Docking Technique

Jay and Jolee-

Thanks!

Here's an idea! Let's have a DOCKING RODEO at one of the C-Brat get togethers!

We could have a series of set maneuvers for each boat to go through and judges with point cards!

Best Score wins!

Should be at least 3 maybe 5 trials of different types of docking, e.g.,

1. Docking abeam from leeward.

2. Docking abeam from windward.

3. Entering an upwind slip from abeam (includes the 90 degree turn).

4. Picking up and tying to a bouy.

5. Backing upwind through a chicane (where each alternate bouy in a line must be passed on the opposite side of the boat).

Morre ideas?

Might be intimidating to some, but would certainly be fun to watch and a good camaradie generator!

What do you all think?

Joe.
 
Good stuff! Steve (Seabran), good advice also, don't have to put it right where you want to end up -- just walk it there. Novel idea, like one that you say "why didn't I think of that?". I think it's because everyone's watching you 'subconsciously' want to make a good impression -- who knows?

I've had many boats, never a twin engine before. I find myself getting into real tight situations, wind, current all varying. I try and think about how each engine contributes to forward and reverse motion, one at a time, or both, turned or straight. Takes my pea brain a long time to figure it out, then even then I'll get it totally backwards. I really like the extra manueverability of the twins, but got to understand the paddlewheel effect (all boats) when moving slowly forward or reverse, and that I have non-counterrotating props (both clockwise).

These boats do blow bow-away and even the whole boat quite fast, much faster than Deep-V's or heavier boats as most have mentioned. Anybody tried to move the boat sideways upwind with twins, not walking particularly. I've thought if I had a port wind and just wanted to nudge sideways a couple of feet I'd turn the wheel all the way to port, put the port engine in reverse and starboard forward. The port engine would pull the stern to the left (paddlewheel) and back along with the bow to the left, the starboard would push the stern forward, correcting for the port engine, and bow more left to counteract windage. Wouldn't this work?

Going starboard in a starboard wind would be much more difficult with my CW props though, and of course wind speeds above a certain point would be hopeless.

Steve
 
This is a great thread. It caused me to think of a couple of other situations.

To expand on the B-C rule about an audience, the first time you're attending a C-Brat gathering you're almost sure to have problems. New boat, nervous, think everyone else knows what they're doing, going to fast, spouse giving directions, you're probably going to blow it. The great thing is that there will be a dozen people there helping you to get into the space and they're just admiring your boat, not judging your skills.

Another tough situation is when the wind is behind you coming into the dock. I always leave my GPS on to monitor speed over ground. If I don't, I'm always coming in faster than I want. My worst crash landings have been with wind behind and off the side of the stern away from the docks. If I don't watch it, I'm doing 3-4 knots and think I'm doing 1 1/2 or 2. I have to watch the speed, because my eye doesn't always tell me how fast I'm approaching the dock.
Lyle
 
Lyle, I've found it best to always come to a COMPLETE STOP, a little way off the dock, tnen nudge it forward. Worked with Aircraft Carriers, Destroyers and even Frigates. If it doesn't work, you can always say "Frigit"...

I can recall a Destroyer coming in too fast and the Old Man (Captain) telling the OOD (Officer of the Deck, the one "conning the ship") to let go an anchor. Well, he did, but they were going to dock Portside to and he let the Port anchor go and droped it right on a telephone booth on the pier and then proceeded to take out about 15 feet of pier and pilings. :shock:

I was the Chief Engineer..

Charlie
 
Charlie!

I thought you were on the bridge. Been teaching folks for years to come to a dead stop before making a dock -- see what the current, wind, etc. do to the vessel, and only then make your approach. In NY pier area, the current working on the hull is NOT the same as the surface current. Easy to get an unpleasant surprise!

Same with the CD - I like to stop (a la Lyle) and see what's really happening - then adjust and go. And the old Navy term you used - don't approach a dock faster than you want to hit it - always applies.

My fishing boat, a single engine inboard Pierson (Bill, don't ban me!!) always backs one of two directions, either to port, or the way you don't want to go. You really must pre-plan each approach to save fiberglass. The vectored thrust of an ouboard sure makes docking easy!!!

Dusty
 
Dusty, they didn't let me come up to the bridge very often. Usually only when one of my snipes was at Captain's Mast, which was more frequent than we'd all have liked.

Beats me why those kids reenlisted when they were working 18 hour in 125-140 degree temps with 90% humidity. The folks today with gas turbines in modules have it very easy in comparison. Still not a bundle of joy!



charlie
 
Dora~Jean":3b1olmxq said:
I've had many boats, never a twin engine before. I find myself getting into real tight situations, wind, current all varying. I try and think about how each engine contributes to forward and reverse motion, one at a time, or both, turned or straight. I'd turn the wheel all the way to port, put the port engine in reverse and starboard forward.
Steve
Click to expand...

