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E-250 V8 -250 EB is it enough?
- Thread starter bshillam
- Start date
Edited because I missed something major:
I didn't notice at first, but I think you are asking about towing a 25 and not a 22.
Based on my experience (outlined below), I would say that would probably not work out well. I say that because on my rig there is no way I could have towed something around 8,000# and not been way over ratings. My 22 all-up is around 4,500# and that got me close on a few of the ratings. So adding 3,500# more would have put me way over. On the other hand, my van was a camper van and so it weighed around 7,600# (loaded) before I added the trailer. A fair bit of that was the camper outfitting itself, the rest was stuff/people. So maybe a stripped/cargo van could do it. One issue will be that the EB will cause your RAW (rear axle weight) to go up, due to the longer lever arm between the axle and the hitch (my new rig has a longer overhang so I had to calculate this and account for it before I decided to buy it).
If you just look at the tow rating, it looks like you could tow a house. But if you consider the other ratings that are necessary to meet (FAWR, RAWR, GVWR), then, at least for my rig, 5,000# was about my realistic tow limit. So there's no way I could have towed 3,000# more. I'll leave my original post below the asterisks just for the record, although at the time I wrote it I was thinking you were asking about a 22.
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My first tow rig for the 22 Cruiser was an E-250 camper van. It was an RB with the 5.4 V-8, so slightly different that way. E4OD transmission. It had around 100,000 miles on it when I bought it (but was well maintained and clean).
I found it to be an excellent tow (and camping) rig, and traveled over 10,000 miles with the C-Dory in tow, including plenty of mountain passes. Even with a friend and lots of gear aboard, we were comfortably under ratings (GAWR, GVWR, GCWR) (I weighed regularly at scales). 16-18 mpg on the highway not towing; 12.5 in town or towing. Never skipped a beat.
There are two main reasons I held out for a '97 or newer van:
1) OBD II and thus the ability to run a Scan Gauge II
2) Passenger side airbag
I moved on to a small Class C, but only because I'm spending a lot of time out and about. I still miss that van!
I didn't notice at first, but I think you are asking about towing a 25 and not a 22.
bshillam":qn91x7l1 said:I am looking at an E-250 to pull another C-Dory and wondering if it's enough Van to pull at 25.
Based on my experience (outlined below), I would say that would probably not work out well. I say that because on my rig there is no way I could have towed something around 8,000# and not been way over ratings. My 22 all-up is around 4,500# and that got me close on a few of the ratings. So adding 3,500# more would have put me way over. On the other hand, my van was a camper van and so it weighed around 7,600# (loaded) before I added the trailer. A fair bit of that was the camper outfitting itself, the rest was stuff/people. So maybe a stripped/cargo van could do it. One issue will be that the EB will cause your RAW (rear axle weight) to go up, due to the longer lever arm between the axle and the hitch (my new rig has a longer overhang so I had to calculate this and account for it before I decided to buy it).
If you just look at the tow rating, it looks like you could tow a house. But if you consider the other ratings that are necessary to meet (FAWR, RAWR, GVWR), then, at least for my rig, 5,000# was about my realistic tow limit. So there's no way I could have towed 3,000# more. I'll leave my original post below the asterisks just for the record, although at the time I wrote it I was thinking you were asking about a 22.
********
My first tow rig for the 22 Cruiser was an E-250 camper van. It was an RB with the 5.4 V-8, so slightly different that way. E4OD transmission. It had around 100,000 miles on it when I bought it (but was well maintained and clean).
I found it to be an excellent tow (and camping) rig, and traveled over 10,000 miles with the C-Dory in tow, including plenty of mountain passes. Even with a friend and lots of gear aboard, we were comfortably under ratings (GAWR, GVWR, GCWR) (I weighed regularly at scales). 16-18 mpg on the highway not towing; 12.5 in town or towing. Never skipped a beat.
There are two main reasons I held out for a '97 or newer van:
1) OBD II and thus the ability to run a Scan Gauge II
2) Passenger side airbag
I moved on to a small Class C, but only because I'm spending a lot of time out and about. I still miss that van!
I went back and edited my post (apparently while you were writing this) to reflect that. The "at 25" must have made me miss that you are thinking about a 25. Short answer: No. But I elaborated above.
