Don’t want to drill holes!

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The last three C-Dory’s that we have owned, had various holes that needed filled/repaired.

Between navionics, down riggers, rod holders, antennas, bilge ports and holes drilled for who knows what, over three hundred holes of various diameters have been filled, blended, polish out and made to disappear.

The 2006 CD 16’ Angler that we have now is absolutely perfect (only 115 hours on the 40 Honda) with no holes drilled anywhere.

The fall fishing season has started here on the Mississippi River and while enjoying the protection from rain etc., I quickly realise that rod holders for fishing rods and landing net are needed.

I’m trying to come up with any ideas that would resolve the need “without drilling holes” or before building a box/bench.

So what have other C-Brats done to handle fishing rods and landing net without drilling holes, any and all ideas are welcome, pictures would help.

Best regards,

Ron Fisher
 
I'm a novice compared to you and the majority of the C-Brats, but Les Lampman gave me one of those "Ah Ha!" moments when he told me how he and his team prepares holes on the Marinaut. He drills holes slightly larger then the diameter required and fills it in with epoxy. And after drilling the hole right in the center through that epoxy, the hole remains sealed by the epoxy, and more importantly -- the area around the hole will not be crushed when tightening bolts. The Marinaut is cored with closed cell foam, but in C-Dory's with sections that contain end-grain balsa, it would seem that pre-filling holes would be even more imperative. So if holes are properly prepared, why is it an issue to have holes, since one could go trouble free for decades? It would be interesting to see what other C-Dory owners feel about this.

Rich
 
C-Nile":3eusdx77 said:
So if holes are properly prepared, why is it an issue to have holes, since one could go trouble free for decades? It would be interesting to see what other C-Dory owners feel about this.
Click to expand...

I can't speak directly to the rod-holder/net question, since I'm not an angler and can't completely visualize what you need, but I can chime in on this question.

Basically, I mentally divide holes into above-the-waterline and below-the-waterline.

For above the waterline: I don't worry excessively about making holes, since they can always be filled later; but, on the other hand, neither do I make holes if they can be reasonably avoided or there is another equally good (or better) way, just because.... well... if there never was a hole there is nothing to fix (or have to look at) when things change.

However, if the way to do something is served best by making a hole, I go ahead and make one. If the area is cored, I do as you say and overdrill/fill/re-drill. I don't like any holes that leave core exposure. I know I can repair it later if necessary.

Below the waterline, my bare minimum would be to overdrill/fill/re-drill, but I would feel even better completely closing out (eliminating) the core, because epoxy annuli can fail below the waterline (although they don't all fail, and they are much , much better than doing nothing or just counting on caulk to seal a below-the-waterline penetration).

***********

As I've been improving/re-fitting my 22, I have overdrill/fill/re-drilled any holes that need to be there (cleats, etc.); but I have also been using things such as Weld Mount studs and footman loops, and fiberglass angle or stock glued in place, when such would avoid holes I didn't feel were necessary or optimum.

I don't know that I would do that on areas of cosmetic gelcoat though, because removing a Weld Mount and repairing the gelcoat would be harder than simply filling a disused hole and re-gelcoating that.

Recently, I acquired a "Snad" to check it out. These are plastic snap studs/females that attach to a surface such as gelcoat with VHB tape (that is already on the back of the Snad when you buy it). The base is larger diameter than a regular metal screw snap stud though, so I don't see them as preferable in all situations, but probably very useful in some (thin surface, tropics where SS rusts quickly, etc.).

Maybe that was a bit long since I started out by saying I couldn't answer the OP's question :wink: Hopefully it helped somewhat anyway.

Sunbeam :hot
 
There's a few things you can do for rod holders that don't require any drilling however to get rod holders where you typically want them (e.g. near the aft corners of the cockpit) will likely require a hole for something. The places where you can mount rod holders w/o holes are the hand rails on the top of the cabin and the hand holds on the bulkhead where you enter the cabin.

