Comparing VHF/GPS Radios (w/ current rebates)

[JMacLeod]

Need some help deciding on fixed and handheld VHF radios.
I was originally keeping everything in the Garmin family, but on sage advice I'm going with a radio company for the radio.
Some of the Icom and Standard Horizon models have current rebates, so that might be a nice timing bonus.

FIXED AIS/GPS VHF:
------------------
Icom M506, AIS/GPS, NMEA 2000, 2 minute last call recording
$600 - West Marine
$454 - Ultimate Passage

Standard Horizon GX2200, AIS/GPS, NMEA 0183
$400 - $40 rebate = $350 - West Marine
$320 - $40 rebate = $280 - Ultimate Passage

The main difference seems to be the NMEA 2000 connectivity and the 2 minute last call recording feature.
Is this worth the $174-250 premium, and why?

FIXED GPS only VHF:
--------------
Icom M424G, GPS
$300 - $30 rebate = $270 - West Marine
$240 - $30 rebate = $214 - Ultimate Passage

Standard Horizon GX1700, GPS
$250 - $30 rebate = $220 - West Marine
$203 - $30 rebate = $173 - Ultimate Passage

Is AIS a useful enough function for FL/Bahamas cruising that I should consider it or not?
If so, is it worth the extra boat unit for a dedicated Tx/Rx?
We don't plan to cruise at night or in fog, but man makes plans and God laughs.

HANDHELD VHF:
-------------
Icom M93D, GPS/DSC
$300 - $30 rebate = $270 - West Marine
$240 - $30 rebate = $210 - Ultimate Passage

Standard Horizon HX870, GPS/DSC
$200 - $40 rebate = $160 - West Marine
$205 - $40 rebate = $165 - Ultimate Passage

The plan is to have one fixed in cabin and one handheld in ditch bag.
Does this sound about right for off-shore Florida cruising?

Is there anything else I should be considering in a VHF?

 

[ssobol]

I have the Standard Horizon GX1600 it is the same as the 1700 but without the GPS. If you another GPS source you can easily connect it to the GX1600.

I believe that these radios only speak NMEA 0183. So your GPS source has to be the same if you have the 1600.

I also have a Standard Horizon handheld that I got from somebody on CL (it was barely used). It was $60. I don't recall the model. It is in the ditch bag, but the only thing I've ever used it for it to see if it still works. BTW, with the handheld radio off, the battery will hold a charge for at least a year. I put it on the charger once a year, but it always seems to be fully charged.

 

[hardee]

You are asking if AIS is worth the extra boat unit, or was it the M-506?

The ICOM M-506 with AIS (NOTE: Receive) also has the Last call 2 minute recording. It is the only VHF with that long record feature. For me it is worth it for that alone, but then, I use that radio for VHF Chn 16 (almost) exclusively. There are times when I will follow a USCG call on that radio for the recording feature alone.

The function menu on the M-506 is so easy to use, and quick both to use and to learn that it is my favorite VHF. (I should note here that I have 3 fixed mount vhf's on board, the M-506, the Standard Horizon 2150 - same as the 2200, and the Raymarine 218, all mounted side by side and each one has a favorite function, but if I replaced either of the later, it would be with the M-506. All have hailer/auto foghorn function. The SH and ICOM both have AIS Receive.)

Now to the usefulness of the AIS. In a 2 button push, I can pick an AIS equipped vessel, and find if it will be crossing ahead, dead on, or behind me, and see exactly how soon (TCPA) and where (CPA) = Time to closest point of approach and closest point of approach. Handy, not only at night or in fog, but where you have other vessel traffic, crossing situations or not. (In my situation - crossing the Strait of Juan de Fuca - I have large ocean going ships running between 4-5 knots up to 22 knots for the big ships or 35 knots for the walk-on passenger ferries. I can spot them, determine my crossing plan, have a 1 or 2 button direct call to their wheel house if there is any question as to continued travel direction, and know I have plenty of safety margin. It is called peace of mind.

Yes, not every boat on the water will have AIS, but the large commercial ones, and the big, fast yachts will have it. I don't know if you have radar or not, but yes you can do some of that with radar using MARPA, but it will take you multiple buttons and up to 2 minutes. AND, radar can not see around islands or to the other side of a big ship or other visual obstruction. AIS can, is fast and easy. The AIS receive VHF does not need a separate antenna.

To have that function you MUST have 2 things, GPS input to the VHF, and DSC activated on your VHF, which will require a MMSI number. Easy and an important step for safety.

