E-Z Loader Trailer Brakes

J

journey on

New member
Journey On and the E-Z Loader roller trailer are now 9 years old. Time flies when you're having fun. It’s been launched in salt water every year, though we took it to fresh water when we went back to the Great Lakes and the Mississippi River.

So the question is: how are the brakes doing? And that’s what I’m going to describe, just for historical documentation.

In summary, I think the brakes did well. Even in the condition shown below, they stopped the trailer. And being used in salt water, their condition was impressive. Finally, they were easily rebuidable.

Up to this year, I’d replaced the Chinese bearings with Timkens and replaced the pads 3 1/2 years ago. I described in this post: Trailer Brakes /. Just for the record, the brakes are Reliable 6 lug 12” oil filled hubs, with Kodiak calipers and a Carlysile electric brake actuator. Hosed them off with fresh water whenever I could, but if the trailer sat at a launch ramp they often didn’t get washed down.

I pulled the wheels off, using a bar and length of plastic pipe to loosen the nuts. Works a lot better that an impact wrench, doesn’t snap off the studs. Here’s the before shot. Nice shot of rust, though they still stopped, I think.
old_brakes_2.jpg

And here’s a close up of the caliper.
old_brakes_1.jpg

So, now the choice is $650 for new Kodiak hubs and calipers. Or, what can we do to get them through another year or 2? Well, I pulled everything apart. The calipers were rusty on the outside, but the piston slid in smoothly, no leaks, since the pistons are stainless. Ordered new brake pads, they’re ceramics now, which wears forever. Here's a shot of the old and new pads. The old ones don't look that bad
pads_1.jpg

And then I took the discs to the local machine shop. After some discussion as to how long they were under water and when I found them, they surface ground them, as shown below.
new_drum.jpg

And on one side, the shims I installed where the rubber seals grooved the hub, were grooved themselves. The other side (also sleeved) was good. Go figure. So I had to chisel 2 of them off and install new sleeves. Thought about that for a week, took 5 min with a small chisel.
Shim_groove.jpg

Installed new sleeves, put the hubs on, added oil, installed pads, bolted on the calipers and now the brakes are as shown below.
new_brakes_1.sized.jpg

Replaced the brake fluid, sprayed a few rust spots and we’ll now see how that works. For their 9 year anniversary, I’m happy and we’ll see how long this rebuild lasts.

Boris
 
so are these all electric brakes? or electric/hydro combo? I am looking at re doing trailer breaks as the current drums no longer work. I want to go with electric, but due to 95% salt water use most have recommended doing the electric/hydraulic combo. the price for that is what has kept me from doing it yet. but If I could get 10 years out of electric brakes that could make the decision form me. Way to get some more life out of those brakes, from that first pic I would have thought they were done.
 
Some of the fresh water C Brat crowd claim that they are getting good results with the magnetic electric brakes--same as used in house trailers and 5th wheelers. When most of us who boat in salt water, speak of electric--we mean electric over hydraulic. The negative about electric brakes is that they still use drum systems, where you have the corrosion issues, hard to wash with fresh water etc. The disc systems are used with electric over hydraulic.

What Borris showed us, is that although disc brakes look bad/rusted he was able to revive them for a relatively small amount.
 
Bob has a good discussion and let me amplify.

I thought that it would be encouraging to show how well disk brakes last on a salt water trailer. Took work but not replacement. That was part of the message, as Bob noted. Exactly what work was the rest of the story.

Now to the actuation system. First, it doesn't matter what drives those disks: electric/hydraulic or surge. The hydraulic pressure operates the same parts. The rebuild was due to salt water immersion. If you install a electric/hydraulic system, it never touches salt water. Unless you submerge the trailer and truck, and I want a picture of that.

Second, there are no pure electric brakes for disks. Electric brakes, as on my travel trailer have a solenoid in the drum. When activated with an electric current (stepping on the brakes,) the solenoid drags a lever inside the drum, applying the brakes. That cannot work for a disk. And if you submerge those solenoids in salt water, you deserve what you get.

The electric over hydraulic brakes work by operating a hydraulic pump, which applies pressure to the disk pucks, just as any other hydraulic system: surge, vacuum, air etc. Their benefit is that they generate more stopping power than surge (higher pressure,) and are only applied when the tow vehicle has brakes applied. The first is the reason I have them, the second is a bonus.

Finally, one cannot use aluminum calipers on electric/hydraulic braking. Too much pressure. Those brakes are good.

Boris
 
Jake B":1ahad9qo said:
I want to go with electric, but due to 95% salt water use most have recommended doing the electric/hydraulic combo. the price for that is what has kept me from doing it yet.
Click to expand...

There is a middle ground, and I have found it to work very well on my 22's trailer: Disc surge brakes (hydraulic). I have a tandem axle trailer, and it came to me with brakes on only one axle, and that a set of rusted drums with a rusted coupler (the trailer had not been used, but had sat outside while the boat was stored inside). Obviously that setup wasn't going to be doing any braking!

So anyway, what I did was go with disc brakes, but not with electric-over-hydraulic (which is great, and a nice upgrade, but not necessary for the 22 in my experience). I simply put Kodiak disc brakes on both axles (vs. the drums were only on one axle), and got a new hydraulic coupler (plus new lines, etc.). This gave me hydraulic disc brakes on all four wheels, but they are surge brakes, not electric-over-hydraulic (so just hydraulic). This might be a useful setup for you, and is considerably less expensive than EOH.

(There is an electric solenoid that disengages the brakes when I want to back up, but the brakes themselves are hydraulic because the coupler is surge, not electric.)
 
Finally, one cannot use aluminum calipers on electric/hydraulic braking. Too much pressure.
Click to expand...

