Cost of new C-Dory 22
- Thread starter jsimmons248
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T.R. Bauer
New member
I didn't argue with the man I saw in Seward last summer about the boat nearing $70,000, but I thought it was out of line. On one hand, I think of my boat which cost around $32,000 when new, and how they could have gone up that much. On the other hand, I bought a house in the mid-90s for $70,000 that is now worth around $150,000 with not much done to it. You could honestly buy an decently equipped chevy pickup for $10,000 around that time and they cost twice as much now too - that is if you are really lucky. I guess it is all relative......It would seem that the cost of living is outpacing most folks salary adjustments. 
Jake,Jake":2bd0u1xg said:
I can't answer for Marc but I can turn the question around a bit and ask what boats are selling now and why? The one manufacturer that I know of that's doing well in the recession is Ranger Tugs. They are:
1) making boats people want (I think C-Dory is also such an example).
2) Providing unparalleled support from initial contact, through sales and, most importantly, afterward (look at the company participation on the company sponsored TugNuts site). This is an area where Triton cannot seem to make progress. I'm not faulting them for it, they may simply not have the $'s or time at the present moment and may be a bit trapped by other circumstances. I'm just stating the reality that I seen on the ground from an owner/potential buyer perspective.
3) Doing excellent marketing. Again this is an area where Triton is presently unable to do well and again it's mostly likely a lack of resources to do it right.
IMHO, if 2 and 3 were properly funded, the C-Dory brand should do well in a market where a lot of big boat owners are trying to downsize. It must be frustrating to both dealers like Marc and to Triton to see the potential for the brand but to not see it fully realized.
Well put Roger . One more point . Tell me why I should buy a 2013 C Dory over say a 2009 C Dory . Other than warranty and service? Apparently thats not enough reason for most folks .
On Triton's behalf ,they do send me occaisional leads which I am fairly religious about responding to. About 50% say I am looking for used .
Hopefully Seattle is a good show for them, I will not make that one this year . I tried to get some new product into the show last year . It wasn't meant to be .
I would prefer to speak about other brands privately . This forum is about C Dorys.
Marc
On Triton's behalf ,they do send me occaisional leads which I am fairly religious about responding to. About 50% say I am looking for used .
Hopefully Seattle is a good show for them, I will not make that one this year . I tried to get some new product into the show last year . It wasn't meant to be .
I would prefer to speak about other brands privately . This forum is about C Dorys.
Marc
I could be wrong, but it would seem to me that what C-Dory needs right now is a well-funded dealer in PNW close to the manufacturer that will fill in the gaps in what Triton is missing and let Triton just build boats.
Such a dealer would have to have a pipeline to Triton before going out on a limb and making any promises on delivery, service, warranty, and other issues, but could go a long way towards filling in the Meet the Public, promotion, and selling issues.
Probably very hard to do with the economy and boating industry in their present state. :sad
Joe. :teeth :thup
Such a dealer would have to have a pipeline to Triton before going out on a limb and making any promises on delivery, service, warranty, and other issues, but could go a long way towards filling in the Meet the Public, promotion, and selling issues.
Probably very hard to do with the economy and boating industry in their present state. :sad
Joe. :teeth :thup
I'm not sure if their is much difference between an 2005 C-Dory and a 2013 C-Dory. Sooner or later the product needs improvements and a much expanded choice of factory options. I mean everyone out there is not Dr.Bob. or equipped to be a master rigger. The absence of C-Dory from boat shows and no measurable product improvements; why buy a new boat? Well like others have said so you get exactly what you want where you want it. Plus the boats I believe are built better these days. A new motor. I would still like to see efforts made in solar to have a boat that does not need external ac power, everything DC or inverted to AC. All LED light options for all lights,that would not be so hard for the factory to do. Better berth options like proven memory foam ,insulation so you do have water dripping on you off your new 70K purchase. But nothing much changes and the dealers can't do it all alone either. Used boats come with a lot of extras, outdated electronics, used motors hidden problems, funny wiring,holes that are no longer needed etc. but at half the price. But no warranty. You need a better skill set to buy the used boat in my opinion. You need a good dealer to understand how you want to use the boat to get the right options. If you don't intend to anchor out much why buy a windless?etc. Buy the used boat think about how much you are going to put into,chances are that you won't get any of that back when you sell it. New depricates but you can use it right away and unlimited time on this good earth is what you can't buy.
