Coast Guard Documentation

There is no maintance fee to the federal government. Self documentation or undocumentation is easy and all of the instructions are on line. You can pay some one to do these for you if you wish--but it is not at all necessary.

Many states do require stickers (but not the state number) to allow the water or tax police to know that you have paid the state their due. For example a 16 to 26 foot boat in Florida costs about $22 a year in registration fees. There are a few cases where taxes may be avoided, but they are few. The documented status is slightly more secure than some states titles. A lien search as well as a chain of ownership search is easily preformed on a documented vessel.

There used to be some advantages, like the boat could be taken by the defense department and used for sub partrols during war time, or the marines could be sent to reclaim the US vessel. It is actually a little easier checking in and out of foreign ports with a documented vessel--just because the officials are used to working with a document, than a state registration. I would not carry my title aboard--but you are required to have the document aboard. I have documented the vast majority of my vessels--if nothing else to get away from the numbers on the bow. However the Tom Cat 255 came with numbers--and I have not yet transfered it to document status (the factory didn't send the correct information--and I suspect that they had not done a builders certificate previously).
 
Glad to see some positive info on documenting. I am definitely going to document my boat as soon as I complete the purchase. It will be docked in Washington DC waters - so skipping their 6% sales tax will save me more than a year's slip fees.
 
My CD-25 has been documented. I am getting the markings into compliance now. For the vessel's document number on the hull in 3" numbers -- does the finished, smooth, white surface under the v-berth cushions qualify as the hull? And if so, would CG inspectors readily recognize that surface as the hull? Looks like an easy spot to put the numbers with a coat of epoxy. Thanks for any info.
 
If I remember things correctly
You sealed up your boat and put it in a swimming pool. Sank the boat
underwater and weighted the water that splashed out of the pool that
would be what the boats displacement would be. No water could enter
the boat and all the water would need to be gathered. It has nothing to
do with what a boat weighs on a trailer. The specifications should be
on the C Dory web page but I have not checked.
Bob Heselberg
 
Catbird":2iyy2172 said:
My CD-25 has been documented. I am getting the markings into compliance now. For the vessel's document number on the hull in 3" numbers -- does the finished, smooth, white surface under the v-berth cushions qualify as the hull? And if so, would CG inspectors readily recognize that surface as the hull? Looks like an easy spot to put the numbers with a coat of epoxy. Thanks for any info.
Click to expand...

I would think that is fine. To be technical, you have to affix the numbers
in such a way that it would be obvious if they were removed. I ground
mine in on a previous boat with a Dremel.

(Those are such cool tools. I needed to a make a hole in the
helm for some wires slightly larger. Major pain to do with a drill.
Easy with the Dremel and a cutting bit. Anyway...)

Mike
 
Thanks for all the replies.

Mike - the dremel is on my list.

In reply to Jeff on C-Pelican: The lettering is going on the cabin sides on my boat too - there's really no other place for the 4" lettering. And, unfortunately, there's no way to shorten up Washington, DC. So there is some visual clutter.

But the documentation for a DC-based boat has worked out really well. As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, with the boat in DC waters, the total cost to register the documented boat was just $25 annually. The documentation procedure was very easy using the CG's online simplified measurement tool. The DC govt was very easy to deal (a most welcome surprise!). I provided them with copies of the documentation filing papers and they issued a temporary registration which I was allowed to use until the final document arrived (took about 6-8 weeks). I went ahead and checked out Maryland's requirements, in case I went to spend some time on the Chesapeake. No MD registration is required for a boat unless it spends the majority of the calendar in MD waters. Won't be a problem unless the boat is in their water for more than five months a year. (I guess I'll open a ship's log to document its whereabouts.)

My next job is to re-register as a C-Brat with my boat's new name and a new username so I can properly introduce myself to the board. Anyone know how I can make those changes?
 
Catbird,

RE: changing your username.

Send a Private Message (the link is in the menu at the top of the page) to Tyboo requesting the change. He may still be on vacation right now, so have a little patience.
 
I am being forced to document Reefmadness. I believe that the simplified measurement method requires the Tomcat to be calculated as if it were a monohull vessel. I am waiting for the FACT OF BUILD BUILDERS CERTIFICATE, from C-Dory. The formula for calculating the tonnage has two constants that have to be dealt with, hull shape and keel type. Has anyone calculated the tonnage on a TC255?