On the hand rails on the top of the cabin, you can use the same mounts I used on the Tomcat - CE Smith Top Mount rod holders. These are a bit spendy (around $110/ea but you can find some online at a discount). These fit the 7/8" hand rails quite nicely.

The other option is to use adjustable side mount ones[/ulr] on the hand holds in the cockpit. If you rotate them properly, you can still get the slant back canvas past them and yet have them point a net or a rod slightly out the side. I use these at net holders. Again, I bought CE Smith and again they were spendy but I found the gold ones for around $70/ea online. I made the mistake of buying some West Marine "heavy duty" ones that failed after just a few trips and which I replaced with CE Smith. Don't forget to use locktite on the bolts.

Here's images of what I have on the boat (the net holder image shows the cheap Westmarine one's that have since been replaced).

Top mount on the hand rail.
RailMountedRodHolders.jpg

Adjustable mid mounts on the hand holds.
NetHolder.jpg
 
The above are good for storage of rods and nets but for trolling you probably want something near the transom (however, I should note that I've trolled for tuna and salmon with rods mounted on the roof locations so it can be done). To get rod holders near the transom, I'd probably mount a rail that is set just behind where your slant back canvas is and mount rod holders to that. A rail will require some holes but if properly designed, you'll likely want that rail permanently attached anyway. Then, there's a huge number of options (many inexpensive) that you can use to mount a rod holder. The rail will also allow you to mount a table or a grill or any of the many other accessories designed for rail mounts.
 
Thank you for the comments so far and hope there are more

The trick about fixing holes and fiberglass damage for me was to find a fiberglass supplier that had products available in small quantities and offered very competent product technical support that would advise me through several boat restoration projects.

The best material and technical support came from a California company that caters to the surf board building industry/hobby.

There is a confusing array of products to choose from and someone like me needed someone to direct them concerning which products to purchase to do particular jobs/applications.

I would call an 800 number, ask for a tech named Ge Ge and would tell her what I was trying to accomplish and in a few days receive a package of the proper product and instructions to do whatever job I was trying to accomplish.

After that particular stage or step was completed, I would call Ge Ge again and tell her what the next task was and another package of the material necessary to complete that part of project would show up.

Yes, the materials are much different for above waterline and below waterline applications (below waterline were epoxies and polyester/gel coat for above waterline).

The process is simple enough, but the real trick for me was to learn how to match color.

The gel coat came in white and by adding a tiny touch of mustard yellow, the C-Dory off white could be matched (a tiny amount of color goes a long way).

Anyway there is much on line about repairing fiberglass damage and repairing gel coat.

Not all owners are careful with their boats and some do indiscriminately drill holes that are later abandoned and covered with a screw head, filled with a dab of silicone or poorly repaired, with some guy (like me) “that cares” comes along later and repairs those hole/s which is/are really damage if not in use or needed.

I had reviewed the rail mounted rod holders but wanted to know if I was headed in the right direction or if other options exists that I had not considered.

Best regards,

Ron Fisher
_________________
1983 22' Classic, (R-Dory) sold April 2011
1990 16' Angler, (Lil Sis) sold January 2012
2004 19' Angler, (Game On) purchased January 2012
2006 16' Angler, (Gra-C) purchased October 2012

"We Have Met The Enemy and He Is Us"
 
I've mounted pole holders, etc on a 2x6 that spans from one gunnel to the other, and just clamp it to the gunnels. That way it is totally removable without leaving a trace. Put carpet or the like between the board and the gunnel so not to leave any marks. Just my $.02

Ron
 
Connie Fisher":2d2zwwad said:
Not all owners are careful with their boats and some do indiscriminately drill holes that are later abandoned and ... filled with a dab of silicone...
Click to expand...

:amgry

I hear you on that one. Augh.
 
Have not done rod holders, but have done some add ons. Used 3M VHB double stick tape to mount my PA/hailer horn. It has stayed through several tows of up to 60mph of over 100 miles. I have also used it to mount my weather center on the inside cabin wall. That was done with small pieces of wood, VHB's to the wall and then Velcro to the Weather center unit. Works well to remove and bring home for the winter, and to get to the back to change batteries. I also used it to hold a bowline hanger to the stbd forward cabin window post. It is still there too.