D.D.
D.D.
Matt Gurnsey
New member
I think part of the problem with C-Dory is the same issue that Arima had- the new boats are unchanged from the boats made 5 years ago. Other than color or minor differences in trim.
So one can buy a boat a few years old, and save tens of thousands. Or buy an older boat, repower and be in it much less than a new boat. With so much quality used inventory out there, and the price of the basic boat climbing up over the years, the used boats start to look pretty attractive. Which has helped C-Dory (and Arima) boats maintain a strong resale value.
Ranger has upgaded their models a bit, but also have created larger versions of their boats that buyers can move up to. But I'm not sure the C-Dory buyer is a "move-up" buyer. From the 22 to the 25 perhaps, but no bigger. The 29 was an attempt to move up, and into the market that Ranger Tug is doing so well in.
While we can debate the merits of the design, the boat was a change from the outboard powered C-Dory, but not a radical shift in philosphy. I think it's real purpose was to be more than just a trade-up boat, but an attempt to bring new buyers into the C-Dory family, and create a more profitable boat that would make the company more stable. To make that plan work would have required marketing to a new buyer than the traditional C-Dory buyer. I don't think the company at the time fully understood that.
Arima tried to get dealers to order boats in 2012 with some specials, but the dealers didn't bite, feeling there wasn't enough demand. Defiance beleives they can build 40 Arimas a year, but I don't see how when the old company didn't build half that last year.
Keep in mind that for all of the support of the owners, and the die hard loyalty of the C-Brats, the C-Dory is still a niche boat. It is often compared to camping in a VW bus, and all the postives of that experience, but many buyers are looking for more creature comforts, soft surfaces and more room. They want the comforts of a large Class A motorhome with triple slide outs, TV and Internet. They want the comforts of home, not an experience slightly up from tent camping.
I was asked at last year's boat show by a C-Brat if I would own a C-Dory. And my answer was that I probably wouldn't. The C-Brat then was explaining to me all of the virtues of the boat, which I know quite well and have been able to expound on with consumers, but for the type of cruising I want to do, it isn't the right fit. I need more creature comforts to enjoy my time on the water. It isn't a question of the quality of the build or the boat itself, it just doesn't fit what I want to do when I'm aboard.
I thought Fluid's move with the Venture series to offer a "deluxe" C-Dory was a good one, allowing buyers a choice of a more luxurious experience on the water, while still retaining all the economy aspects of the design. Again, it was an attempt to bring in another group of buyers to the showroom, and expand the business. And by maintaining both models, buyers had a choice of the bare bones Classic or the plusher Venture.
So C-Dory isn't going to be a mass produced product. Which means it will never enjoy the volume purchasing power for components. even when coupled with the other Triton brands. There is certainly a place in the market for the brand, and the boats, but as the markets change, and customer tastes change, some boat brands will either change to better fit the current trends, or risk stagnating and becoming a small segment of the market.
So one can buy a boat a few years old, and save tens of thousands. Or buy an older boat, repower and be in it much less than a new boat. With so much quality used inventory out there, and the price of the basic boat climbing up over the years, the used boats start to look pretty attractive. Which has helped C-Dory (and Arima) boats maintain a strong resale value.
Ranger has upgaded their models a bit, but also have created larger versions of their boats that buyers can move up to. But I'm not sure the C-Dory buyer is a "move-up" buyer. From the 22 to the 25 perhaps, but no bigger. The 29 was an attempt to move up, and into the market that Ranger Tug is doing so well in.
While we can debate the merits of the design, the boat was a change from the outboard powered C-Dory, but not a radical shift in philosphy. I think it's real purpose was to be more than just a trade-up boat, but an attempt to bring new buyers into the C-Dory family, and create a more profitable boat that would make the company more stable. To make that plan work would have required marketing to a new buyer than the traditional C-Dory buyer. I don't think the company at the time fully understood that.
Arima tried to get dealers to order boats in 2012 with some specials, but the dealers didn't bite, feeling there wasn't enough demand. Defiance beleives they can build 40 Arimas a year, but I don't see how when the old company didn't build half that last year.