As to the handheld VHF, You are on the right track. Look for floating capability, recharege and replaceable battery, multiple transmit power levels - usually 1, 3 and 5 or 6 watt, and DSC capability, (that one will probably have an internal GPS too.) I use 2, on in the ditch bag, and one on my PFD. If I have someone with me, they get the ditch bag radio for their PFD. I have had the Standard Horizon HX 851 since they first came out. Good service and good radios. I would go with those.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[gstraub]

I have the GX2200 and bought it because of the built in GPS and AIS receive functions. I have been happy with it so far, but really have not used all the functions much. The GPS Store has it for $314.95, with the $40 mail in rebate, and free shipping.

Gerhard

 

[Peter & Judy]

I have recently upgraded the original Raymarine VHF radio on my boat to a Standard Horizon GX2200. The Raymarine was still in very good condition, but was programmed with a US MMSI number. I wanted to change to may new Canadian MMSI number, which would require me to ship the radio to Raymarine in the US. I contacted Raymarine and they no longer supported repairs on this radio, but said they might be able to upgrade the MMSI number, but they needed me to send the radio to them in the US to know for sure. I debated this option and considered the cost. I then decided to invest the money in a new VHF. I chose the GX2200 because of many features, I like the built in GPS, the AIS might come in handy someday, I installed a loud hailer and fog horn. Mostly I did so because of the DSC features and the safety aspects incorporated in this radio. I also own a pair of Standard Horizon HX870 VHF radios which we bought for use when we sea kayak. These too have DSC, built in GPS and have their own MMSI numbers programmed into them. I have not used the GX2200 much beyond testing yet.

I did leave the old Raymarine VHF installed in the boat, I have yet to attach an antenna to it. I plan to use the GX2200 as my main emergency radio on Channel 16. The Raymarine will be my backup radio and allow me to monitor other channels as needed.

 

[Pedromo]

I have the Icom. Very happy with it, functionally as well as ergonomically.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I have the GX2200 and the HX870 handheld, both of which seem to have more features than I need. Because they have many more features than buttons, it takes a while for "simple" choices to become routine. Often by the next time I want to use a feature I've forgotten how to do it. Probably more a commentary on me than on the radios.

One thing I learned on our recent trip about the HX870 that I didn't like was the volume control. We could drop a person on shore with the HH and then communicate (i.e., "come get me"). I know, there's a protocol for VHF transmissions while ashore, but the ship-to-ship channel is generally open in Kyuquot because the only ship that visits comes in on Thursdays once a week. Anyway, I learned that the volume on the handheld can be turned so low as to be turned off. Maybe there is a good reason for this, but an audio safety device that can be turned on for transmission but the reception not heard could be a problem.

We comparison tested the reception of the two radios. Because of the taller antenna on the GX2200, it got better reception (and presumably, transmission). Sometimes we could hear both sides of the conversation on the GX2200 and only one side on the handheld. But if I stood on the gunnel so that the HH antenna was closer in height to the deck-mounted antenna, the difference disappeared. Strange to think that there could be a one or two mile difference between using the HH while sitting at the helm and standing next to the helm. Same would be true of using the HH ashore. Climb a tree or something if you need the signal to carry.

Mark

 

[hardee]

Mark, Part of the reason for the Tx and Rx difference is in the antenna length, not just the height. So when comparing, even if both the 2200 and the HH are set at 1 watt, the fixed mount with the longer, stronger antenna will win out.

As to the volume control. One of the features on the HH is the "button lock. That keeps everything set the way I want it, and is especially useful when I have the HH clipped to my PFD. I set the channel I want to use, the volume to loud enough to cover ambient sound, and the squelch to just at the break point and then lock the buttons. Hope that helps.

On my Standard Horizon, my 2150 is the same radio as the 2200 but does not have an internal GPS. The LCD screen smaller than the ICOM, and the menu is more complicated to work your way around in, except for the DSC call to a listed MMSI from the AIS screen. It is a 2 button push from the AIS screen. I rarely use that feature but when I do need to call another vessel that way, I do use the SH2150. (I have AIS out put from both the ICOM and SH vhf's to my chartplotter, so most of my AIS monitoring is cone on the plotter.

Peter and Judy, Good choice to leave the first radio in the boat. I would add the second antenna, but that is my choice, you may or may not. It not, you can use a VHF splitter, and put both radios onto one antenna. That will work as you are only going to be transmitting off one radio at a time BUT adding a separate mount and antenna will increase longevity and functionality of both radios. Until you have more than one radio on at a time you will never know how much you are missing even with using a scan feature. (That is one of the main reasons I have the ICOM M-506 for monitoring 16 exclusively.)

