Comnav 1420 Autopilot

J

Jimmylee

New member
Hello all - I'm looking into autopilots and the Comnav 1420 unit has caught my eye. It controls your main motor, and seems to be a pretty simple system that will work well with my existing seastar hydraulic steering system. I will be using it for trolling while fishing (by connecting kicker to main with tie bar), but I also like the fact you can use it while cruising during running speeds. Is anyone out there using this system?? I would love to hear some real world experiences with this unit before I make any final decisions.

Thanks in advance.

Chip
 
A couple of comments, even though I've never heard of this autopilot.

First, it is the only autopilot that has provisions for cable steering. This would remove the requirement to have hydraulic steering.

Second, it only appears to have a 0183 output, giving heading @ 1/sec. This means that it cannot follow a GPS route.

Couldn't find a comment on dependability. It's about the same price as the new Raymarine units (I believe.).

What would be the reason to buy this autopilot? This isn't a negative comment, just curious.

Boris
 
I had a larger ComNav Pilot, and my experience was not entirely positive. When I sold the Cal 46, we had to upgrade to the latest model and processor--at full retail price. Early on there were some shady operations--such as putting a test board in the pilot, and it worked fine--then taking the test board out--and not working--telling me it was "fixed". Cost a lot of time and aggravation, and I was there in BC….Also cost a bunch of hand steering, when the pilot should have handled the boat. (was find going South, but was not steering well going North). With the very fast GPS rates of many latest models, the GPS via NMEA 2000 is as good as a rate gyro compass. (which will be better than a fluxgate).

Aside from the NMEA 0183 (in and out) as Boris mentioned, it requires rudder feedback--most of the modern outboard pilots do not require Rudder feedback. Rudder feedback is often a problem on outboard powered vessels.

I probably would pass.
 
Well thanks for the responses. I will continue to do some research on this topic. What are some other autopilots that folks have used (and are happy with) that control their main motor but also work at slow speeds for trolling?? I do like the idea of being able to use the autopilot for both trolling and cruising.

Chip
 
Chip, I'm thinking about adding an autopilot to my CD-22 also. I've heard the Raymarine S1000 has worked well for a few folks (and sucked for others...), but doesn't look like it's available any more. I think it was Bob that mentioned to me the RayMarine EV100. I've started looking at that one some, and curious if anyone has any experience with that one. I'm also assuming it's listed price at $1499.99 is relatively inexpensive, but since I'm new to all this, maybe someone can comment on pricing of autopilots also. I would use an autopilot for trolling and cruising. Also wonder just how much space a system would take up. Colby
 
The pilot I like best is the Simrad AP 24, not the cheapest however. The new RayMarine gets good reviews. The Garmin also is good. There are lots of choices--and some depend on what electronics you already have. For example if you have RayMarie, I would look very hard at the RayMarine pilot.

Usually the pump goes behind the console bulkhead--but can be put under the galley, along with the "brains" box. The compass, if used, under the v berth area, but away from any anchor or anchor chain (or other ferrous elements). Some pumps can be noisy. Always good to go up in size, rather than under sized. But the 22/25 are fairly small boats, so most of the cheaper pilots work well--just be sure the pump will handle the displacement of the hydraulic ram.
 
I've got the Garmin GPSMAP 840xs, but assume the RayMarine EV100 would be able to "talk" with it. Not really sure what size steering ram I have on my boat, (and with it 2 degrees out right now, and windchills forecast tomorrow of-30, I'm not going to be uncovering it anytime soon to look :xseek . But I was assuming the smaller autopilots could handle it. The Simrads I've seen don't appear to come as a complete package. They look more like just the control head, plug and play, and I'm not really sure what that means..... I really don't want to spend over $1000, but looks like I may have to raise that limit to $1500 to find anything. I like the idea of mounting the stuff in the galley, but may be ok with the back of the helm bulkhead, as that's probably the closest to the hydraulic fittings. Just depends on how much space it takes.
 
I would serially check out the Garmin GHP 20 autopilot, I have the older version TR-1 Gladiator but not much has changed.

This system will allow you to troll at speed down to 3mph, I’ve gone slower.

 The magic behind the system is a Sensor ball with internal gyrocompass and flux gate.  The sensor ball detects the boats direction, no need to even have it attached to your GPS and there is no motor position sensor to go bad.

Granted if you tie it into your GPS you can use the GO TO function or follow a saved track, nether of which I ever do but the function is there if you want it. This autopilot can also tie into fly by wire throttle controlled systems and do things like maintain position and other stuff that’s way beyond the scope of my boating needs.

The pump ties into your SeaStar or what every hydraulic steering system your boat has; there are kits to match about every conceivable configuration.

Last fall I was out doing some end of season shrimping single handed in nasty weather, the TR-1 allowed me to point the boat into the weather and hold that position at a slow speed while pulling the pots otherwise the wind and current was too much for my pot puller. 