Keep in mind that for all of the support of the owners, and the die hard loyalty of the C-Brats, the C-Dory is still a niche boat. It is often compared to camping in a VW bus, and all the postives of that experience, but many buyers are looking for more creature comforts, soft surfaces and more room. They want the comforts of a large Class A motorhome with triple slide outs, TV and Internet. They want the comforts of home, not an experience slightly up from tent camping.
I was asked at last year's boat show by a C-Brat if I would own a C-Dory. And my answer was that I probably wouldn't. The C-Brat then was explaining to me all of the virtues of the boat, which I know quite well and have been able to expound on with consumers, but for the type of cruising I want to do, it isn't the right fit. I need more creature comforts to enjoy my time on the water. It isn't a question of the quality of the build or the boat itself, it just doesn't fit what I want to do when I'm aboard.
I thought Fluid's move with the Venture series to offer a "deluxe" C-Dory was a good one, allowing buyers a choice of a more luxurious experience on the water, while still retaining all the economy aspects of the design. Again, it was an attempt to bring in another group of buyers to the showroom, and expand the business. And by maintaining both models, buyers had a choice of the bare bones Classic or the plusher Venture.
So C-Dory isn't going to be a mass produced product. Which means it will never enjoy the volume purchasing power for components. even when coupled with the other Triton brands. There is certainly a place in the market for the brand, and the boats, but as the markets change, and customer tastes change, some boat brands will either change to better fit the current trends, or risk stagnating and becoming a small segment of the market.
In my dreams I wanted a brand new C-Dory 22 as well. But it was just too cost prohibitive for a poor Realtor like myself (stop laughing).
After spending 4 months living on this forum 24/7, I realised a newer second hand model would save me $$$$ big time. As long as the construction was sound and the engine(s) were ok, and a depth sounder was installed, I knew I could use the boat immediately.
What engines, single or twins? I didn't care, let's see what the boat comes with. Fridge, heater, stove, didn't matter, I'll use what's there. Canopy? If one is included, that would be nice. No canopy, no worry, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Trailer, single or double axle? I do not plan to do long range towing, so lets see what it comes with.
I also realised that here on Vancouver Island, used C-Dory's are rare. Don't get too picky, get the boat and get going, life is too short.
So what did I get? Check out my album. A two year old model, and when the dust had settled I had saved $25,000.
Bottom line is, if it has to have this and it has to have that, then cough up and buy new. I made my choice and have never regretted it.
Martin.
After spending 4 months living on this forum 24/7, I realised a newer second hand model would save me $$$$ big time. As long as the construction was sound and the engine(s) were ok, and a depth sounder was installed, I knew I could use the boat immediately.
What engines, single or twins? I didn't care, let's see what the boat comes with. Fridge, heater, stove, didn't matter, I'll use what's there. Canopy? If one is included, that would be nice. No canopy, no worry, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Trailer, single or double axle? I do not plan to do long range towing, so lets see what it comes with.
I also realised that here on Vancouver Island, used C-Dory's are rare. Don't get too picky, get the boat and get going, life is too short.
So what did I get? Check out my album. A two year old model, and when the dust had settled I had saved $25,000.
Bottom line is, if it has to have this and it has to have that, then cough up and buy new. I made my choice and have never regretted it.
Martin.
colbysmith
Active member
I'll echo again what the last two said. Perhaps if C-dory was available from more dealers, (in the Midwest) and at a lower cost, I would have considered new. Colby
Marc, that's a good question and obviously one many people are asking. In addition to warranty and service, I'd add the following:Wefings":1hek0b6i said:
1) Known provenance and maintenance of every component. With a new boat you know where everything came from and what's been done with it/to it. With used, you're trusting the previous owner and his/her maintenance records.
2) No unexpected/unwanted holes added by anyone other than you, the factory and dealer.
3) The ability to get everything just the way you want it and nothing that you don't want. With used, you often make a little compromise here and there.
4) Newer technology for all the other stuff (engines, electronics, etc)
5) That "new boat smell" - but I can add that just by grinding on a piece of fiberglass
!For some, the above will matter a lot but for many these factors won't add much either.
