Connect Old Raymarine Stuff to New NMEA 2000 Backbone?

P

Pat Anderson

New member
OK, I have Googled a bit, and my head is spinning. I would appreciate some advice from those of you who know what you are talking about, if not please be "read only" here!

Daydream is a 2005 CD25 Cruiser with 2005 Raymarine electronics, including GPS antenna, C80 MFD, depth sounder module, and autopilot, I think it is an S1000 but the boat is at the marina and I am home, but anyway it is an older Raymarine autopilot. The 2005 vintage VHF is also connected I believe. It all still works pretty well, and I am disinclined to replace any of it (except the VHF).I understand these are NMEA 0183 devices.

The rub is that I have just re-powered with a Suzuki 200 outboard connected to a Suzuki digital display, which is a NMEA 2000 device. It does not have GPS input, so a few of its basic functions are not displayed on the digital display.

What I would like to do is install as basic a NMEA 2000 backbone as possible and connect the Suzuki digital display to it and use some kind of NMEA 0183 to NMEA 2000 converter to feed GPS data to the Suzuki digital display, continuing to use all the NMEA 0183 devices from 2005. I would also, at some point, like to upgrade my VHF to one with AIS, which I assume would have to be NMEA 2000.

I THINK this should be possible without spending an arm and a leg, certainly much less than replacing all the stuff installed in 2005. I am hoping for some fairly specific suggestions as to what I should buy in order to accomplish this, brand names and other information. Or if I am completely off-base, just tell me.

TIA for your usual helpfulness!


 
I think I likely have the same electronics set up as you in my 2005 22' cruiser. It was all installed at EQ Marine when the boat was new. I am looking to upgrade the chartplotter, radar etc in the near future. I did upgrade the VHF and I added a second antenna for the original Raymarine VHF. In the process of splicing the wiring, I lost the GPS on the radio. I installed a Standard Horizon GX2200 which has built in GPS and AIS. There is no need to connect this radio to your system to get GPS. It is an excellent radio and is my primary radio. I wanted to keep to original VHF, but it was programmed to the DSC name of the original owner. To change this to a Canadian DSC number, I would have to ship it to the US, send them a bunch of money and they might be able to program the DSC or might not be able to as this radio is considered obsolete and they would not repair it anymore. I kept the old VHF as a backup and a second channel radio. I plan to keep my boat for the next 10 years or so and I expect to replace the electronics and radar for something more up to date, sooner rather than later. My though was to map out the entire system and send it to a Raymarine rep to find out what is still comparable and what is obsolete. Then make the decision on what I have to replace and if I will stay with Raymarine or change to another brand.
 
Unless I completely misunderstand your goal, it looks like you can get there for around three hundred bucks. You should already have the backbone with the digital display so all you might need to give it GPS is this gizmo.
 
Your old and obsolete electronics are pretty much junk. The new electronics are faster and more accurate and easier to use. Leave your old installed and add a new mfd. You could just do a nmea 2000 gps puck and that would give you speed and fuel usage. If down the road your looking at ais then the new display would be able to display it. That is unless you want to look at the ais targets on the two inch screen of the radio. Then there is the safety side of things how much is your life worth. At some point that old stuff is going to give it up and you’ll be left with nothing to come home on. You can buy a display for 500-600 dollars that will do everything you want. It just depends on how big.
 
Pat Anderson":3h3itpjt said:
... The rub is that I have just re-powered with a Suzuki 200 outboard connected to a Suzuki digital display, which is a NMEA 2000 device. It does not have GPS input, so a few of its basic functions are not displayed on the digital display.

What I would like to do is install as basic a NMEA 2000 backbone as possible and connect the Suzuki digital display to it and use some kind of NMEA 0183 to NMEA 2000 converter to feed GPS data to the Suzuki digital display, continuing to use all the NMEA 0183 devices from 2005. I would also, at some point, like to upgrade my VHF to one with AIS, which I assume would have to be NMEA 2000.
...
Click to expand...

