DIESEL OUTBOARD???

B

Byrdman

New member
Hey Gang! Shoot me if this old dead horse has been around the horn before and I simply missed it...but saw a thread running on another owners group and thought may have some interest ....or ..some C-Brat in the loop on this????

Cut-n-Paste from other site:

Here's a letter from the MEG president, so now you know about as much as I do with this. It sure does intrigue me though. I'll keep following the development best as I can.

Regards,
XXXXX

Thank you for your interest in Maritime Engineering Group's new Vision Turbo Diesel Outboard. Currently we are gearing up for production which will begin in fall 2009. The outboards that we will be producing will be in the range of 115hp-230hp and will meet all emission standards. When we get closer to our production date pricing will be available. The weight of our engines will be similar to the Yamaha 350 and for durability our engine will also have closed cooling.

Again thank you for your interest, please visit us at www.megoutboard. com for future updates and specs. We will be updating our website within the next month with more info about the engine and our OEM partners.

Best Regards
Don Gardner
President
Maritime Engineering Group Inc.
 
Interesting specs. 6 gph at wot. Wonder how it does at cruise rpms? This has got to be a real economical power plant.

Thanks for the link
 
I will be interested in seeing how this unit works out. Awfully heavy, but with the right boat, it could be a great motor.... if it works. Seems like there have been a couple of failures along these lines.
 
Interesting- but I'm not sure outboard owners are willing to give up the performance. WOT speed under 40 on a 22 footer that would normally run near 50, and the weight of a Yamaha 350 (which has not been a good seller because of the weight).
 
Patrick-

We did discuss this a time or two before. The diesels seem attractive at first glance, but the motors, at least so far, are very heavy, expensive, and underpowered compared to conventional gas outboards. I seem to remember them being in the 250 lb. or more range, and limited to 35-50 hp. If I also remember right, the military does use some multi-fuel outboards that will also run on diesel, but they have the same limitations mentioned above.

The specifications for this new one may offer a lot more horsepower, but at 723 lbs, no C-Dory would be able to make use of one, unless someone starts a campaign to bring back the infamous CD-29 project. (!)

Nice reading about your travels!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
My twin F80 Yamahas weigh in about 750 lbs, so why wouldn't the 723 lb 175 or even 225HP model work on the CD25? Interesting. But price $$$ could be a limiting factor as mentioned.
 
“Not ready for prime time" is the first thing that comes to mind when reading this. More weight than a 300 hp but with the performance of a 200?? Why would you want it? I do think that the gas mileage is looking good but not enough of an advantage to justify the weight and lack of performance. I do think that it is a step in the right direction and will lead to a marketable motor in the future, but I would doubt that this is going to be a financial success.
 
When I saw the post on "The other forum" I looked at this engine, and had some thoughts. Who is making the block? I don't see any of the stardard marine engines in this size/hp block. Has this engine passed EPA (esp Calif.) emissions standards? This was the hang up for the Yahama Diesel outboards which were available at 27 and 36 hp in the past.

Then you look at the specs of this engine, and compare it. Generally diesels are about 30% more effecient than a gas engine. They claim 50% more effecient. OK--maybe, but simple physicics are that a diesel engine gets 20 hp per gallon of fuel per hour. 6 gallons per hour equates to 120 hp. I found two identical hulls which had their diesel and a 225 gas engine. The gas outboard at the top end was over 10 miles per hour faster, and the cruise was also significantly faster.

Granted that a diesel outboard is sort of the golden fleece, but so far no one has obtained one which has been practical. We will have to see if this one does the job.
 
Same thing for airplanes, the diesel has been a holy grail with teething problems... Diamond aircraft is now certifying it's second diesel, the Austro AE300, 175 hp ... The original Thielert diesel proved a disappointment once out in the field..
The Austro was flown to Oshkosh from Australia on a DA40 twin engine airframe, burning 5.6 gph per engine, at 65% power and 155 ktas at FL140. This engine may be a winner... We shall see when it gets into the ham fisted care of dolts like me...
 
In the reprinted articles on the site it is mentioned that a local engine manufacturer is building the blocks. Everything is ebing kept very quiet until patents are secured.

The test engines are also using Merc lower units, but they plan to develope a new lower unit specific to their motor.
 
