Dealing with Chop

L

louxwe

New member
Got out for the first trip of the year and go my first sheepshead.

I boat in the gulf coast and bays near Destin and was wondering if there are any tips/tricks to boating in chop. Any bit of chop (and we get a lot here) seem to beat the hell out me and I have to really slow down. Trailing seas not as much but heading into the wind/chop I had to slow down to 7-10 knots and still was pretty rough. Is that just the way it is with the c-dory. Just kinda bummed watching everyone else zip past and it really adds a lot of driving time to my trips. I am in a 2006 CD22, with Honda 75, at full throttle and another guy on board I'm topping out at 21-22 knots but it needs to be very flat to get that.

Also while I was getting beat up in the chop heading out, all of the sudden the engine just stopped... like completely. Turned the ignition... nothing, no cranking over, no chugging, nothing at all. Then mysteriously several minutes later, it just cranked back up. My only theory is that the safety kill switch was loose or maybe something in the ignition... ???


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You can often get a better ride by angling off of directly into the chop, but it won't help that much and will add to your trip time.

That is the nature of the C Dory. Also and don't blast me for touting another brand, but my Atlas Pomano 23 with a downeaster full keel hull handles 2' of chop at 15 mph ok. More than that and I stay home.

David
 
I see that you have trim tabs. Did you put them all of the way down? Or at least adjust to attempt to get the best ride?

The other item which really helps is putting a Permatrim (that is the best foil, cheaper ones don't do as good a job. With the Trim Tabs and the Permatrim, it will help to get the bow down.

Real two foot short chop can be a challenge for many boats, including Down East types. Which do have a sharper entry, with soft chines, are limited to top speeds lower than the C Dory with hard chines. There are always trades offs--for example the semi displacement boats do not handle the down wind/seas in heavy seas, where the C Dory excels.

We have had power boats up to 42 feet (with a deeper V). where the Gulf seas can be a challenge. My Caracal Cat will run with the smaller Regulators or Contenders (24 to 26* dead rise) in short chop.

Get the bow down--it will throw some spray. The original C Dory with a flatter bottom, was designed around a 70 hp 2 stroke Honda. Some are using up to 115 HP currently. Keeping as much weight out of the stern as possible is also good. But we always seem to run heavy boats...

Some will say put a lot of chain in the bow, and several East Coast dealers rigged all of their boats that way. The down side of this is that the bow is permanently depressed at the expense of down wind performance--and you don't want to have the broaching or bow steering effect which cane come with certain boats.

Get the Permatrim and go out and play with various trim angles. Yes, altering course will help.
 
Bob is right about getting the bow down. You will need to use the trim tabs. If you can't get it down with them fully deployed then you need to add the Permatrim. Getting the bow down will help "cut" your way through the chop. The C-Dory has a pretty flat bottom. That is on of the reasons we have such fuel efficient boats. I would be careful about adding weight into the bow, as that can and probably will cause some bow steering which can get really uncomfortable if you are dealing with following seas. Those guys that are blasting past you are running deep Vee hulls, and burning twice (or more) fuel than you are. Maybe you need to step out of the "fishing" mode and get into the "boating" mode for a bit on the way to the fishing grounds. Leave the dock earlier, enjoy the sunrise, and the calmer water, and then enjoy a flatter riding boat, an indoor cabin, and a quieter ride and a lower fuel bill at the end of the day.

AS to your engine quit issue, you may be onto something there as the sudden stop can be indicative of that kill switch having a loose connection.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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We have caught a lot of fish all over the World "Trolling" at 6 to 8 knots (I have seen boats which troll and catch fish at 20 knots in the S. Pacific...) The point is that you can catch fish on the way to the marked points you have for the Sheepshead.
 
Thanks I will work on keeping the nose down more, didn't really mess with the trim tabs, played with trimming the engine. Also, had a full tank of both fuel so more weight in the back than usual. I have tried trolling in the bay here but I never caught anything or seen anyone catch, but definitely a possibility in the gulf.

Hoping that the engine cut out was just the kill switch or something, not a fun feeling floating in the bay with no engine.
 
Check all of your connections, take apart, burnish with SS wire brush, put on a conducting grease or corrosion block, and tighten up all fittings.

Trolling in the bays is not real productive, As you get offshore you have a better chance, Might as well if you have to go at a slower speed. Never know what you might get.
 
Small boats are most comfortable in small seas.

Big boats are more comfortable in bigger seas, up to a point.

In other words, length is ride and the best ride usually costs the most.

Aye.
 
Iouxwe, being how this was your first time out in the boat, your engine problem could be that your leg bumped against the key, turning your engine off. It's normal to reach down and turn the key to re start and nothing happens because the engine is in gear, it must be in neutral to start. This happens all the time on my CD 19.

The trim tabs really do make a difference in chop. we normally run at 20 to 25 in 1 to 2 ft. of chop. The only time we drop down below 20 is when we get 3 ft. or bigger waves. We usually get bounced around a bit, but my 19 is lighter and shorter than the 22, so yours should run a bit smother than mine.
 
I keep a 5 gallon bucket of loose diver lead as adjustable ballast.
It usually rides in the place where many would keep the port a potty.
That and trim tabs help keep the bow down pretty well.

I replaced the normal weak bucket handle with heavy duty rope.
That allows me to easily move it around to wherever needed using one hand and locked arm/ elbow.

If its choppy, I try to stay inshore.
 
Knew before I ever rode in these boat that they were not going to handle the chop

Way too light

The question is are they worse than what I expected...

