Effectiveness of handheld VHF when in dinghy or kayak

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Looking at PLB options, I've also run across Spot, which appears to be a cross between a PLB and a sat phone. Budget-wise it seems to be in the neighborhood of most well-reviewed PLBs. Plus, one can communicate directly with responders, albeit with slow-ish send and receive functions according to a number of reviewers. The breadcrumb function is apparently user-definable based on time and can be sent to one's contacts.

At the moment, I'm leaning toward a Spot X but am continuing to research online. But, I thought I'd see what more seasoned recreational mariners have to say in this forum.

Your thoughts???
 
Garmin... Having been born in Kansas, I want to like them. While I can't fault the quality of their equipment, I found their documentation, user interface on their devices, website, and customer/technical service to be woefully lacking and, frankly, irritating. If one isn't already an accomplished user, they don't seem to be willing to be helpful.

I'll stop my rant there, but I can't see myself dealing with that company again. Many others here, and elsewhere, are very satisfied customers, but I'll go elsewhere.
 
I cannot comment on the Garmin products currently. In the past I have not had any issues. Inreach prior to the Garmin acquisition, was better regarded than Spot with reliability and connectivity.

I might just go with the Inreach designed product.

If you really want life saving function then the PLB is far better since there is a very well established chain of command, and SAR connection protocol. Where Spot and Inreach have fallen down in the past, was in calling the appropriate SAR agency. Hopefully that is resolved. The SAR will occur with the ERPIB or PLB. The hand held radio, I would still spring the extra $100 and get a HX 890 over cheaper radios without DSC.
 
Prairie boy, The VHF, PLB and In-Reach are all good but different tools. You might consider all three at some point. Bob nailed it. The PLB is the best tool in a real life/death emergency. Other attributes of the PLB no other device offers is 5-7 year battery life and duel transmit on 406 MHz and 121.5 MHz so the rescue aircraft can hon in on your location. We use the In-reach a lot and change plans seasonally. I like that you can text device to device at no cost, if you at least have the basic safety plan.

Sorry I know your original post was about VHF radios. Ken
 
Hey, Ken,

Yeah, it started with VHF but thanks to the folks here and on other forums the thread grew and I certainly am learning a lot - enough to cause more questions... Hopefully, others will as well.

In general I get that the tools you mentioned are different, but there seems - to this novice - to be some overlap in functionality with some of them. Are a VHF DSC and a PLB redundant in functionality? Are they both calling the same SAR units? Are they both calling different SAR units simultaneously for the same event if I push the "SOS" buttons on each device, causing more units to be deployed for a single event? Or, should one have both VHF DSC and a PLB to enhance the likelihood of the full cavalry in response?

Thanks,

Novice...
 
tomherrick":xs1td0qk said:
Hey, Ken,

Yeah, it started with VHF but thanks to the folks here and on other forums the thread grew and I certainly am learning a lot - enough to cause more questions... Hopefully, others will as well.

In general I get that the tools you mentioned are different, but there seems - to this novice - to be some overlap in functionality with some of them. Are a VHF DSC and a PLB redundant in functionality? Are they both calling the same SAR units? Are they both calling different SAR units simultaneously for the same event if I push the "SOS" buttons on each device, causing more units to be deployed for a single event? Or, should one have both VHF DSC and a PLB to enhance the likelihood of the full cavalry in response?

Thanks,

Novice...
Click to expand...

The PLB is an emergency locator beacon, which goes directly to a satellite. The encoded message (if the unit is registered with NOAA) is matched with the owner. A PLLB is issued to an individual, and can be used on a variety of boats, hiking , amping skiing, off roading etc. The satellites are all virtually in "view" (as long as not blocked in some very narrow canyons, or under a cave etc From the satellite

COSPAS_SARSAT%20Overview.jpg

The phone numbers in the register are called and the nearest SAR unit (land or sea, anywhere in the World) is alerted. I have heard of on the water response as fast as 30 minutes. This is world wide, and there are a data base of emergency providers. As noted the main satellite signal is 406 MHz. There is a secondary beacon at 121.5, which is the aircraft rescue frequency. It used to be all air craft ere to monitor this band, but I believe that is no longer the case. the 121.5 mhm signal is used for honing into the location. The lat and long are also included with the beacon message. So the SAR has a very precise location--of where the initial signal originate from. Updates are available in real time via the SAR center.

An EPIRB is similar, has a battery life of at least 48 hrs vs the 24 hours for the PLB, and is assigned only to one vessel. It should not be moved from vessel to vessel, except as you step up into your life raft. Neither of these should be used for anything other than very serious emergencies.

The VHF DSC is on channel 70 on the VHF radio--it is basically dependent on line of sight and other vessels being close enough to get the digital signal. It is earth bound, and only usable on boats. The digital signal will push thru when voice may not. The Boat is assigned an MMSI number (Free with membership in Boat US, and some other agencies). The MMSI number must be programed into the radio DSC. The red button sets off the radio DSC. " The radio will continue to send the message until someone acknowledges it. This message is fast (only 1/3 of a second), accurate, complete and automatic. It will continue to broadcast even if the skipper is incapacitated."

Rescue-21-graphic.jpg
 
Thanks for that great explanation and graphic Bob. I believe another reason the PLB or EPIRB is the most reliable and robust system for real emergencies is because Rescue Coordination Centers are government funded and operated. I spent a few years providing aircraft crash survival training for Dept of Interior employees in AK and HI. If you activate a PLB, depending where you are, particularly in AK, you will get either a USCG vessel, helicopter/fixed wing, USAF C-130 with PJs or a National Guard UH-60 headed your way in short order. Rescue aircraft will have both your latitude/longitude and guidance from the 121.5 transmission. Many private aircraft and commercial airliners also monitor 121.5 and will report your distress to the FAA as a redundancy. As rescue gets close the PLB also has a strobe.