I just added a NMEA 2000 GPS receiver and a backbone. You can get a GPS receiver that is the same size as a GPS antenna (e.g. Garmin GPS 19). At the time I did it, the NMEA 2000 GPS receiver was under $100 and the backbone starter kit was also under $100. Depending on what else you have on the backbone, you may need a few other parts (e.g. terminators). The price of adding a NMEA 2000 GPS was lots cheaper than using a NMEA converter.

My boat now has both NMEA 0183 and NMEA 2000 networks.
 
Pat, I have a Raymarine C-120 same vintage as yours. I have a mix of electronics and cable systems but they all talk to each other via a Multiplexor, (Shipmodul 1121 Miniplex-2usb Programmable Multiplexer) This was all set up and done by Rodgers Marine, in Portland

The Multiplexor has capability of talking all of these in and sharing back to each what ever it needs in it’s own “language”.

Seatalk-1
Seatalk-NG Spur Cable (NMEA-2000)
Seatalk-NG Backbone Cable (NMEA-2000)
NMEA-0183

I would consult with Martin Kirk at Rodgers Marine Electronics, 503-287-1101.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

1_Jan_From_Inside_the_Electronics.sized.jpg
 
Our Boat has 2004 Raymarine C80 with radar and autopilot and was also originally set up by EQ Marine. Our gps was originally supplied through a Raynav 300 GPS Plotter. The loss of the satellites over time that the raynav300 was usine made it obsolete. I replaced it with a Raymarine E32042 Raystar 125 GPS Sensor

https://www.amazon.com/Raymarine-E32042 ... B0007NITPS
and used this backbone to connect it.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/raymarin ... e%2520(LIA)-_-11013927,product_id:11013927,adpos:,creative:504966948635,device:c,matchtype:,network:g&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5PGFBhC2ARIsAIFIMNfz7HyirqRc-crsgKx253jAL8JOv96Kj7_MTmGzvn31JO9j1zm2LloaArAWEALw_wcB

This leaves 3 extra ports for seatalkng that is ray marines version of nmea 2000 and I believe you can connect other Nmea 2000 devices through this backbone, but not absolutely sure of that. You may have to get another converter for that, but I am pretty sure it can be done.

We have the standard horizon gx2200 and the AIS output is
NMEA 183 and I connected it to the C80 screen through the NMEA port. It was a challenge to find the connecting cable for this port, but I eventually found one on ebay.

NOTE 1: the 125 gps puck can be mounted inside the cabin, out of the weather and works excellent.

Note 2: After installing the gx2200 I found by trial and error that the gps in the gx 2200 (even when the outout was turned off) would interfere with the raystar 125 gps signal and make the autopilot do really weird things. As long as I boot up the raystar 125 gps before the gx2200 this does not happen and it works great.
 
Yacht Devices and Actisense both make converters of NMEA 0183 to NMEA 2000, if you want to go that way. Maretron has made a number of other very sophisticated instruments to use and combine NMEA protocols. You can cross reference ideas with Panbo's forum.
 
Note 2: After installing the gx2200 I found by trial and error that the gps in the gx 2200 (even when the outout was turned off) would interfere with the raystar 125 gps signal and make the autopilot do really weird things. As long as I boot up the raystar 125 gps before the gx2200 this does not happen and it works great.
Click to expand...

My GX2200 is not connected to my C80, but I too have had weird things happen with the autopilot. The most notable is that once in a while it likes to drive the boat in donuts or really change course in a drastic way. I never thought that it could be related to the VHF. Thankfully when we did the donuts the first time we were well off shore from Quadra Island with no boats near enough to hit, but there were a few fishing boats within eyesight. It was a maneuver something akin to what you might watch a jetski do.
 
Most auto pilots and especially ones which use wireless technology, are adversely affected by RF. Shielding, Ferrite Beads, proper twisted wiring, copper foil ground etc are all necessary. You have to go piece by piece to see what works and alleviates the RF interference.
 
We don't have an autopilot on our C-Dory, but we do on our sailboat and it would also do occasional major course changes. Finally figured out my wife was putting her purse (with cell phone and other metallic stuff) on the shelf right above the course sensor! Whenever she would move her purse, we would change course!!!!
 
The compass system on the autopilots is very sensitive. Mine is located just under the dash over the V-Berth. Anything with any kind of metal in it placed on the dash over it will knock the compass off by 30 degrees or more!
 