Steve,
I'm still "working" on my "technique" with my "twins". So, I find myself attempting to dock the majority of the time now without ever "turning the wheel". The wheel is set for "straight on" engines and the "wheel" is not touched again! Then I forward/reverses engines to turn the vessel as needed. The lack of the starboard engine not being "counter clockwise" is not a hinderance in the maneuver with the C-Dory. My technique is to come in at a slight angle to the dock with the "dockside" engine in forward gear and the "non-dockside" engine in neutral....then at the "proper" moment slip the "non-dockside" engine in reverse and the vessel "ideally" and with fairly good success spins the boat into place next to the dock. (Speed of engines may be adjusted as needed).
When, I'm "exploring" narrow channels (such as between banks of slips in a marina)...I have the wheel set for "straight on engines" with only one engine in forward the other in neutral. When I'm ready to "spin" to the opposite direction to exit the channel, I slip the "neutral" engine into reverse and adjust only its speed to accomodate a "spin" and then when I'm about to complete the 180 degree spin, it goes back into neutral and enough forward power (if needed) to make the vessel go straight ahead.

(I don't know if this is a clear enough explanation....but it works reasonably well for me in reality). (Oh, how much more fun it is to be "married" to twins! :smilep )
 
Just to underscore a few comments in this post:

1. Try always to come into a dock from windward and/or up current.

2. Have fenders ready. I use SS clips on mine so switching from starboard to port (or visa versa) takes seconds.

3. I sometimes use a short (3') spring line I clip onto the amidships cleat and lasso a cleat (hanging out the window) as I come in. Most often though, I will attach a stern line first. Then I will turn toward the dock and use the engines in forward to bring to boat (fenders) gently but solidly against the dock. That is only time I ever leave my boat (to tie off the bow line), ie, I have at least one line attached. The reverse can be used as well (bow line attached first - usually by the Mate), then point the outboards at the dock and slip it into reverse to bring the stern agianst the dock. No violent moves are needed; just give the "flatboat" time to respond. This rope + engines trick is pretty handy in other situations, eg, leaving a dock when the wind is pressing you against it (cast of stearn, point the outboards away from the dock and apply enough throttle to swing the stern away from the dock, slip the bow line and back out into the channel).

4. Controlling speed is vital; bear in mind wind and/or current may be all you need. "Nudging" the boat in by shifting in a out of gear is important.

5. I have twins but rarely use them to maneuver for docking. (I use them instead for pivoting, trailering.) As long as I can get one line on, I will always dock. That's the key.

6. ASK for help! Sometimes dock watchers are being so amused they forget to grab a line!

7. Be sure your mate/guests know what expected of them - BEFORE getting to the dock. Anyone not involved in docking should stay put. Movement in the boat can outsteer the helm in tight situtions.
 
This conversation has been good for me. I thought I was the only person who ever had trouble docking! haha.

My Nimble Arctic pilothouse sailboat was a nightmare. Coming in to the dock I had to be extra careful because I could not stop all that weight quickly if I built up too much speed. In two years of docking I ALWAYS got hit with a strong crosswind 3 seconds before entering my slip. IT NEVER FAILED!!!

My Nor'Sea 27 is heavier but is a breeze to dock because the diesel inboard will stop her in a heartbeat. Drive in to the slip, hit reverse & step off. Sort of like Captain Ron in the movie, eh?

Up until this evening I was looking forward to getting my C-Dory, thinking it would be easy to dock with a real motor that really turned.

Ok people. I will be at the June event. Please help me!

Just look for the boat with bed matresses hanging off both sides and a pillow hanging off the bow. That will be me.

Al
 
Dave, good explanation, understood completely. That's pretty much how I operate also, 1 engine only, keeps my 'variables' limited. And, that's also how I dock to port, port engine only, slight angle, port engine in reverse at the right moment.

I'm just wondering for a tight slip or between boats how I could better utilize the twins to position better. Might have to get a book on twins, but most likely they'll be for bigger boats and have counterrotating props. I'll do a little research...

Steve
 
Anna Leigh":2gvv2qz0 said:
(Thanks Dave I needed this post to get me to 700)
Click to expand...

David, I'm glad that I was able to motivate you to achieve post number 700!

Since you and Pat share ownership of the same brewery, I've been trying to discern why Pat is able to post more than twice the number as you. So far I've come up with only two possibilities.