However, I'm wondering if the "Why buy 2013 vs 200x?" is really the right question for most or if many buyers (especially at boat shows) are asking "Why buy a C-Dory over say a Bayliner or SeaRay or ....?" For those questions, I think there are many compelling answers. Also, just out of interest, with other boats (and I understand if you don't want to discuss other specific brands on a C-Dory site) is the answer to the "Why 2013 vs 200x question any easier?" E.g. "Why should I buy a 2013 Bayliner/SeaRay/Arima/Osprey/Rosborough etc. rather than a 2006?" Without being in the business, I don't really know what kinds of year-to-year model innovations are typical in other makes of boats.
Another thought about "Why buy a new..." is that... it doesn't necessarily have to "make sense." What I mean by that is that people buy new cars every day, even though everyone basically knows that if they simply want the most vehicle for their money, it most likely points to a used one.
A few other reasons come to mind (also mentioned in prior posts).
1) They just want new
2) They want dealer advice and support through the process
3) They have fears/concerns about buying used that they don't have about buying new.
4) They don't want to have to travel around and take the time to look at used boats and/or deal with the potential hassles of a used thing; they simply want to walk in and buy a new boat
A few other reasons come to mind (also mentioned in prior posts).
1) They just want new
2) They want dealer advice and support through the process
3) They have fears/concerns about buying used that they don't have about buying new.
4) They don't want to have to travel around and take the time to look at used boats and/or deal with the potential hassles of a used thing; they simply want to walk in and buy a new boat
One more point, people just assume that a used C-Dory, Arima, Bayliner, etc. is the better buy when there are no obvious major changes in design. What is not factored in is that a person can have a C-Dory (any model) custom built by Triton, to fit their needs; everything is new. Plus, the price isn't much higher than nearly new units on the used market.
Marc has some beautiful new units (2012) in stock that I'm sure he would make a great deal on. On the West Coast, Ryan at Sportcraft has a New 23 Venture (2012) and some new 2013 22 and 25 models being built. All these great dealers need is an inquiry from those of us looking to buy.
As for a next step boat, Triton builds Osprey,Orca, and Seasport boats that can double as fishing or cruising boats and the quality is superb.
Marc has some beautiful new units (2012) in stock that I'm sure he would make a great deal on. On the West Coast, Ryan at Sportcraft has a New 23 Venture (2012) and some new 2013 22 and 25 models being built. All these great dealers need is an inquiry from those of us looking to buy.
As for a next step boat, Triton builds Osprey,Orca, and Seasport boats that can double as fishing or cruising boats and the quality is superb.
Don and Brenda
New member
I would agree with Matt, we made the change because getting ready for retirement we wanted to cruise in a bit more comfort. However I did buy my Ranger Tug used, but I purchased through the factory and they give you a warranty and great support.
The factory support was a huge issue for us. and no-one does it better than Ranger.
The factory support was a huge issue for us. and no-one does it better than Ranger.
We bought our new (to us) Grand Banks through the GB dealer in Seattle. The boat we bought was 23 years old, and the dealer was totally honest in all the possible problems. But the boat had great documentation of all service and many of the components were newly replaced (radar, gps, canvas, etc.). Any time I had a question the broker found an answer, and a good one. After we bought the boat, the broker continued to contact us to make sure all was going well. A great experience, and one that made us feel good about our purchase.
Robert H. Wilkinson
New member
5) That "new boat smell" - but I can add that just by grinding on a piece of fiberglass !
.[/quote] :lol: :lol: :lol:
Roger - you could revelutionalize the used boat market with that idea! :lol:
Regards, Rob
!.[/quote] :lol: :lol: :lol:
Roger - you could revelutionalize the used boat market with that idea! :lol:
Regards, Rob
Just to show how we're all different: That's one of the plusses to me about buying an older boat - new boat smell is gone! I mean, I'm a total sucker for a clean, "new-like" boat, but I'm not fond of the smell of the "-ester" resins. So I look for something older but relatively-unused.
What I like is that there is something for everyone in the various C-Dory options: New boats for people who want them (for the good reasons highlighted in this thread); lightly used versions for folks like me, plus super-equipped, bare bones, and on "down" through the options to "projects" for people hankering for one of those.
I hope we continue to have all the options.
Sunbeam
What I like is that there is something for everyone in the various C-Dory options: New boats for people who want them (for the good reasons highlighted in this thread); lightly used versions for folks like me, plus super-equipped, bare bones, and on "down" through the options to "projects" for people hankering for one of those.
I hope we continue to have all the options.
Sunbeam