It sounds as if Pat wants to use part of the original equipment to display the Suzuki motor output, which is in NMEA 2000 on a (original) Seatalk unit because he doesn't want the change out the MFD and radar. He is willing to get a new VHF and GPS, both using NMEA 2000. Is that right?

First, lets talk about what VHF Pat can get. I instaled a Standard Horizon GX2400 VHF which has GPS, AIS and NMEA 2000, and I assume that other mfgs have similar. So that would solve both the AIS, VHF and NMEA 2000 desires. That radio is $400 which I thought was reasonable for giving me all 3 functions.

Next, let's see what changing the NMEA 183, NMEA 2000 and Seatalk buses means. 1. the Suzuki puts out NMEA 2000 only. 2. Pats Raytheon MFD only works with Seatalk. 3. Pat is adding NMEA devices that use NMEA 2000. 4. Changing the MFD means changing the radar.

So first off there are converters that will change NMEA 2000 to NMEA 183 and vice versa ($200). And converters that will change NMEA 183 to Seatalk ($100). And that solves the electrical connectivity. A NMEA bus is going to cost $150; at least that's what it cost me.

Finally,the question is does the Raymarine MFD have the processing capability to handle all this data and display it? Remember AIS was just coming on the scene in 2005. One would have to read the op manual to see if the unit could process AIS data. Next, would the unit be able to process the Suzuki data and develop a meaningful display? One could only find out by trying.

Now, Pat has spent $15000 on a new motor and he want's his original equipment to read and process a bunch of new data. He could certainly connect everything, but then hes spent another $400-$500 and he's not sure if it would work. My feeling is that's a good discount on a new MFD (and don't forget the radar) that's designed to do all Pat wants to do. From my experience with Raytheon radars and MFD's there's been a lot of progress since 2005, when I outfitted Journey On. I now have a solid state radar, which does all the processing at the radar and a MFD that's designed for AIS, radar overlay, NMEA 2000 and reading the new charts. I still use the old Honda 150, cause it runs well (and weighs less).

So in summary, Pat can try it, no guarantees that it works, or he can match the new Suzuki with new electronics.

Boris
 
Finally,the question is does the Raymarine MFD have the processing capability to handle all this data and display it? Remember AIS was just coming on the scene in 2005. One would have to read the op manual to see if the unit could process AIS data. Next, would the unit be able to process the Suzuki data and develop a meaningful display? One could only find out by trying.

I can say for sure that the Raymarine C80 can process the AIS, as it has worked quite well on our 2004 model. As for the Suzuki info, I can't say for sure.

Pat, I would recommend you join the Raymarine Forum and then ask the moderator your specific question. They are very good about answering questions regarding old equipment. It may take them a couple days to get back to you, but they will. I have done this in the past and they were very good at helping me figure things out. Here is one of their post that pertains to your situation. It shows all the part numbers that you might need to hook up your motor info. You might find more about it just by searching their forum.

https://forum.raymarine.com/showthread.php?tid=2332
 
Pat Anderson":3tmyin10 said:
The rub is that I have just re-powered with a Suzuki 200 outboard connected to a Suzuki digital display, which is a NMEA 2000 device. It does not have GPS input, so a few of its basic functions are not displayed on the digital display.

What I would like to do is install as basic a NMEA 2000 backbone as possible and connect the Suzuki digital display to it and use some kind of NMEA 0183 to NMEA 2000 converter to feed GPS data to the Suzuki digital display
Click to expand...

It sounds to me like he wants to be able to use the speed and MPG features of the Suzuki display and show them on the Suzuki display. If that is the case all he has to do is buy the GPS antenna I linked earlier that is sold by Suzuki for that purpose and plug it into what should already be there. There is no converter needed, and in my case no real smarts either, because it is truly plug and play. The kit even includes the Tee connector to plug it in. Then when it is powered up, the additional data features are there to use.

I opted for a speed wheel to get speed and MPG displayed on mine because knowing the water speed vs. GPS speed is handy for trolling but if I wanted speed over ground or any other GPS data on my Suzuki display I would get the puck and plug it in.