1) You are the only one working and brewing up the brew, so don't have the time to post as often. :roll:

2) You are too busy drinking the brew and because of the 6.6% alcohol content unable to crawl over to a computer to post. :wink

Choice number 2 being said, I think I'll crawl downstairs to the refer and pull out another Wildcat IPA and consume it. :smilep
 
Dave,

I have an alternate theory - perhaps Pat consumes more beer and the extra "lubrication" makes him more chatty. Hmmm, how do we test these competing hypotheses?.......
 
I received a PM this morning (a PM in the AM?) from another owner (who was also a sailor), asking how I'm doing with docking our new 25... well it certainly has been interesting. It took us a while to get comfortable with each sailboat, and I am hip-deep into my learning curve with Wild Blue. Here's my response:


Well, our "arrivals" have been interesting. There is a definite transition from having a rudder, huh? :wink: The first time I pulled off power and turned the wheel was an eye opener. We have been fortunate that, so far with our learning curve, we haven't had to deal with a great amount of wind... yet. There have been a couple "push offs" and some moments of breath-holding... especially as the new gelcoat gets close to the BIG pilings, encrusted with oyster shells! With 4 whole days of experience, I an finding that I have to do the opposite of our sailboat technique (slow speed, in neutral much of the time, still with decent steerage) and use a bit more throttle. After a couple of "What the hell was that?" arrival comments from the Blonde, I did get a "That was nice!" as we pulled up to the pumpout station yesterday. Of course, no one else was around to see it. I'll have to work at it to convince her that it wasn't a fluke... 'cause coming back into the slip (and making plenty of leeway through the turn) was less than elegant.

We have left our camperback canvas in place all the time so far... and that makes docking even more interesting, since Joan has fewer options for being able to fend off. But, we are enjoying the extra living space, so I have been doing my best to deal with it.

It's a whole different world. Some of our sailing buddies have asked for photos and seem to be intrigued with the cabin space (and especially the inside steering). We are enjoying the expansive view from the cabin and not feeling like we are in a cave.

Our transient slip here in Olympia gives us a good view of the ramp... so I know I am not alone in my less-than-elegant technique. :wink But I will continue to work on it. I watched a guy with a 40+ foot older boat rotate it in the ramp area (no thrusters) - very impressive. My mind did wander into schemes of daggerboard, rudder, and a mast on this boat... yeah, probably would mess up the nice lines, huh? In the meantime, let's stay in touch and trade techniques.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Jim, thanks for taking the time to keep us filled in on your exploits, very interesting ...and entertaining [sorry] but we have all been there one time or another.

I can impart a little that might help, the 22's have nearly identical charactersistics and have been covered profusely throughout this site.

As you've probably read, the wind significantly affects these hulls, cabin windage forward and light front ends (and no keel!) seem to be the culprit. Best I can offer is that you'll have to be somewhat more aggressive than a sailboat in windy situations, it won't want to hold any heading towards the wind, even straight upwind (slowly). Best I've found as approaching a dock is to head directly into the wind trying to hold a course then during last few feet make your corrections to turn the boat, neutral then reverse engine(s) while turning so boat will slow and turn stern towards the dock (opposite steering direction while in reverse).

I always review what I plan to do with my first mate just before docking...no matter what. I also tell him/her which line I'd like tied first too: If docking with the wind forward of beam, then I have them tie the mid-ship line off first, if aft of beam then it's the stern cleat.

Experience is best teacher on every boat as you're learning in spades.
 
Note: I am asking a related question about "undocking." Because of the length of this thread (which has been very helpful), I am posting my question as a "new topic."
 
