I am trying to come up with a good way to keep the rain, leaves, and snow out of my new (second hand) 22 footer. It seems like the concensus is to go for a camper back that can be used while cruising as well. I contacted a local canvas maker and was given an estimate of around $3500. Does this seem reasonable or should I search elsewhere? I am in the mid Chesapeake area. Thanks to all for your advice. Ben
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Cost for a camper back / Canvas
- Thread starter Ben
- Start date
mikeporterinmd
New member
If you just want to keep stuff out of the deck, you can get a cover made
that attaches to the pilothouse and around the cockpit. This will
probably cost $700-$1000 if made out of Sunbrella. Perhaps you
can get a C-Dory specific one from the company that often supplies
C-Dory canvas for less. The cover snaps on. We have one...I don't
usually use it.
Of course, a camper back will give you more covered deck space, but
you wouldn't use a camper back to keep snow off the boat. You
run the risk of collapsing it from the weight, and you wouldn't want
to wear out a $3500 camper canvas when cheaper options for the
winter will do.
As for $3,500: depends a lot on the quality. You can certainly
spend less and get less. Details such as the amount of eisenglass,
the weight of it, what thread is used to stitch the fabric, which
fabric, quality of snaps used, screens, weight of the stainless steel
tubing, quality of fittings, and quality of overall design all come into play.
For winter storage in MD, most of us cover with blue tarps. I haven't
covered our boat yet, so I don't know if I'll need to build a frame or
not to keep the snow from building up. I'm not worried about snow weight
on the pilothouse roof. Someone else should comment about
blue tarp right on the pilothouse roof. I've heard that can cause
problems with the gelcoat. I guess I'll probably make a small frame to avoid
lots of blue tarp sitting on gelcoated surfaces. You also want to make
the tarp tight enough so the wind does not cause it to rub on the
gelcoat and abrade it. I've gone to bungie cords for maintaining
tension (different boat).
There are pictures of C-Dorys in the albums just sitting outside
in the Alaskan winter, filling with snow. With no vinyl or wood in
the cockpit, maybe no cover is needed!
Mike
that attaches to the pilothouse and around the cockpit. This will
probably cost $700-$1000 if made out of Sunbrella. Perhaps you
can get a C-Dory specific one from the company that often supplies
C-Dory canvas for less. The cover snaps on. We have one...I don't
usually use it.
Of course, a camper back will give you more covered deck space, but
you wouldn't use a camper back to keep snow off the boat. You
run the risk of collapsing it from the weight, and you wouldn't want
to wear out a $3500 camper canvas when cheaper options for the
winter will do.
As for $3,500: depends a lot on the quality. You can certainly
spend less and get less. Details such as the amount of eisenglass,
the weight of it, what thread is used to stitch the fabric, which
fabric, quality of snaps used, screens, weight of the stainless steel
tubing, quality of fittings, and quality of overall design all come into play.
For winter storage in MD, most of us cover with blue tarps. I haven't
covered our boat yet, so I don't know if I'll need to build a frame or
not to keep the snow from building up. I'm not worried about snow weight
on the pilothouse roof. Someone else should comment about
blue tarp right on the pilothouse roof. I've heard that can cause
problems with the gelcoat. I guess I'll probably make a small frame to avoid
lots of blue tarp sitting on gelcoated surfaces. You also want to make
the tarp tight enough so the wind does not cause it to rub on the
gelcoat and abrade it. I've gone to bungie cords for maintaining
tension (different boat).
There are pictures of C-Dorys in the albums just sitting outside
in the Alaskan winter, filling with snow. With no vinyl or wood in
the cockpit, maybe no cover is needed!
Mike
The King Marine camper back, in Sunbrella and with SS frame, was listed as $1,695 in the price list I received from a dealer. I believe you can call King Marine in Seattle and order directly from them (206-283-9346). They can make you one without having the boat there, but you will have to install it. Hope that helps.