True. The S/S disc kits I installed a couple of yrs ago specifically state they cannot be used for e/h brake systems due to the higher fluid pressure.
 
Jake,

Re-reading the thread today, I see I misread your earlier post about wanting to go electric, but finding EOH a bit expensive. I somehow read that as you wanting to go with disc brakes (vs. drum), but finding EOH expensive, so that's why I mentioned the disc/surge brake option. Anyway, nevermind! I'll try to read more carefully in future. :oops:
 
Localboy;

At last I can ask someone who actually has done it. How are those stainless rotors doing? I understood that on motorcycles they warped, but those are thin rotors. Any comments?

Sunbeam;

You're absolutely correct. Can you stand it? Surge brakes work well with lighter boats. AND the discs and calipers can be the same for both surge or E/H; see localboy, above, for non-cast iron options. I was trying to show how cast iron disks survive in salt water launches and what I did to rebuild them. Both surge and E/H have their applications, which sometime overlap.

Boris
 
So far no problem. I haven't noticed any warping; no vibration when braking. And they have not rusted.

I needed new brakes IMO. The severe rust, rotor gouging, broken pads...
 
I have SS on several--although they are not truly stainless--they will get some surface rust. no problems with warping.
Their benefit is that they generate more stopping power than surge (higher pressure,) and are only applied when the tow vehicle has brakes applied.
Click to expand...
One area I may disagree with Borris on--I believe that with a controller, you can apply either electric (Drum, magnetic type), or electric over hydraulic by applying braking via the controller alone without applying the truck service brakes. For example my truck has a built in controller, and If I wanted to, I can use my hand and apply the electric (or electric hydraulic trailer brakes) this is a great safety feature on ice, or wet surfaces, to prevent fishtailing or jack knifing...
 
Bob is truly correct. All electric controllers that I've seen have a slide switch which allows one to apply the brakes independently of the tow vehicle. I've used this to straighten out the trailer a couple of times as Bob mentions. And you only do it a couple of times, trust me. Then you become a lot more careful.

One additional thought. With an electric controller you can adjust the gain, or the amount of pressure when you step on the brakes. And the trailer braking effort is proportional to the pedal pressure. Of, course, that also applies to surge brakes, to some extent.

I think we've covered trailer brakes in some detail. Anything else? I can't stand it, I'm agreeing with everyone.

Boris
 
lots of info, and we will see what the budget holds for brakes when it comes time to do them and see if we go EOH or surge. still impressive to see them clean up as well as they did.
 
Interesting stuff. I launched a month ago after sitting thru the winter. One wheel slid, wouldn't turn. After a few feet it did start to roll. I went 5 miles to launch and all wheels felt warm. I had the bearings replaced in Yuma last year and all new brake parts also (surge). Went to ss actuators as the factory stuff was junk ( Road Runner). All new back there. Did not do the master cylinder. Today I checked the trailer as next week I want the bearings and brakes checked for a long tow. No wheels turn today! One dead trailer! Dropped in to the mechanic and he said to bang on the brake drum as the pads likely rusted a bit Nada when I did so. The surge coupler seems to move only a half inch so I'm thinking it's got the brakes locked on. Any hints as to how to move a stuck trailer a half mile to the shop? Hiab to flatbed? Tow truck to dolly? I inserted a bar in the slot in front of master cylinder to see about pushing it back. No movement. Maybe open a line and drop the fluid? I have a couple thousand bucks in bearings/brakes in this new 2011 trailer so would avoid Road Runner in future. If I open a brake line the pressure drop should release the brakes? Other than that life aboard is peachy!! George
 
Try jacking one axle up and using a big breaker bar and impact socket on one of the lug nuts and see if you can break the break's loose that way.

Try not to break the lug bolt. :(

A sharp jerk instead of a steady pull.

Bill Kelleher
 
George- If Bill's method doesn't break it loose, I'd do what you suggested and crack the hydraulic line open a bit at the master (surge) actuator. I found it hard to believe what I saw when I first opened one to see the condition inside. Rust all over the place! Since it is the one component you didn't replace, I'd bet it's frozen up with rust and locked on with the pressure up. Where's all that moisture come from? Is the fluid hydroscopic? I don't know, but they sure get gummed/rusted/frozen up bad! And you can't tell that all is going on inside by looking at the actuator's outside, which looks just like it did last year, and the the year before that, etc., etc. Insidious mechanical failure from within! It's The Devil at Work, again, I'm sure!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
George/ghone;

First I assume you have drum brakes and really can't see in there. So, there could be problems in 2 places: the brakes or the bearings; they're seperate.

If it's the brakes, the shoes (not pads) indeed could be rusted in place. The shoe lining isn't iron, so they're not going to rust to the cast iron drum. The hydraulic pistons could be rusted, but they should be in a retracted position and not applying the brakes. I don't remember how far a surge master cylinder should move, but if it's stuck, what do you have to lose by cracking the nut? If fluid comes out, and the brakes release, you can get it to the dealer to fix the master cylinder, and would have to bleed them then. So loosen the hydraulic line and see if the master cylinder is jammed.

Now on to the bearings. If the bearings are frozen, you're scr--ed, because that means you have water in there and those bearings are trash. Pray for the brakes to be bad. And make sure you have good seals next time.

If you got the boat launched, something must of worked. So make sure the boat is back on so you have some traction to turn the wheels, take it to the dealer and say "what's wrong?"

BTW, all trailer mfg's buy their brakes from outside vendors. EZ Loader uses Reliable, which I've never heard of before, but there you are. Kodiak replaces them, and I assume you can get decent parts for yours. Discs appear to be simpler and one can see how they're working just by pulling off the wheel. In drums, everything is hidden and one can't see what's going on.

Good luck, Boris
 
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