When we dragged anchor in the middle of a pitch dark-rainy-windy night a couple seasons ago, I found it impossible to get the boat on course to a safe anchorage.  The GPS lag time was such that I found myself going in circles; this was before I installed a whisky compass. In desperation I spooled up the TR-1 and engaged the autopilot, taking my hands off the wheel.  The boat settled on a true course and we were able to navigate to a suitable spot and re-set the anchor.

Right now I see some pretty sweet deals on this system, granted the installation seems a bit daunting but the owner’s manual and installation instruction are pretty straight forward.

 
 
Well I put in the Con Nav 1420 last year. Converted to Baystar steering at the same time. Previously had no feedback cable steering which always worked great. Except the Raymarine Sportpilot Plus autopilot never worked very well. In for repairs a couple of times. Replaced parts, no improvement. I have Furono Radar and Lowrance and Humminbird sounders/gps mapping. So three GPS units with separate GPS antenna modules. The 1420 worked great for me this past year. Mind you I have five months experience with it but it worked better than I expected, in fact as good as advertised. However, just as when someone asks me how I like my occasional new truck, I say "I don't know, ask me again if a few years."

I put the electric pump in the starboard lazarette. Noisy sucker but not so noticeable when motors running. Incidentally the pump is good help bleeding the system single handed. I used regular hydraulic hoses and fittings from the steering wheel pump back to the electric pump. So should be pretty leak free there. I used the BayStar hoses from the electric pump to the BayStar ram.

I troll a lot on the west shore of Lake Michigan. Tends to be a bit bumpy. Every wave weighs so much more than my little cockleshell of a boat and the waves come from all directions. Also there are more underground currents in the lake than most people realize, and the currents can change. So you need a down probe to check speed at the depth of the fish (10 to 150 feet plus) as well as the temp. Sometimes your baits are going two mph and the boat is only going 1/2 mph because of the current and you may be going into the waves (running uphill as we say). The gps thinks you are almost standing still and the boat may not point the right way. I absolutely wanted a rudder control sensor on my AP connected to a compass. You need to keep going straight even at very low speeds. If it is a calm day (and the fish are not biting) I may be trolling with eight or nine lines, usually four to six. You go off course and lose a lot of time. Many find the rudder position sensor essential for this type of activity. Note, I have zero experience with the most modern AP units which may do better without the rps. I troll with one of the 40hp engines and can go as slow as I want. I switch off from time to time to keep hours equal. I also put in a second control head for the AP so I can steer with the AP from the cockpit.

The 1420 unit will follow gps routes but I don't use it much for that. I usually set it to cruise to a point and then reset it for the next point. It tracks arrow straight at planing speeds of 12 to 20. Better than a human can steer. I find I usually am at 14 or 18 mph (not knots) when cruising. The AP has a high speed (over 5 mph or so) and a low speed setting. This is not a modern unit. It has a fluxgate compass which I put low under my feet at the helm, and a largish control box which is under my shelving in the galley. Then there are the two control heads and rudder sensor. The cables from each of those units go the control box and then you have to connect all the little individual wires. PIA, predates the nice cable connectors on my other stuff.

Now a modern AP that will track a depth contour would be awfully nice I think. But would have involved a more thorough electronic upgrade.

So I have one of those 1420s, it works fine, I wanted the rudder sensor and the two contol heads. It is only slightly older in design than my other electric stuff. (One GPS Sonar is new cuz I wanted side scan). Is it reliable, don't know. Many on Hull Truth said it was OK. It works good so far. On the other hand I always listen very carefully to what Dr. Bob says. He has helped me in the past and lots of Brats have newer stuff. So do I recommend it? Ask me in a few years.
 
Jay, from what I'm seeing on that Garmin system you mentioned, looks like pricing for a complete system would be over $2500. In fact, one system that looks complete showed $4000. Another system, that I believe was without pump was $1800. If those numbers are correct, it's a bit more than I am willing to spend. I wish my local West Marine would carry more items in store to look at, but they have a very limited supply of electronics on display. And I'm finding it's a bit confusing looking at the various websites. I see some autopilots advertised for around $500, but I suspect those are not complete systems. And there doesn't seem to be many complete systems in the $1500 range, the Raymarine EV100 being one of the few. Colby
 
colbysmith":3soo5scl said:
Jay, from what I'm seeing on that Garmin system you mentioned, looks like pricing for a complete system would be over $2500. In fact, one system that looks complete showed $4000. Another system, that I believe was without pump was $1800. If those numbers are correct, it's a bit more than I am willing to spend. I wish my local West Marine would carry more items in store to look at, but they have a very limited supply of electronics on display. And I'm finding it's a bit confusing looking at the various websites. I see some autopilots advertised for around $500, but I suspect those are not complete systems. And there doesn't seem to be many complete systems in the $1500 range, the Raymarine EV100 being one of the few. Colby
Click to expand...

http://g.factoryoutletstore.com/details ... 05-15.html

I think you could get all you need for under 2500, core kit + adapter and perhaps a valve kit if your installation requires it. I would call the outlet sit for specifics, still more money than some are willing to invest I guess.
 