I had the slant back cockpit cover for the C Dory 22 and it works very well for storage. The entire new Bimini and Camper canvas for a 22 (we already had the frame) to the back of the cockpit was about $1800 2 years ago. I paid about 3K for a complete Camper Canvas for the TC 255--and that included the frame, top quality waterproof Sunbrella (coated on the inside) and SS hardware--complete with free standing Bimini. I think that $3500 is too much for a 22 camper back.
Ben,
The first shop you contact is always the highest it seems. Draw up up a sketch of what you want and shop it around your area. Let them know that you are shopping for the best price. You'll find some quality shops willing to deal, especially this time of year. $3500 is way too high for a 22' boat. We put upper and lower canvas on a Krogen for $3000.
The first shop you contact is always the highest it seems. Draw up up a sketch of what you want and shop it around your area. Let them know that you are shopping for the best price. You'll find some quality shops willing to deal, especially this time of year. $3500 is way too high for a 22' boat. We put upper and lower canvas on a Krogen for $3000.
If you want a fullwinter cover for way less than that call these guys. http://www.angolacanvascompany.com/boatlifts.html Nothing fancy but it does the job.
Chuckpacific
New member
Ben,
My two cents...
Biminis, covers and camper backs come in all sizes, shapes and costs. Number of windows, aluminum or steel poles, length of bimini over the cockpit, number of zippers...all of these vary the expense. I keep my boat in a slip and use a diagonal cover from the back of the cabin to the front of the splashwell to keep rain, snow and dirt out of the cockpit when I'm not using it. Cost $380. When cruising I have a aluminium pole bimini which extends far past the edge of the cockpit. Cost $580. I also have full wraparound see-thru screens (3 piece) for bad weather when I'm on the water. Cost $800. These were all custom designed to my specifications and installed by Carol's Canvas here in Portland. I know that camper and cover packages are offered by mail well under the prices I paid but every owner has a specialized need/use for their covers and I got exactly what I needed and wanted.
Chuck
My two cents...
Biminis, covers and camper backs come in all sizes, shapes and costs. Number of windows, aluminum or steel poles, length of bimini over the cockpit, number of zippers...all of these vary the expense. I keep my boat in a slip and use a diagonal cover from the back of the cabin to the front of the splashwell to keep rain, snow and dirt out of the cockpit when I'm not using it. Cost $380. When cruising I have a aluminium pole bimini which extends far past the edge of the cockpit. Cost $580. I also have full wraparound see-thru screens (3 piece) for bad weather when I'm on the water. Cost $800. These were all custom designed to my specifications and installed by Carol's Canvas here in Portland. I know that camper and cover packages are offered by mail well under the prices I paid but every owner has a specialized need/use for their covers and I got exactly what I needed and wanted.
Chuck
Alyssa Jean
New member
$3500 for a camper back for a 22 is way too much. Pat and I had custom camperbacks made by the Canvas Makers in oak Harbor for about $2500. As others have already stated, Dave at King Marine can make one and ship it to you for well under $2000 I would guess.
mikeporterinmd
New member
Saying "3,500 is too much to pay for a canvas back" is like saying "$34,000 is too
much to pay for a 2001 22' boat".
Some of the canvas's shown appear to be 100% canvas. This is much less
expensive than a combination eisenglass, sunbrella setup. How much
eisenglass? 20 gauge? 30 gauge? Sunbrella or something else? Is
the something else as good? Better? Screens? Zip in/out or roll up
eisenglass? What quality of screen? Are they fine enough to block
the local tiny bugs we get? When designing, think about storage if
you want to take down the camperback on nice days. You will want to
have it designed so you don't end up with pieces that are too big to
store on a CD-22. But, extra pieces implies extra zippers and stiching, which
adds to the cost.
Anyhow, get accurate quotes, lists of the materials and brands used, and
then make a decision. Find out the gauge and diameter of SS used, too.