I have also used 4200 fast set for some blocks to mount my Racors to, and for mounting 2 bilge pumps and a GPS antenna (mushroom top) onto the cabin brow.

Still have some things to do, including backing for the cleats and rebedding them. (Doubt that can be done without holes though :roll: )

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

January_2010_344.thumb.jpg
 
Someone mentioned overdrilling holes, filling with epoxy, then drilling the desired hole size. This is good, but it leaves the epoxy plug prone to popping out or just moving laterally and breaking the bond to the fiberglass.

A slightly more time consuming but better approach (IMHO) is to drill the desired size, use a dremel with an appropriate bit to undercut the balsa (or whatever core), so that there's a cylindrical void between the glass layers that's larger than the outer holes. Fill this with epoxy, then redrill. Now you have a plug that is 'captured' between the fiberglass layers, cannot come out, and still provides crush protection.

Here's a link to an article that describes the process in detail:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/sealing_the_deck
 
ferret30":3npszksq said:
Someone mentioned overdrilling holes, filling with epoxy, then drilling the desired hole size. This is good, but it leaves the epoxy plug prone to popping out or just moving laterally and breaking the bond to the fiberglass.

A slightly more time consuming but better approach (IMHO) is to drill the desired size, use a dremel with an appropriate bit to undercut the balsa (or whatever core), so that there's a cylindrical void between the glass layers that's larger than the outer holes. Fill this with epoxy, then redrill. Now you have a plug that is 'captured' between the fiberglass layers, cannot come out, and still provides crush protection.

Here's a link to an article that describes the process in detail:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/sealing_the_deck
Click to expand...

ferret-

This process is exactly what Bob (Thataway) has been describing for years!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Sea Wolf":33krkmi9 said:
ferret30":33krkmi9 said:
Someone mentioned overdrilling holes, filling with epoxy, then drilling the desired hole size. This is good, but it leaves the epoxy plug prone to popping out or just moving laterally and breaking the bond to the fiberglass.

A slightly more time consuming but better approach (IMHO) is to drill the desired size, use a dremel with an appropriate bit to undercut the balsa (or whatever core), so that there's a cylindrical void between the glass layers that's larger than the outer holes. Fill this with epoxy, then redrill. Now you have a plug that is 'captured' between the fiberglass layers, cannot come out, and still provides crush protection.

Here's a link to an article that describes the process in detail:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/sealing_the_deck
Click to expand...

ferret-

This process is exactly what Bob (Thataway) has been describing for years!

Joe. :teeth :thup
Click to expand...

Yes, I first heard about it reading on here, but later I saw the link which describes it in great detail.
 
Sea Wolf":s8u83dr6 said:
ferret30":s8u83dr6 said:
Someone mentioned overdrilling holes, filling with epoxy, then drilling the desired hole size. This is good, but it leaves the epoxy plug prone to popping out or just moving laterally and breaking the bond to the fiberglass.

A slightly more time consuming but better approach (IMHO) is to drill the desired size, use a dremel with an appropriate bit to undercut the balsa (or whatever core), so that there's a cylindrical void between the glass layers that's larger than the outer holes. Fill this with epoxy, then redrill. Now you have a plug that is 'captured' between the fiberglass layers, cannot come out, and still provides crush protection.k

Here's a link to an article that describes the process in detail:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/sealing_the_deck
Click to expand...

ferret-

This process is exactly what Bob (Thataway) has been describing for years!

Joe. :teeth :thup
Click to expand...

Brilliant idea!
 
Try seasucker vacuum mounts (Seasucker.com). I Have used them for rod holders and fender attachment points. Expensive, but for those of us that avoid drilling holes at all cost, these do work.
 
Captain Ron,

Now this is the kind of information that I was after and why I ask the original question/s.

Yes, this is pricey stuff but items can be moved from place to place, boat to boat.

Just purchased rod and cup holders from this company and would rather purchase these items than drill holes and perhaps later wish that I would have mounted the item/s somewhere else.