Ya, I always thought that the Yamaha offerings would be great for my type of use (I cruise the Honda 150 at 1850-2000 RPM), till I saw the price. A German has a few, 15-18K plus shipping !
 
I hope this is not a great issue, but I wonder if a small company has the technology and money to develop a hi-tech modern diesel that can meet the emission requirements we have right now in the US, and particularly in California.

Consider the problems OMC had with the Ficht engines and that it's heir, Bombardier, has with the e-tech motors, and one wonders about how easy it is to develop new engines that meet these criteria and also run correctly right out of the box.

Granted, diesel technology may not appear at first to some of us to be as high-tech as that of gas motors, but the loads are much higher, and if the emission standards are not significantly different, the design and development costs to get to a marketable and reliable product could amount to a very high initial investment for a small beginning company.

Not trying to be negative, just playing Devil's Advocate to present an alternate point of view.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Good Notes, comments and thoughts.
Going to poke about a bit... and I appreciate all the candid feedback and other issues.

It aint always about how fast, particuarly on some hull designs....that may be "semi-displacement" based, and heavier boats. Just think of all those I/O houseboats out there that need new power...and a swim platform..Grin.

Some interesting numbers when looking into it and seeing the actual cost of 1,000 hours of operation/maintenance cost....but,... like pointed out, no initial investment cost,

some controler issues unless you already have electronic,

and as usual...that ol EPA stuff....

But hey... we always need to keep our eyes open.

Who knows when that better mouse trap will pop out of a box.... and then again... with the power of the "big business'" that already have the halls of Washington covered with alligator shoes... and dinners, and hunting clubs, fishing trips, campain contributions and all... it will be very hard for a small guy to pull this off.... :unlove :cry

But, did not that Gates guy or what ever his name is start off in a garage?

Maybe too many folks are still boating...and not froze in yet for something like this post this time of year... :mrgreen:

Byrdman...back on land.... and, as usual... thinking out of the box a bit. :smiled :thup
 
Joe,

You know something I don't (for sure!!!), but to my knowledge and personal experience Bombardier had virtually no trouble with the eTec... I no longer have mine, but there are many of them in the local area and they are virtually trouble free. I would buy another in a NY second if I needed another outboard. Right now my Yamaha 90 (fuel injected, yep) does a fine job. I am aware of one eTec problem in AK, but there are many thousands of them out there... and few reports of troubles. Not nearly as many as some other brands.

Still kicking!

Dusty
 
Dusty-

You're right about the overall e-tech performance, record, of course, and I didn't mean to implicate the whole line of motors or products, either! Just thinking of all the problem they had sorting out Tom's cold weather operation problems and how much bigger that type of problem can become because it's so hard and expensive to test a new product throughout the range of situations it will be used. And trouble with introducing a new product can bring bad publicity that's very difficult to overcome, even though a product gets sorted out eventually.

Byrdman sure has a point about all the houseboats and other displacement boats that could use a good displacement speed replacement powerplant, bolt-on at that!

Best to just adopt a wait-and-see attitude, of course, but I guess I'm too prone to try to think ahead, sometimes too much along those "yes, but...." lines!

Take care, and see ya' at the SBS/CBGT in January!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
There have been big diesel outboards for a long time--since WWII, and maybe before. These are still occasionally advertised "for sale" in Boats and Harbors". These are called "Self Contained Diesel Proplusion units"

Basically they are a unit which is dropped on the back deck of a barge or boat. There is a diesel engine, and then a leg which drops over the stern from the deck level. All of the controls were on the unit, including steering. Some drive legs could be completely raised out of the water when not being used. As I recollect some of these were several hundred HP, but very heavy. They are not "clamp on the transom" type of motors, but neither are the large modern outboards. Consider half way between and I/O and an outboard. I believe that steering was by movement of the entire lower unit.

Here is a more modern twin screw one by "Thrustmaster". It was one of the few I could find an isolated photo of.


brownWaterBargeLarge.jpg


I had envisioned that these would be great for houseboats, or the other slow displacement type of loads--and not subject to the problems which the usual I/O has. I know that Perkins engines starting at 100 hp have been used with these type of units for a long time.
 
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