Perhaps what type of SS.
If you do plan on getting a camper canvas, and covering the cockpit is
important to you when the boat is not in use, I would suggest getting
an extra cover to use when the boat is not in use. That way, you won't
wear out the camper back.
On our last boat, we had 10 year old canvas that looked nearly new. This is
because the mooring cover was Sunbrella and we re-waterproofed it with
the recommended spray (not cheap), and we only used the camper canvas
when we were on the boat and wanted it up. We kept the eisenglass clean with
a spray called '210', which also kept it soft and supple. Always roll up eisenglass
when not in use.
Also...another cost is whether the canvas is zipped on to the frame, or if
you have to disassemble the frame to get the canvas off. Being able to unzip the
canvas from the frame is a major plus when it comes time to winter store. You
can leave the SS frames up - they are heavy, hard to move around, and
annoying to store. Much nicer to remove the canvas and leave the SS in place.
Also, the SS has a tendancy to get stuck together after a while anyway.
Anyhow...there's more to this than just getting a quote. Canvas is expensive, but
well done and well cared for, it can last a long time.
There are also good zippers and cheaper zippers.
Also, and depending on where you are in MD, you may run across this: There are
lots of guys that will give you a low ball quote, but they simply don't deliver. Canvas
makers can be a strange group to work with. If you actually want the
canvas for the spring, make sure you ask around and only deal with someone that
is actually going to deliver.
One more thought: there is a lot of labor involved in making a camperback. The time
to make a canvas for a 30' boat with an 11' beam than for a 22' C-Dory is not hugely
different. Of course, the materials will be less. So, don't expect huge savings just
because the boat is smaller than many.
Mike
much to pay for a 2001 22' boat".
Some of the canvas's shown appear to be 100% canvas. This is much less
expensive than a combination eisenglass, sunbrella setup. How much
eisenglass? 20 gauge? 30 gauge? Sunbrella or something else? Is
the something else as good? Better? Screens? Zip in/out or roll up
eisenglass? What quality of screen? Are they fine enough to block
the local tiny bugs we get? When designing, think about storage if
you want to take down the camperback on nice days. You will want to
have it designed so you don't end up with pieces that are too big to
store on a CD-22. But, extra pieces implies extra zippers and stiching, which
adds to the cost.
Anyhow, get accurate quotes, lists of the materials and brands used, and
then make a decision. Find out the gauge and diameter of SS used, too.
Perhaps what type of SS.
If you do plan on getting a camper canvas, and covering the cockpit is
important to you when the boat is not in use, I would suggest getting
an extra cover to use when the boat is not in use. That way, you won't
wear out the camper back.
On our last boat, we had 10 year old canvas that looked nearly new. This is
because the mooring cover was Sunbrella and we re-waterproofed it with
the recommended spray (not cheap), and we only used the camper canvas
when we were on the boat and wanted it up. We kept the eisenglass clean with
a spray called '210', which also kept it soft and supple. Always roll up eisenglass
when not in use.
Also...another cost is whether the canvas is zipped on to the frame, or if
you have to disassemble the frame to get the canvas off. Being able to unzip the
canvas from the frame is a major plus when it comes time to winter store. You
can leave the SS frames up - they are heavy, hard to move around, and
annoying to store. Much nicer to remove the canvas and leave the SS in place.
Also, the SS has a tendancy to get stuck together after a while anyway.
Anyhow...there's more to this than just getting a quote. Canvas is expensive, but
well done and well cared for, it can last a long time.
There are also good zippers and cheaper zippers.
Also, and depending on where you are in MD, you may run across this: There are
lots of guys that will give you a low ball quote, but they simply don't deliver. Canvas
makers can be a strange group to work with. If you actually want the
canvas for the spring, make sure you ask around and only deal with someone that
is actually going to deliver.