For a bit more info, here is the data from my last scale weigh in late 2013 summarized. This is with the van loaded as for travel with two people. The boat has gear on it, but empty tanks. I am in the van, but my passenger is not.
The figures on the left are the max ratings for the van. The figures in parentheses are what I got at the scale, with the boat in tow. I have more data if you need it (say if you decide to go 22). Weights for the van without the trailer attached, etc.
As you can see, nothing is over ratings, but I can't imagine adding 3,500# without going way over. An EB would add to the effective weight on the rear axle because the wheelbase is the same, so all the added van is overhang and thus multiplies the weight on the rear axle (i.e. adds more than it really is).
Van specs
GVWR 8,600 (weight when towing 8,180#)
GAWR-F 3,700 (weight when towing 3,340#)
GAWR-R 5,120 (weight when towing 4,840#)
GCWR 13,000 (weight when towing 12,360#)
For a bit more info, here is the data from my last scale weigh in late 2013 summarized. This is with the van loaded as for travel with two people. The boat has gear on it, but empty tanks. I am in the van, but my passenger is not.
The figures on the left are the max ratings for the van. The figures in parentheses are what I got at the scale, with the boat in tow. I have more data if you need it (say if you decide to go 22). Weights for the van without the trailer attached, etc.
As you can see, nothing is over ratings, but I can't imagine adding 3,500# without going way over. An EB would add to the effective weight on the rear axle because the wheelbase is the same, so all the added van is overhang and thus multiplies the weight on the rear axle (i.e. adds more than it really is).
Van specs
GVWR 8,600 (weight when towing 8,180#)
GAWR-F 3,700 (weight when towing 3,340#)
GAWR-R 5,120 (weight when towing 4,840#)
GCWR 13,000 (weight when towing 12,360#)
I found that many RV's and camper vans can handle towing up to around 5,000# (although not all can so you do still have to check/weigh even for a 22). But once you get above that it gets challenging to find a camper/tow rig (barring a larger diesel pusher). This is one reason I didn't buy a Cape Cruiser or Venture 23. Even that additional 1,000# would have messed up my vehicle choices -- and the 25 is more like 4,000# additional (over the 22). It takes a prodigious tow rig, and even more so if you try to combine it with a camper. Not that I blame you for trying, as I really enjoy traveling with the camper/boat combo (plus having the option to go with just the camper for land traveling).
An RB van would be better in giving you lower rear axle weight, but then of course you lose two feet of van. Perhaps an E-350 van would work? (I haven't looked into those vis-a-vis a 25, since I have a 22.)
An RB van would be better in giving you lower rear axle weight, but then of course you lose two feet of van. Perhaps an E-350 van would work? (I haven't looked into those vis-a-vis a 25, since I have a 22.)
journey on
New member
That E-250 is the same running gear as a F-250. Also, I owned a 351 V-8, back in the 70's and it was a strong engine. Presently, I tow a C-Dory 25 with a '06 F-250 and the 334 V-8.
So, my opinion is that the E-250 can easily tow a C-Dory 25 with a few caveats. A '96 is 18 years old and if it's worn out that's a problem. Second is having good (electric-hydraulic) brakes on the trailer. And have the transmission checked. An idle comment is that '96 must have been the last year or so for the 351.
Of course, a new truck/van is certainly better. If you can do that, go for it.
Boris
So, my opinion is that the E-250 can easily tow a C-Dory 25 with a few caveats. A '96 is 18 years old and if it's worn out that's a problem. Second is having good (electric-hydraulic) brakes on the trailer. And have the transmission checked. An idle comment is that '96 must have been the last year or so for the 351.
Of course, a new truck/van is certainly better. If you can do that, go for it.
Boris
When we ordered our 25, we already owned a Leisure Travel campervan on a one-ton van chassis. It was on the Dodge chassis, and it was not the equivalence of the one ton Dodge pickup. Ours had the heavy-duty towing package, and it still only allowed for around 8,000 pounds of towing capacity (not including extra load in the van).
At the time, I was told by the factory that the 25 would be "6,500 pounds all up on the trailer." They missed that by a ton. Before our boat was ready, I had checked with other 25 owners and was finding that NO ONE had a 25 that was 6,500 pounds all up on the trailer. Most were 8,000 pounds or more. Ours was 8,700 pounds last time we weighed it (light on fuel, quite a bit of boat stuff in the bed of our diesel pickup).