Good job Ron, thank you, just the kind of information that I wanted/needed.

Regards,

Ron Fisher
 
ferret30":31gkt4ma said:
Someone mentioned overdrilling holes, filling with epoxy, then drilling the desired hole size. This is good, but it leaves the epoxy plug prone to popping out or just moving laterally and breaking the bond to the fiberglass.

A slightly more time consuming but better approach (IMHO) is to drill the desired size, use a dremel with an appropriate bit to undercut the balsa (or whatever core), so that there's a cylindrical void between the glass layers that's larger than the outer holes. Fill this with epoxy, then redrill. Now you have a plug that is 'captured' between the fiberglass layers, cannot come out, and still provides crush protection.
Click to expand...

Although I haven't really seen any "plain" overdrilled/filled holes pop out, I do generally try to do my "overdrilling" in the latter way (sometimes it's not practical, but usually it is).

One other alternative is to come up from below with a hole saw, which both forms and "undercuts" the hole at the same time. I do this typically when a backing block of some kind will be going on the bottom side anyway (such as, I just reinstalled my stern cleats - overdrilled with the hole saw from below, filled, then added a fiberglass backing block to the underside before re-fastening them.

I hadn't wanted to clutter the thread by going into how to overdrill, but perhaps I was too brief and that led to assumptions - sorry.
 
Ron,
I guess it makes a difference if you fixing the boat up to keep for yourself or are you trying to add some accessories to make the boat more marketable? If it's for yourself why not set it up they way you want it? It's just fiberglass. For me, I always thought a radar arch or a rocket launcher with rod holders looked nice. The rail mounted stuff for me, looks tacky IMHO. As for trolling the ones that require gunnels to be drilled out for a flush mounted rod holder I think are the way to go. There is a company out of the west coast who make a whole assortment of sockets with various mounts that include cleats,rod holders, downrigger mounts flag holders and so on. They are pricey but are one of the better options if you choose to get spendy. Check out their website . WWW.burnewiin.com
D.D.
 
D.D., Thank you for the comments.

Through my/our many renovation projects on vehicles and properties, it seems like we have never stopped fixing somebody's good ideas that ultimately did not work out to be good ideas.

At the same time, I myself have regretted drilled holes or getting all involved with some alteration that did not work as intended and took much time and effort to reverse.

This particular boat is absolutely perfect and as clean as it came from the factory.

The idea of adding needed or wanted assessors that can be attached and then removed without damaging surfaces seems like a plus to me and something worth trying.

I’ve enjoyed the exchange and have ordered some items that can be attached in some manner without drilling holes, I’ll advise how they work out.

Regards,

Ron Fisher
 
UPDATE

Thank you Captain Ron for bringing the “SeaSucker” vacuum mount systems to my attention (Seasucker.com).

I ordered one of the #5002 3-Rod Holder with single 6” SeaSucker and two #5306 Swing-Arm Cup Holders.

Yes, they do seem pricey at first, BUT, they are top quality and worked perfectly from the jump, I would rate them as a true ten on the scale of zero to ten, where ten is the best quality.

The “SeaSucker” vacuum mounted accessories are perfect solution to avoid drilling holes.

Without hesitation, I/we will buy more as needed.

Regards,

Ron Fisher
_________________
1983 22' Classic, (R-Dory) sold April 2011
1990 16' Angler, (Lil Sis) sold January 2012
2004 19' Angler, (Game On) purchased January 2012
2006 16' Angler, (Gra-C) purchased October 2012

"We Have Met The Enemy and He Is Us"
 
I have net holder, club holder, pole holders, and a table mounted on the rear of my 16' Angler and did not drill any holes in the boat. There are pictures in my album if you want to check it out. It's been on the boat for years and has been through the roughest water (West Coast Vancouver Island) and logging roads imaginable and has never come loose. The aluminum unistrut channels allow easy moving of pole holders, etc. if you want to relocate things. It may be an alternative if the vacuum holders don't work out.

Al
 
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