Hi all,
I’ve enjoyed these posts and especially the comments from the Marine Engineer (ME) and Sawdust. This just had to draw out memories and laughter (wasn’t so funny then).
Docking is an art form and we all aspirer to be good at it and even if we don’t make a stylish landing remember to see the funny side as you learn.
Now I will tell you what a real challenge is. Deep sea ships today have thrusters and tugs to assist them. Ferry’s have directional control of their trust on all four corners and instant wheelhouse throttle control.
Stepping back into my youth, my first ship as a ME was on a coaster passenger/freighter. The main engine was triple expansion steam engine. The bridge to engine-room communication system was a bass voice pipe. The telegraph for engine speed and direction was chain driven with slack in it so that ringing half a stern on the bridge end might not look exactly as half astern on the engine room telegraph end. In order to reverse the engine from ahead to astern the ME would close the steam throttle valve, start a small auxiliary steam engine to power the link to the slide valve that reversed the timed entry of steam to the engine. Then you re-open the steam throttle which would drive the engine in reverse, at the speed requested. In the mean time the firemen where running their ass off with changing demands on steam and steam pressure. We were about 3,500 tons DW with 2700hp. No tugs or thrusters, no auto controlled pitch on the propellers –nothing. Oh yes I forgot to say there was a “bow rudder” that had seized many years ago and was fixed to remain amidships.
Now feature making a landing at the end of the Portland Canal –Hyder Alaska/Stewart Canada. The Bear River flows out strongly affecting the ship’s port-landing and drives you onto the dock at a frightening pace. But hey a flood-tide may balance this off. But them a howling wind may blow down from the Salmon Glacier balancing the flood tide affect-or not. I was at times at the engine room controls for over an hour and more than 200 telegraph changes to speed and engine direction before we were securely docked . Many times this was a case of a nervous Captain who would come into the docking position to slowly and lose the ships steerageway. This was at times combined with not stopping to read the forces of wind and water ahead of time. You would at times come out of the engine-room madder than hell in a ball of sweat- mumbling about /*+-# timid greenhorn skippers. But then we would go ashore to Hyder AK and get Hyderised (a shot of white lightning and orange juice)-if you don’t know what that is your too young for this story.
When I look back now, close to fifty years ago and think about what these coastal merchant ship’s personal dealt with I’m amazed we ever got there and back without some real disasters.
So when hear stories of docking problems I laugh and remember everyone standing on the dock waiting for us, only to end up falling on their ass from a hard landing. And now you now why docking is an art form and I’m laughing if you think it’s hard in a C-Dory.

Geoff
On Blueback
 
A sailing buddy dropped me a note, asking about "feats of daring-do" with our new boat. I had to tell him that we are staying in a nice marina, doing day trips while we get more comfortable with this boat. And the rest of the note...

"Most of our "daring do" has to do with docking this boat. Frankly, we were darn good with the sailboats, but this powerstuff is a whole 'nother world. Seems that when you pull off the power, it doesn't matter how much you turn the wheel or cuss - the boat doesn't turn. May have something to do with the lack of a keel and rudder?

Fortunately, our dock neighbors have been very friendly. Each time we head out or come in, I hear people yelling, "Here he comes again!". And they scramble to the back of their boats with fenders and boat poles in hand. I think it's some sort of a local greeting ceremony. ;-)

I think we're going to enjoy this type of cruising for a while. I am still a sailing-boy at heart (and in practice, with our SunCat back home)... even got a twinge as we motored by some sailboats yesterday... in the rain... with the temps in the 60s... those folks were in foulies, but still looked a bit chilled. Our windshield wipers got a workout, but we were dry and comfortable. The Blonde made us lunch while we were motoring along, and commented about the great view all around. Molly the catboat cat slept comfortably in the v-berth most of the time we were out.

There was one butt-puckering moment when we came in to the slip: I shifted from forward to neutral, planning a well-timed burst of reverse. Everything was going perfect... and then, 10 seconds from tying off, the motor stalled (no way to just rev it when its not in gear). The C-Dory is very stout and the front of the slip has a rubber rubrail. Only my pride was crushed (you should have seen the perfect landing I made when we came into the fuel dock earlier in the day - with no one watching, of course). I got the motor started and we tied off. While washing down the boat, one of the dock neighbors came by to say, "Yeah, that happens to all of us now and then. Why I remember..." I was fine while he recounted his docking tales - I just had to wince as he went through the play-by-play of my arrival.

The new boat is great; we are having a wonderful time."

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Hi Jim,

We won't have to bother with docks at Catalina! I am looking forward to meeting you and seeing your new boat. You will be going past us in the Bay Area as you head down I5. We will be leaving Sat. 19th. Maybe we will wee you on the road.

Steve
 
seabran":q7y5qx6k said:
Hi Jim,

We won't have to bother with docks at Catalina! I am looking forward to meeting you and seeing your new boat. You will be going past us in the Bay Area as you head down I5. We will be leaving Sat. 19th. Maybe we will wee you on the road.

Steve
Click to expand...

Hi Steve,
Looking forward to it! Except the "wee" part... not sure what that means with you Bay Area folks. :wink: OK, that was a "just-funnin'" wink, not a "hey big boy" wink... oh, nevermind. Hope to see you at Catalina (it's gonna be hard to leave the beautiful PNW).

Best wishes,
Jim B.

PS - The docking wasn't much better today... Joan has the strength of an Amazon woman when she is in full panic mode... pushed me off the piling that we share the slip with and darn near into the next slip! :disgust Another 10-12 years, and I may start to get the hang of this.
 
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