We use our In-Reach more for communication with friends and family. Before a boat trip or backcountry trip we share our tentative plans with trusted family or friends who know what to do if we are in need, then close out with them when back at the trailhead or marina. Even though the In-Reach will also transmit a 406 MHZ distress signal with my personal information, it is going to a privately operated for profit system that I have less confidence in. It will allow you the ability to two way text with their coordination center to provide them specific details of your need which the PLB will not do. I look at the In-Reach more as a tool to get help for some need less than a life or death emergency. For example, a mechanical problem where we are stuck but not in imminent danger. I can text a trusted friend who could contact someone to provide the help needed. Sheesh getting long winded. Ken
 
Ken, That is a good combo, (PLB and In-Reach). I used SPOT with the tacking crumbs for several years.
It worked well, but for serious life threatening issue, the PLB and the Handheld VHF.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

Forks_and_Friday_Harbor_2009_158.thumb.jpg
 
When my wife and I kayak on the west coast of British Columbia we both carry Standard Horizon HX870 VHF radios. I consider these mainly for local communications to a boat or land station nearby. Even with our C-Dory and an 8 foot antenna on top of the boat and a much stronger radio, we are often in dead spots where no communications are possible. For that reason we also carry a McMurdo Fast Find Ranger PLB and an InReach Explorer. Previously I carried a Spot, but switched over the the InReach a few years ago, as I wanted two way communications.

Typically we both carry our VHF radios and I carry the Fast find and a regular Garmin GPS. Judy carries the InReach. This way we both have a PLB of one sort or another and we both have the GPS.

I consider the PLB the long range signal device and the VHF the short range device. The coast guard, RCMP, Park Wardens and Rangers are all now recommending that every party carries one of these PLB's. Rescue can be initiated almost immediately on receipt of one of these signals. I have in my past life as a mountaineer been rescued twice. In both cases the rescue took anywhere from 12 hours to two days to take place. This is because there was no way to communicate from the backcountry and we either had to send a runner out to call for help or be reported missing. With todays technology there is much less risk of this happening. But this is also not a excuse to be reckless, you still have to be prepared with the skills and equipment to keep yourself safe and be able to help yourself. On that note, these above mentioned items are all dependant on batteries and that is the weak link in electronic safety equipment.
 
Thanks all for the informative discussion. Just finished my orders with The GPS Store for two HX890s and two ACR 2921 ResQLink 400 PLBs. I think these'll do us for the time being as we're just getting started with this technology.

All the best to y'all...

T
 
BRINGING THIS BACK --> New interesting info.

About a month ago, I had a USCG Safety Training instructor on my boat and we were doing "person in the water recovery drills." (PIWRs). He showed up in full uniform (and his wife did too -- :shock: she was the PIW for the watch me do this part, then you do me). It was a great learning experience, done in open water with 1 to 2 foot waves and 15 to 20 knot winds. (Silly me, I was sitting in the boat thinking maybe he would call and say there was too much weather to go do the drill. Ha, He called it calm and they always work in "weather").

Back to the full uniform. A dry suit for each, a PFD with knife and hh VHF securely attached.

The VHF was of interest -- I know mine are "water proof" IP67 or better so I asked about his. It is the same on the USCG Rescue Swimmers use when they go into the water from a helo. He also told me that he had forgotten to take it off his buoyancy compensator before he did a deep dive one day. He spent 10 minutes a 100 feet and did not realize he still had it on until he was getting onto the boat after the dive. It still works.

ICOM M-73. His recommendation is that if you get it from West Marine to add the extra 3 year warranty coverage (about $50) and you have a lifetime coverd hh VHF.

ICOM LINK:
https://www.icomamerica.com/en/products ... tions.aspx

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

1_Jan_From_Inside_the_Electronics.thumb.jpg
 
Hmmm, I probably shoulda gotten that warranty, Harvey. The batteries on both of our HX890s appear to be toast. When we first moved to Gold Beach I had them both in their charging cradles full time here at the house. We weren't using them over the winter and I just got mine out for a bit Pacific kayak fishing. It worked briefly, but I found it dead after a few hours out on the water. Now I see no indication that the battery is charging on mine, although it'll come on for a minute or so then squalk a battery warning at me.

One thread a few years back on some website, folks were complaining that the GPS would stay on when the unit was off. This can be user-controlled, but a lot of folks, including me, didn't know about it. That might be our problem, but the batteries don't seem to be responding; there is no charging indicator.

On edit, I checked the voltage on both 7.4V batteries ; mine was 7.2V, LL's was 6.4V. Hmmmm.... I also just saw this note in the user manual:


SH_Battery_warning.sized.jpg
 
Tom, Good info. I have taken the batteries out of my SH handhelds for over the winter.

I did check on the ICOM M-73s and they do not have a separate battery tray for non rechargeable alkalines. BUT, there is an option to purchase a second rechargeable battery pack. I think I would do that if I was getting one of those radios. To keep a charged pack in my ditch bag.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

January_2010_344.thumb.jpg
 
Wierd, but welcome, change... This morning, both radios showed full charge, but the charging icon wasn't on while they were in the charging cradles. Only info I found in the manual was that the icon was supposed to display while in a plugged-in cradle. So I called S-H tech support and asked if I was missing something. While on the phone with him, I picked up a radio and the icon came on - for a coupla seconds - then off again, then on-off-on-off several times. He had no idea why, but did say that they should be charged about every six weeks if you're not using them.

That's all for now. All's well that ends as well as it could.
 
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