Gene Morris
 
I did calculate the tonage for the Tom Cat: there are two peculars which apply: first is that the boat does not qualify as a multihull:"For the purposes of simplified measurements, twin hull and tri hull vessels are defined as only those which have no bouyant volume in the structure which connects the hulls together."

At rest, the Tom Cat 255 the wing deck under surface is under water when the boat is at rest or at low speeds.

The second issue, is that the Armstrong Brackets provide bouyancy when at rest, so that the boat's length becomes 27feet six inches rather than 25 feet 6 inches. This should be refected in the Master Builder's certificate.

The beam is 8' 6". The depth is 3' 9" and this calculates to 5 net tons.

The newer PDF forum does not allow as much fooling around with the numbers as did the interactive site. But it does show the tonnage in the upper right corner.
 
thataway":3h05xeam said:
I did calculate the tonage for the Tom Cat: there are two peculars which apply: first is that the boat does not qualify as a multihull:"For the purposes of simplified measurements, twin hull and tri hull vessels are defined as only those which have no bouyant volume in the structure which connects the hulls together."

At rest, the Tom Cat 255 the wing deck under surface is under water when the boat is at rest or at low speeds.

The second issue, is that the Armstrong Brackets provide bouyancy when at rest, so that the boat's length becomes 27feet six inches rather than 25 feet 6 inches. This should be refected in the Master Builder's certificate.

The beam is 8' 6". The depth is 3' 9" and this calculates to 5 net tons.

The newer PDF forum does not allow as much fooling around with the numbers as did the interactive site. But it does show the tonnage in the upper right corner.
Click to expand...

Interesting idea here...how is buoyancy defined in the quote you have above? I don't follow how the wing section or the armstrong brackets provide buoyancy. Also, how did you determine 5 tons?

Thanks
 
If a part of the boat is in the water, there is an assumption that it provides bouyancy. In my boat, the waterline is several inches above the bottom of the wing deck, the part immersed comes about 1/3 of the length of the hulls from the stern foreward. The part of the Armstrong brackets are also immersed, and would provide floatation or bouyance at rest. (The bouyancy can be at rest only, and not when at speed, as is the case of the Tom Cat 255. ) There does not have to be a calculation of the amount of bouyancy. See the photograph below which shows the waterline, and that the bridge or wing deck is submerged:

The Coast guard documentation site has changed as of Jan 1 2008. You used to fill out an interactive form and play around with the numbers to get the max, considering hull type and depth (not draft--the depth is measured from the top of the gunnel. In some vessels the volume of the deck house may be added if it is greater than the volume of the hull.)

The new web site has an interactive PDF document, which you can print out--and it is the form you submit to the Coast Guard. The documentation site is at:
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/nvdc.htm

The interactive document is at:
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/CG ... v1%200.pdf

You put in the numbers and type of hull form. With the new forum it does not seem to allow to use the "barge or box" type.



Aft_waterline.jpg
 
Thanks for the links.

Did you submit the form to the CG with the measurements or did you get 5 tons using the (pre Jan 2008) application? In either case I find it very interesting the Tomcat comes out to 5 net tons.
 
Thatway, the Tom Cat 255, is not documented. The dealer had submitted for numbers, and not obtained the master builder's certificate (as I had requested). When we finally got the certificate, it was in error, and I just kept the state numbers, since there was no advantage to me. I had a higher tonage of 6 net tons. This was using the older interactive forum, and a "box" or barge hull form. I have all of the paper work but did not submit it.

The 5 net tons is from the current PDF site.

The CD 25 (Frequent Sea) I did document, and it is 5 Net Tons.
 
thataway":2rl6h33m said:
Thatway, the Tom Cat 255, is not documented. The dealer had submitted for numbers, and not obtained the master builder's certificate (as I had requested). When we finally got the certificate, it was in error, and I just kept the state numbers, since there was no advantage to me. I had a higher tonage of 6 net tons. This was using the older interactive forum, and a "box" or barge hull form. I have all of the paper work but did not submit it.

The 5 net tons is from the current PDF site.

The CD 25 (Frequent Sea) I did document, and it is 5 Net Tons.
Click to expand...