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[hardee]

JMacLeod, something else to keep in mind in your shopping. West Marine now has a price matching policy. Find what you can and then take it to them. They (at least here in my local story 40 miles away) are pretty good to work with.)

There is something else, you may want to consider. Of the VHF's that you mentioned, they are capable of an Auto Fog/Hailer function. It is relatively simple to add a good speaker to give you those functions. In my area, the auto fog horn is invaluable. BUT, I use the hailer function more.... Whoa there don't get ahead of me... doesn't mean I am talking on it at all. It also has a "listen back" feature when in hailer mode, working as a big microphone, so when entering a marina, or crowded anchorage, I turn that on, and can listen to the ambient noise, like if someone is yelling at me that I am screwing up, and "don't go there" etc. I have even, on occasion, heard the "Cute little boat" comments that way. 8) That was worth the $40 for the speaker:lol:

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[thataway]

There are a few places where you may miss some important transmission, with one radio, even on scan or triplex function. For that reason I have two fixed mount VHF radios--one always on Ch. 16, the other on working channel--tug and tow along the ICW, but it might be a scan with tug and tow, vessel separation scheme, traffic control in a harbor or other C Brats.

I have the Standard Horizon 2200, and a slightly older Standard Horizon. I also have several hand held--the primary being the Standard Horizon HX 870. I have a west Marine simple VHF with both rechargeable as well as a AA battery tray in the ditch bag. I carry a dozen AA, ( strobe, flashlight, and hand held GPS all use AA batteries) The HX 870 uses AAA. I have two hand held, with base charger at the helm. One for each of us to go on our life jacket along with PLB. if we are offshore in rough weather.

I do hook up the hailer--the fog functions alone are worth it.

If you are contemplating the transceiver (Garmin 600) then get the MMSI from the FCC--since you cannot use the Sea Tow/Boat US number in a transmitter, or out of the territorial US waters (although many do use them in Canada)...

I added one other feature--mostly because I had a RAM mike I had bought several years ago--and put the remote mike where it can be easily accessed from my bunk, (the entire port bulkhead is cut out, like in the Tom Cat), or by the person riding in the passenger's seat. I figured that was an additional safety function--or i can get the weather report./ safety function at any time of the night, without leaving the bunk.....(Lazy in my old age)

Finally antennas--buy the best you can. I went with the Morad VHF on the 25. It out performs the Shakesphere Galaxy. It is a relatively shot antenna with a 6 Db gain, and a whip.(which I prefer over the fiberglass tube, with a wire antenna inside. As I noted, in a PM, I like VHF antennas which have a sold body (metal extension or like the Morad, and the whip on top--these cannot be broken by someone grabbing them! You will find Morad on Law enforcement, commercial and military vessels; they are rugged and dependable. Our 4' antenna is mounted on the top of the Radar arch, so it is up higher than an 8' antenna mounted on the deck would be. (you would get a mile or two more range with an 8 foot on the Radar arch.) Antennas can make a significant difference in distance of both reception, and transmissions. Also the "clamp on" PL 259 fittings (antenna feed to the radio) often are a source of decreased function. Better is soldered (only if you do it properly--I did a tutorial about 10 years ago on that). also the MINI vhf connector which will pass thru the tubes and any fittings the co-ax will. (Digital Antennas also have the mini connectors).

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I went with a little smaller and less expensive hailer/listener than the official Standard Horizon accessory speaker. It appears to be the same manufacturer, just sold under the maker's name (Pyle) instead of SH. Works fine and tucks up under my cabin overhang better. I offset it to port behind the windshield pillar, so I can't really see it from the helm.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002U ... UTF8&psc=1

So far I have used it to listen to gulls feeding on a distant bait ball and otters cracking open clams. Probably not its intended purpose, but fun. Now when I'm in the fog I can yell "help, I'm lost!" at two minute intervals.

Mark

 

[BrentB]

I recently bought an Uniden radio with DSC, It is very compact and mounted overhead. It was $100 and not high end but I like the display better and
to replace a 15+ years SH unit. The unit has tri scan and DSC, and suits our needs for fishing. Our handheld is SH unit but the generation before the new one with better display. I keep it by the helm and as a second radio and agree with Bob. I keep the AA battery pack in the ditch bag. Antenna is Shakespeare XT Galaxy 8 feet and roof mounted. Digital antennas are easy to install.
The gold factory-attached mini-UHF female connector with PL-259 (UHF) adapter makes connecting to the radio easy, eliminating the need to solder connectors

Shakespeare requires soldering the connector or their no solder connector. see https://www.amazon.com/Shakespeare-PL-2 ... B000K2IGPE

From Amazon
Uniden UM415 Advanced Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radio DSC (Digital Selective Calling). All USA/International/Canadian Marine Channels. 1 Watt/25 Watt Transmit Power. Ultra Compact Rugged Construction and JIS7

 

[ssobol]

... I like VHF antennas which have a sold body (metal extension or like the Morad, and the whip on top--these cannot be broken by someone grabbing them! ...