A van conversion is going to be heavier than a regular van; besides the camping facilities, there will be holding tanks and personal gear.
We talked with our service facility (Dodge/Jeep/GMC) before committing to towing with the van... they did NOT recommend it, saying that the van transmission was not up to the same loads as the one ton truck. That led us to buying a diesel pickup.
We really enjoyed that Class B campervan - it was a great road-traveling machine. All the facilities of a Class A motorhome in a size that you could park anywhere. Had it been up to towing the CD-25, it would have been a GREAT land/water combination.
As it turns out, the 3/4 ton diesel pickup has been a good match-up with the 25. I don't regret having enough tow vehicle when it comes to safely moving the 25 coast to coast or the Gulf to the PNW.
Good luck with the search,
Jim B.
At the time, I was told by the factory that the 25 would be "6,500 pounds all up on the trailer." They missed that by a ton. Before our boat was ready, I had checked with other 25 owners and was finding that NO ONE had a 25 that was 6,500 pounds all up on the trailer. Most were 8,000 pounds or more. Ours was 8,700 pounds last time we weighed it (light on fuel, quite a bit of boat stuff in the bed of our diesel pickup).
A van conversion is going to be heavier than a regular van; besides the camping facilities, there will be holding tanks and personal gear.
We talked with our service facility (Dodge/Jeep/GMC) before committing to towing with the van... they did NOT recommend it, saying that the van transmission was not up to the same loads as the one ton truck. That led us to buying a diesel pickup.
We really enjoyed that Class B campervan - it was a great road-traveling machine. All the facilities of a Class A motorhome in a size that you could park anywhere. Had it been up to towing the CD-25, it would have been a GREAT land/water combination.
As it turns out, the 3/4 ton diesel pickup has been a good match-up with the 25. I don't regret having enough tow vehicle when it comes to safely moving the 25 coast to coast or the Gulf to the PNW.
Good luck with the search,
Jim B.
journey on":3gtiapqw said:That E-250 is the same running gear as a F-250. Also, I owned a 351 V-8, back in the 70's and it was a strong engine. Presently, I tow a C-Dory 25 with a '06 F-250 and the 334 V-8.
So, my opinion is that the E-250 can easily tow a C-Dory 25 with a few caveats.
Boris,
I think there is more to it than "a strong engine." Having owned an E-250HD camper van (towed my 22 over 10,000 miles with it), I have to completely disagree. I can't speak to the similarities or differences with an F-250, but as you can see in the scale weight numbers and Ford chassis ratings for the E-250 I posted above, I was darned close to being right up against the rated weights towing my 22. How could one "easily" add 4,000# lbs. to my figures above and not be grossly overweight? With a longer overhang to boot? (which exponentially adds weight to the rear axle). I don't mean to come on too strong, but I disagree with your advice.
journey on
New member
Well, you need a good engine to pull a 25 C-Dory, a heavy duty rear axle to handle the torque and a stiff suspension to control the weight.
I think an E-250 has the 3/4 ton truck suspension (or F-250?), a strong engine and a full floating rear axle. So what is wrong with that?
I've towed Journey On with a '63 Chevvie 1/2 ton, short wheelbase AND a 350. Worked well, except for the fuel injection I added. And I don't want to know what the mfg's rating was.
Boris
I think an E-250 has the 3/4 ton truck suspension (or F-250?), a strong engine and a full floating rear axle. So what is wrong with that?
I've towed Journey On with a '63 Chevvie 1/2 ton, short wheelbase AND a 350. Worked well, except for the fuel injection I added. And I don't want to know what the mfg's rating was.
Boris
The reality is that the badging can be very misleading...all F-250's or E-250's are not created equally. Further complicated by model year variations. Just a quick example...2009 E-250's were built with 5 different spring packs and 4 different radiators...depending on how the truck was spec'd. So to say that a E-250 will do this or that job really doesn't get it done...it's all about which E-250...which equipment...which model year. The extreme case on this concept is the F-450 of late...depending on model year and spec...completely different trucks. And in some cases the F-450 has grossly lower ratings than the F-350. Now if you are buying new...you can spec based on your requirements...but in the used market...you need to pay attention to spring packs...gears...brake sizes...it gets complicated. But the badge on the body does not tell you much.