One more thought: there is a lot of labor involved in making a camperback. The time
to make a canvas for a 30' boat with an 11' beam than for a 22' C-Dory is not hugely
different. Of course, the materials will be less. So, don't expect huge savings just
because the boat is smaller than many.
Mike
I agree it is too much !! Look at Fishtales photo's... I had canvas done like his...all the way back and over the motors....with screened sides, and oversize stainless supports....really a first class operation...and it was somthing like $2000. I really like the extra room, it just makes the boat feel larger, plus it gives you much more useable space, for very little extra money.
Joel
SEA3PO
Joel
SEA3PO
Steve Grover
New member
ok...so, here's another two cents worth. I bought a full morning cover and a cabin cover for my LITTLE 16'er from King Marine. Dave was great to work with, he new the boat and the canvas is perfect in all aspects, so far.
Total for both was 1600. But, that's a 16'er. Very good quality....as is the boat.
Total for both was 1600. But, that's a 16'er. Very good quality....as is the boat.
Let me add one item and that is when stowing clear vinly be sure and make sheaths for it to be stored in. We use terry cloth or old sheets. Also when rolling up clear vinly, put old sheet material on the inside as you roll it--you might consider putting snaps on the top of the sheet, and snap to the roll strap "inside" position--
When I got 4 quotes for the TC 255 they ranged from 2500 to 4500, for exactly the same spec material. I always say what I want very specifically from the guage of the SS tubings, to the type of snaps, the brand and size of zippers, the type of Sumbrella (there is plain, there is the coating on the inside and there is the plastic callandered on the inside--plus Glen Raven Mills makes a cheaper material which occasionally is substituded for Sunbrella. Avoid any of the imitations of Sunbrella. Some folks do prefer a vinly material for the top--we don't. We have had both Bimini's and covers last up to 10 years--with resewing and renew of the vinly. Stratoglass is one of the best of the vinlys. We never get less than 30 mil--and usually go with 40 mil clear vinly.
When I got 4 quotes for the TC 255 they ranged from 2500 to 4500, for exactly the same spec material. I always say what I want very specifically from the guage of the SS tubings, to the type of snaps, the brand and size of zippers, the type of Sumbrella (there is plain, there is the coating on the inside and there is the plastic callandered on the inside--plus Glen Raven Mills makes a cheaper material which occasionally is substituded for Sunbrella. Avoid any of the imitations of Sunbrella. Some folks do prefer a vinly material for the top--we don't. We have had both Bimini's and covers last up to 10 years--with resewing and renew of the vinly. Stratoglass is one of the best of the vinlys. We never get less than 30 mil--and usually go with 40 mil clear vinly.
Thanks to all for your helpful suggestions. After hearing about the maintenance and cost of a camper back, I think that a mooring cover will suit my needs and pocketbook better.
BTW, I just got off the boat after spending the night in Annapolis and exploring the Severn river this morning. It is great to stay toasty warm and dry while out exploring the bay at this time of year. Most of the other boaters looked so cold and forlorn in the cold wind and chop. I hope the rest of you are able to still get out and enjoy the water. Ben
BTW, I just got off the boat after spending the night in Annapolis and exploring the Severn river this morning. It is great to stay toasty warm and dry while out exploring the bay at this time of year. Most of the other boaters looked so cold and forlorn in the cold wind and chop. I hope the rest of you are able to still get out and enjoy the water. Ben
As one who has, in the past, tried to save money by putting tarps and other, loose-fitting winter covers on boats, I would advise great care.
Wind, dust, and a slightly loose fit may cause the tarp/cover to 'flutter' on your rails or gelcoat. Over the winter, this could easily damage the gelgoat and possibly wear right through it. I have not been able to avoid this when the tarp touches any critical areas.
John
Wind, dust, and a slightly loose fit may cause the tarp/cover to 'flutter' on your rails or gelcoat. Over the winter, this could easily damage the gelgoat and possibly wear right through it. I have not been able to avoid this when the tarp touches any critical areas.
John