I have a Shakespeare antenna that has the 6' fiberglass extension and a whip. Last time we were retrieving the boat, while I was getting the trailer, the boat started to get away from my wife. Without thinking she grabbed the antenna body and pulled. The antenna was already folded down for transport. Anyway, she pulled the boat back to the dock. After she told what happened I figured it was time for a new antenna. However, when I looked at it, the fiberglass antenna body was not affected by the pulling, but the stainless steel antenna mount was bent. There was also no damage to the cabin roof where the mount attaches either. I was pretty surprised that the weak point of the antenna assembly was the part that I expected to actually be the strongest.

 

[thataway]

fiberglass antenna body was not affected by the pulling, but the stainless steel antenna mount was bent.

If she got it by the extension, that is pretty strong. I am also surprised that the mount bent--but they are not all equal...

 

[JMacLeod]

You are asking if AIS is worth the extra boat unit, or was it the M-506?

I was actually asking about a dedicated AIS transceiver like the Garmin AIS-600 ($1000) or the Em-Trak B100 ($500), but thanks for all the extra info.
Icom owes you a commission. I think you've sold me.

Auto Fog/Hailer function

hook up the hailer

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UL0WEQ/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Cheers. Will do.

For that reason I have two fixed mount VHF radios

I imagine a couple of handhelds could be used the same way in a charging cradle at the helm and could be connected to an external antenna for better reception?

Uniden UM415 Advanced Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radio DSC

If I went the two radio route like Bob that would probably be a good choice for an inexpensive backup.

If you are contemplating the transceiver (Garmin 600) then get the MMSI from the FCC

Thanks. I saw that a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is also required if using the VHF in a foreign port.
I'm on the FCC site looking over the forms.

(Lazy in my old age)

If necessity is the mother of invention, laziness must be it's father.

Finally antennas--buy the best you can.

I plan to mount the antennas on the arch.
Digital gets hyped a lot in threads on the other forum, but I'll look into the Morad now as well.

 

[gulfcoast john]

Bob posted:
"If you are contemplating the transceiver (Garmin 600) then get the MMSI from the FCC--since you cannot use the Sea Tow/Boat US number in a transmitter, or out of the territorial US waters (although many do use them in Canada)... "

My experience buying a Garmin 600 from West Marine (mainly for the Gold rebate points) was that the attempted purchase automatically brought me to the West registration experts who sent me a simple online form to fill out including boat name, riegistration number, antenna position (ft from aft, ft from beam), my current MMSI from BoatUS, and a few other simple things. They made it clear this has to be right and can not be changed once programmed into the Garmin AIS 600 without sending it back to the factory (much like intital programming of a MMSI number into a VHF). My understanding is that the FCC does not allow the lay boater purchaser to program in this info, not that the purchaser must deal with the FCC directly in any way or program it herself. My experience is with a 2015 purchase, and of course, things may have changed, as they always do. If I'm wrong on this in the current climate, I hope Bob will chime in with the current rules.

We just returned from a month scouting out Ontarios's waterways by car, including 25 of the 45 Trent-Severn locks and the Georgian Bay Inside Passage. We were hand-shake distance from hundreds of multi-Looper boats and crews and got a uniform message on these issues:

They don't inspect or care about Porti-Potti's. Don't pollute the pristine waters, which are pure enough to drink.
Change your VHF from USA to CAN. Technically you can't transmit without a Radiophone license but they don't hold US boats to that. They all also transmitted their AIS signals without any harrassment.
If trailering in then planning to cruise, there is a form to post in the boat window. Many didn't and didn't know what I was talking about and got no harrassement from authorities. Perhaps multi-million dollar yachts were exempt, I wouldn't know.
Bring some Canadian cash from your local bank for farmer's markets and the Gyros stand which does not take credit cards right next to the Westin Harborfront Toronto etc. Otherwise they pretend their dollar @ .76% is equal to ours.