Jay, that last unit for $1679 started peaking my interest....and then I saw the "pump not included". Still looks like the RayMarine unit (EV-100) is the cheapest thing I've seen. I suppose I should contact RayMarine and see if they know if it's compatible with the Garmin GPS. At least I'll know then if it's still worth looking at.
 
Wow, didn't remember spending that much for our Autopilot - I'll need to take better care of it. For some reason I thought it was much cheaper.
 
Wish that one you had (Raymarine s1000) was still available. I did find one website selling it for around $500, but then some more research showed it was a scam site in Indonesia.... :-( I think I may get the RayMarine EV100 come spring (or maybe earlier) unless I change my mind or find something less expensive. That one is available at Amazon for $1362.
 
I've used an autopilot since the '70s and, as mentioned above, they let one concentrate on real piloting: concentrating on the route, watching for nefarious objects such as logs and boats, etc. And it sure as hell beat trying to get the kids to steer. So, I'm for them.

My experience is with Raymarine, starting with the cheapest one and advancing to the hydraulic unit on Journey On. Why? Well, cost is a strong starter. The new EV-100 retails for $1300 which is about 1/2 of the cost of a Garmin. And it seems to have the right components: sensor, control unit, display and pump, unless I've read something wrong.

Also add in that they work well, have been reliable and when they needed fixing (didn't say they're prefect,) the service has been good. Took us to the South Pacific, Alaska and the last 10 years on Journey On.

Boris
 
Well I have to say the comments on this thread are much appreciated. Mark S, thanks for chiming in. It is good to hear from someone who is using the Comnav 1420.

As I continue to read up on the different autopilot systems I am also intrigued by the Raymarine EV100 mentioned above. Has anyone who is using this found that it performs well at slower trolling speeds?? Sounds like a nice simple system that doesn't require rudder feedback. I also couldn't find on the web if a remote control is an option for this system. Does anyone out there know if this is an option?? I would like this option so that I can control the autopilot from the cockpit when fishing.

Chip
 
You should be able to use a control head on a long cable, if there is not the opportunity for the use of two control heads (as often used with boats which have flying bridges, or a second station aft).

I have used a single control head on as much as a 30 foot cable--you may have to make a small box, or use a box from home depot to enclose the back side, or make a bracket for support in the cabin. The other option is to wire the plug for either at the core or an extension to that fitting with a second similar plug in the cockpit.
 
Jimmylee":1uj4vuh8 said:
Well I have to say the comments on this thread are much appreciated. Mark S, thanks for chiming in. It is good to hear from someone who is using the Comnav 1420.

As I continue to read up on the different autopilot systems I am also intrigued by the Raymarine EV100 mentioned above. Has anyone who is using this found that it performs well at slower trolling speeds?? Sounds like a nice simple system that doesn't require rudder feedback. I also couldn't find on the web if a remote control is an option for this system. Does anyone out there know if this is an option?? I would like this option so that I can control the autopilot from the cockpit when fishing.

Chip
Click to expand...

Hello Chip,

I have the RAymarine EV200 with the sportdrive in my Ranger Tug 21EC. I installed the unit in July 2014 and have used it about 40 hours. It tracks well at 2-3 mph and I would suspect it will pilot your boat at slow troll speeds.

I can compare the EV200 to the earlier generation Raymarine Smartpilot X5 which I installed in my previous boat (a Cape Cruiser 23) in May 2011 (thread here http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=15956&highlight=). That AP was good meaning it functioned as designed. It utilized NMEA 0183 TINY wires to interface with my GArmin chartplotter. Again, that worked but was tedious to install.

The EV200 on the other hand is GREAT. It maintains a course with considerable better accuracy than the Smartpilot X5. It is modular and everything connects with NMEA 2000 cables...makes set-up very simple. My tug has cable steering so my AP does not use a hydraulic pump but rather the sport pilot drive.

You were asking about the EV100 which is different from the EV200. The whole Evolution line is modular in the sense that you pick a package with the appropriate course computer (ACU 100, 200, 300, or 400), drive type (tiller, wheel, or hydraulic pump), EV heading sensor (EV-1 or 2), and user interface (p70 or p70R). I have the p70R which is very nice. It includes a rotary knob which allows you to steer the boat simply by turning the knob. Every "click" of the knob is 1 degree....very easy to make course corrections. I believe Raymarine has remote (wireless) options for control of AP as well.

Fair Winds and Autopilots,

/david
 
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