I don't know, maybe he does not have the string of Tee connectors for the Suzuki display like mine does - which I think is what you call the backbone?? - but it does have the cable and plugs to create the thing.

I could be totally out to sea here as is a pattern with me, but it is hard to tell without feedback to our feedback. If Pat doesn't come on here soon and set us all straight I am going to start making jokes on his read only thread.
 
Tyboo
That’s right any nmea2000 gps antenna will give him gps speed, mpg, range. The backbone that is installed with the Suzuki motor is a rebranded Lowrance. It is compatible with Lowrance, Garmin, B&G, Simrad, Navico networks. Ray marine might require a converter. But any of the brands above would just plug in. Basspro has a Echomap UHD 73sv on sale right now for 350 off. $449.97 it would have the gps antenna built in and I think that one is loaded with Navionic maps and might future proof him a little bit. He can just leave the old gear the way it is. The Suzuki gauge is a little bit limiting you would just have to build a few screens to see everything and would have to switch between screens to see everything. With a small mfd you would be able to see everything on one screen.
 
jkidd":326pczgb said:
Tyboo
That’s right any nmea2000 gps antenna will give him gps speed, mpg, range. ...
Click to expand...

To be clear, he probably wants a GPS receiver (sometimes called a puck) not just an antenna. A GPS antenna and a puck look pretty much the same, but the functionality is different.

The antenna does not provide any processing of the GPS signals, just receives them and requires an external (to the antenna) receiver. A puck has the receiver built in and will output the GPS information.

The cables from the two devices are different too.
 
ssobol":wpidf8hy said:
jkidd":wpidf8hy said:
Tyboo
That’s right any nmea2000 gps antenna will give him gps speed, mpg, range. ...
Click to expand...

To be clear, he probably wants a GPS receiver (sometimes called a puck) not just an antenna. A GPS antenna and a puck look pretty much the same, but the functionality is different.

The antenna does not provide any processing of the GPS signals, just receives them and requires an external (to the antenna) receiver. A puck has the receiver built in and will output the GPS information.

The cables from the two devices are different too.
Click to expand...

Ok, if it is a nmea 2000 device then it would have to be able receive the position data and make it available to other devices in the network, sorry for being unclear.
 
I am pretty sure the C-80 or C-120 (Classic as they call them now) will be able to do the functions with AIS, radar and GPS. The issue I ran into was that the C-120 only had spots for input from 3 devices, so that is why I had to go to the Multiplexer. All the devices go to that, then it sends all the pertinent info to the C-120 on one of the available inputs.

Wonder if Pat got all (wire)tied up in his project? Or maybe on the way to Portland.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

1_10_2012_from_Canon_961.thumb.jpg
 
Thanks for all the replies!

I have spent quite a few hours on the boat down at the marina staring at the rat's nest behind the helm. Sportcraft did me one big favor, they moved the autopilot pump down to the very bottom so it no longer obscures what is behind where it was previously mounted.

You are all hitting right around what I want to do. The goal is to get GPS input into the Suzuki SMG4 display so the functions relating to speed and position such as MPG will work. Sportcraft neatly tied up everything coming from the SMG4 in one bundle and everything coming from the engine in another bundle. I cannot see where they connect with cutting the zip ties on each bundle, but I see NOTHING that looks like an N2K backbone or a cable to plug into an N2K backbone.

So one route would be to figure out how to connect a new N2K GPS directly to the SMG4 and not worry about anything else being connected to the N2K side of things.

The other route would be an N2K backbone with a multiplexer for all the NMES 0183 stuff, so for example the RS125 GPS receiver would provide the GPS information to the C-80, the S1000 autopilot, and whatever else, as well as the SMG4. New N2K stuff could just be plugged into the backbone as it replaces the old stuff.

I am looking for the simplest and most economical solution, which I THINK is the first route above, but the rub is that I need to find out where and how the N2K antenna (or puck?) would connect to the SMG4. If I could find that it already had an N2K backbone or even connector to one, I would be most of the way there. Without finding where and the SMG4 N2K connector is or how it connects, I am stymied. Sounds like Tyboo knows the answer to this, since he has the exact same engine and display that I now have,

 
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