JMacloud:
I think having the target AIS rec-only boat show up in color on a big screen (which you have already paid for, after all) is worth the 0.25 Boat Unit. Whether having you show up on their screen for 1 Boat Unit is a different question. I think generally so, Bob thinks generally not, and it is something honest captains can dicker about over a Nashville micro brew or two.

Over many years, I have favored the top-line ICOM VHF for top quality and sound (I don't like to take my hearing aids over the water). The issue of the Garmin VHF200 or higher being easier to link up in you suite is very minor IMHO. Get the best ICOM without AIS and a Garmin AIS.
We too like the Std Horizen GPS, DSC one button Distress floating 870 and 871, we have 2 in the ditch bag and one one the boat.
Cheers! See some of you soon at the Alton Gathering and then on the Cumberland and Tenn rivers!
John

 

[thataway]

John,
You are correct that if you are only going to have an AIS transmitter in the US waters, then you can use the Alternate to the FCC MMSI. However, if you go to Canada, Mexico, the Bahamas, etc--then:

"If your boating takes you to international ports, you must obtain a Ship Station License and your MMSI number from the FCC. Go to FCC Ship Station Licensing for instructions."

I understand that you apparently poled some loopers on their AIS and MMSI numbers and felt that it was not necessary to have FCC numbers, which are entered into the international data base. If I were to venture into any of these foreign waters, I want my boat to be legal. It is a bad day when your vessel is seized by authorities for not following that international rules. I have seen this happen in several countries; not a pretty picture.

I would have an AIS transmitter, if I was voyaging internationally, if I was frequently boating in crowded harbors, and or was frequently in areas of low visibility, including a lot of night time boating. Under those conditions, I might consider a Class A AIS. Rather than a class B. However, with the conditions I encounter, the Class B works well--I want to know the name of the tug and tow around the bend or the course of an occasional commercial ship. Our night running is mostly on upper Perdido Bay, and I have never seen an AIS signal, let alone another boat at night!

 

[ssobol]

Bit off topic, but here goes: Is a MMSI number (I do have one) really required for a DSC VHF distress signal to work? To the best of my knowledge DSC radio distress sends your position (why you need a GPS connected to your VHF) AND your MMSI number. The MMSI number sent allows the responders to look up your information in a database to find out your name, address, boat name, boat type, contact info, etc. Some places say that the responders can try to contact you before they launch a rescue to ensure it is not a false alarm. Even if they don't get your MMSI, they will still get a distress signal and a lat/lon.

Other information seems to indicate that without a MMSI number the distress function is disabled somehow.

Also, it would seem that DSC is not really what the distress function is all about. DSC is supposedly analogous to a phone number that allows one DSC radio to call another directly (like a phone call). Maybe the distress function takes advantage of some of the DSC features and capability, but AFAIK DSC and distress are two different things.

 

[gstraub]

I believe most if not all DSC radios will require you to program the MMSI number before it will be able to transmit a DSC distress call. The GX2200 is certainly that way. The reason radios only allow the MMSI number to be programmed once (or twice on some early radios) is that the authorities did not want anyone making false distress calls, changing the MMSI and doing it again, and again, etc., or masking their vessel's identity for other nefarious reasons. If you hit that red button, they really want to know who you are, and in fact, if I'm in dire enough straits to push that red button, I really want them to know who I am too!

 

[Peter & Judy]

The DSC Distress call feature was the number one reason that I upgraded my VHF. My boat originally came out of Washington State. It had a US MMSI number programmed into it. The Red Distress button would still work, but the information it would give would indicate that it was a US boat and that the owner, who sold it many years ago, was from Washington. From Washington it went to the Yukon, where that buyer didn't bother to reprogram to a Canadian MMSI number. When I contacted RayMarine about reprogramming my MMSI Number they were hesitant and I needed to send the radio to the US. Considering the cost of doing this, return shipping and the possibility that they could not reprogram it, because it is a radio model that is no longer supported by RayMarine for servicing. I decided to spend the money on the upgrade instead.

If I ever have to send a DSC Distress call now, the Coast Guard will know, who I am, where I live, have emergency contact information and most importantly know what size and kind of boat to look for. I also have my handheld VHF radios programmed with individual DSC numbers. When I was obtaining the MMSI numbers for these, I noted on the form that my wife and I would use these primarily in our sea kayaks. So once again they would know to look for a kayak in a distress situation.

I don't know much about the registry procedure in the US, but I would obtain the highest level of government registration to allow me to boat anywhere. I believe that the US Coast Guard would have access to my Canadian MMSI information should I decide to boat in US waters. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.