularly or they seize up and can`t be rinsed.

Jim.
 
We have EOH brakes with our Venture 23 and pull it with an F-150. We feel the cost was considerably more for the EOH on the new 2018 trailer but we find it was worth the extra expense. It is nice to lightly apply the service brake on the truck and know you are doing the same on the trailer brakes. We have found the correct adjustment setting on the brake controller where the boat and trailer braking power pretty much matches what the truck is braking for itself and so when going downhill it doesn't feel like the truck is being pushed or pulled while lightly braking and maintaining a safe and comfortable 55 m.p.h. downhill speed. If the roads are wet or icy we can adjust the braking power down a little bit on the trailer from the driver seat to help prevent fishtailing or possibly jackknifing if the road conditions were really bad.
 
What are you towing it with--and what are the state laws? Some states require anything over 1000 lbs, some none:

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It looks to me that N C is anything over 1000 lbs, so you must have brakes, even for the 16.
 
In some states if your trailer has brakes you are also required to have an annual trailer safety inspection. For instance, VA requires this.
 
Gene, I retrofitted to EOH. The problem you may have keeping the old coupler is the room on the trailer for the hydraulic unit. I did not have enough room between the old coupler and the king post. I had to put on a new coupler to get the room so I could get it to fit.
I also had to move the jack back to make enough room for the unit. The unit I have in a Hydrastar (Hydrastarusa.com). It is straight forward wiring. You will also need a breakaway switch.


Fred

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