Not really

Didn't have much faith in the ride

But was looking for something more fair weather that sips the gas
 
Yes its just the nature of the beast . I boat in the same area Panama City ( well whats left of it after Michael )

Just have to slow down and trim down to beat it , or it beats you ...
docking in the wind can be a challenging as well

But what make a C Dory bad makes it great. Light weight .
Not a boat in its class more fuel efficient with the same room and
amenity as a C Dory. not to mention its classic beauty. Just have to enjoy the good and learn how to deal with the bad .
 
Every boat is a compromise in some way. The perfect boat for fishing little flatland lakes, isn't worth a dime in the Ocean, and the big deep vee will get you there, but rock you like crazy while you are fishing, just walking from one side of the boat to the other, let alone if there is a chop running. The open bow, low profile can take 12 people, but when it rains, they are all going to get wet, and if it's choppy they will get wet anyway. The pilot house cabin cruiser will keep them dry but maybe you won't "cruise" at 40 mph.

So, figure out what you are going to do on your boat, and where you are going to use it. Then get the boat that fits those things best and learn to deal with the other factors. The little flats boat that runs up on the trailer and scoots from one tourney to the next, hardly ever touching a dock isn't a problem to dock in a crosswind but it sure isn't going to take you and the family out for a weekend cruise.

Learning to operate your vessel, even in adverse conditions, is part of boating. Learning should be part of the enjoyment, because you develop skills, practices and habits that make your boating more fun and safer.


SerenityPC said:

"But what make(s) a C Dory bad makes it great. Light weight .
Not a boat in its class more fuel efficient with the same room and
amenity as a C Dory. not to mention its classic beauty. Just have to enjoy the good and learn how to deal with the bad."
Click to expand...

I totally agree. And over time I have learned how to dock in a cross wind or current, and learned to put up with the "cute boat" time lapses in filling gas or getting away from the dock. You will too. If it is a serious drawback that you are a few minutes later to the fishing grounds, leave the dock a few minutes earlier. If you still don't like your C-Dory, sell it, (there are plenty of folks who will like it), and find something you do like.

I apologize if this sounds harsh. It is only meant to spur you towards learning to use your efficient and seaworthy boat to its best capabilities.

Harvey
Sleepy:moon

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Thanks all for your words of encouragement. Took my son out today, it was beautiful and perfectly flat, we didn't catch anything but pin fish and hardheads, but it was a beautiful day out.

I still keep having engine die problems. Was cruising along at WOT and the whole thing just stopped. It started right up and ran right after that. This is now 3 times straight that it did it. Just completely dies, doesn't seem to chug or slowly die, just dies. I don't think it's the kill switch, seems to be operating fine. At first I thought it might be something electrical, since one time I tried to start it right after and it didn't crank over or do anything, but now thinking back on it I think it may have been in gear as mentioned above. All the other times, it just started back up and ran fine, as long as I didn't go WOT... now I am thinking it just is not getting enough fuel at WOT or something? It was a little hard starting this morning, but later after warmed up it started up quickly, no issues.

Just paid to have a 500 hour maintenance done, and even had them come back a second time to rebalance the carbs... now worried they will have to come back a third time... or maybe I should just take it somewhere else.

Thanks, Bill
 
I believe your problem is fuel related.

Look at the squeeze bulb and if it is collapsed, then there is some obstruction in the fuel line. Or it could be sucking air. There could be a plug in the vent system, (some critters nesting), or there could be old fuel hoses, a defective primer bulb, bad anti siphon valve, etc. There can be obstruction to the screens in the pickup tubes in the tank, or sucking air thru a crack or bad fitting in the pick up system.

Sort of stop and do diagnostic tests, very simple, to narrow down each one of the issues, but can take time.

Running WOT all of the time is not good for the engine. What RPM are you at? You should get 5500 to 6000 RPM at WOT. The boat should be going from 25 to 30 mph. I would cruise at no more than the low 5,000 RPM speeds.

Glad to hear that you had a great day, especially with your son.
 
louxwe,

After reading your posts, there may also be the possibility that your carbs are gummed up and need cleaning/rebuild. Not sure if you are running fuel with Ethanol in it but if you are and have been doing so for quite some time on this motor, this may be the cause of your problem. Years ago I ran only Ethanol fuel in my boat motor and the symptoms of what you are experiencing happened to me with the carbs gumming up. Ethanol is a powerful solvent but at the levels found in E10 gas it cleans sludge while dissolving polymers and that could stop your engine. Ethanol attracts and absorbs condensation and a motor may stop working due to water contamination or fuel separation. Ethanol shortens the shelf life of gas and old gas is likely to absorb water and cause problems. You may not even be using fuel with Ethanol but if so, maybe this is related to your problem.

We recently bought a new Yamaha 40 outboard for a smaller boat and I read from Yamaha that "if available, only use non-ethanol fuel in this motor but may use E10 fuel." Just my 2 cents here because I know many will disagree with me on this (they probably have newer fuel injected motors) and tell of their good experience using Ethanol laced fuel. My experience with Ethanol has not been good with a carburetor motor and my boat mechanic told me to "at all expense, do not use ethanol fuel in this motor!" That was with a Tohatsu motor in the past with a carburetor. Newer fuel injected motors may be fine but still not worth taking the chance to me. Gary.
 
Mine would do that and I put on a new fuel filter. Only at high throttle settings. No water in the bowl but the filter must have held some. May not be your problem but who knows.......Tom
 
David Pascoe says, "Running an engine at maximum power greatly reduces service
life (often by a factor of four)."

Therefore, routinely running at WOT makes sense only if you are trying to break
your engine. Additionally, it defies common sense.

Aye.
 
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