This is an older thread but I have been thinking about the tonnage of the Tomcat. I came across the current version of the interactive form. I took it from the USCG site and posted it on my site as a resource.

http://www.commercialcaptains.com/Artic ... G_5397.pdf

The wing deck and Armstrong bracket clearly provide buoyancy. Based on the hull shape at rest, it makes sense the barge/box would be most accurate. Without factoring in the cabin, I come up with 7 tons. It would be interesting to measure the cabin and plug in the exact number to see if that increases the tonnage. The "principle structure" of the cabin would have the 6'6" figure if I interpret the form correctly.

Thoughts?

--Matt
 
Matt,
All that is necessary is that the vessel be more than 5 tons admeasured. I am using a Mac currently and it does not properly interact with the form--so I cannot say if the current forumula would differ from the 6 tons I got--but it makes no practical difference. The deck house--would be subject to some interputation--although it begins at the bottom of the wing deck, any "draft" would be from the top of the gunnel to the top of the cabin--more like 4.5 feet high, 9 feet long, and about 7.5 feet wide--then the foreward trunk cabin 1.5 feet high, 4 feet long and 6 feet wide. I doubt that this volume would exceed that of the hull--which is 27.5 feet long, 8.5 feet wide, and 3.8 feet deep)--some approximate numbers I came up with would be: 888 cubic feet of hull volume, (assuming the barge like hull. The deck house would only be approximately: 340 cubic feet--and thus not in excess of the volume of the hull). Remember that the hull is from the top of the gunnel, to the bottom of the deepest part of the hull--and much of this area, is well below the sink and table level in the interior of the cabin--all of that part counting as part of the hull, not the deck house.
 
Ah thanks...I read the definition of "overall depth" in the instructions document and it indeed is a measure from the top of the gunwale down. Based on the that the volume inside the cabin would not exceed that of the hull.

Thanks for the clarification!
 
can't see where this has been mention in prior post but, many and i mean many people who have purchased documented vessels form private owners have not paid sales tax! doesn't seem to be any regulatory group that collects same, at time of sale.
several years ago i purchased a documented boat, held for sale by a local dealer, he forced the paying of sales tax ($10,000.+) and to this day i believe they were never forwarded to the state, but kept by the dealer.
pat
 
I cannot speak for Ohio, but suspect Ohio law requires the broker to collect sales tax on any vessel sold in the state--with perhaps some exceptions where the boat is taken directly out of state. For example I did purchased a documented vessel in Ohio and had it shipped directly to Florida--I had to sign papers that I would not use that vessel in Ohio. About 6 months after I had transfered documentation to my name, Florida dept. of Revenue contacted me--even though the boat had never been in Florida, wanting sales tax. Florida and California "mine" or have the Coast Guard foreward addresses of owners and hailing ports of documented vessels which are in their states.

For example, Frequent Sea was purchased in New Jersey, repaired in Florida, but not purchased for use in Florida, and taken to California. I received a letter from Calif. Franchise tax board requesting sales tax. The boat was documented with San Clemente as a hailing port--with my address in Florida as the point of contact. Florida has not contacted me yet about this--but I will have to pay only one sales tax.

There are some states where you may not have to pay sales tax on a documented vessel--but most states now have registration of documented vessels--and they get the tax at the time of "registration" (no state numbers, but stickers are required) Florida is very perticular on this issue.

This is a very complex subject--and I have a certain level of knowlege about Florida and Calif. Laws ref sales tax, registration and documented vessels. It would take many pages to explain all of the exceptions--and some communication I have had with the Attorney General of the Florida Fish and Wildlife commission. However, Florida is basically requiring that any vessel which operates on its waters needs to prove either exemption from sales tax or pay sales tax. If you have paid in another state, then you do not need to pay in Florida. If you purchased the boat, with no intent of bringing the boat into Florida and later bring the boat to Florida you may not have to pay sales tax, but having a Florida address, pretty much proves that you had intent of using that boat in Florida.

I am told that Lousiania does not require sales tax on documented vessels--not sure that is accurate. Check with your local tax office. The FWC is checking boats which arrive in Florida from Alabama for registration stickers and proof that the boat is properly registered and tax was paid. The first stop is a warning, but it is put into the data base. and a second stop may cause action to be taken. We have had boats stopped before reaching the first marina in Pensacola-right at the Alabama Border.
 
My boat is documented, 22' Cruiser, and I love it that way.
No numbers, a one-time fee and then free renewals yearly.

It came that way when I bought it from Dr Bob a few years ago and I would not change it.

Gives it a unique look with no visible state numbers or stickers and I love "educating" many authorities on its legality.
I can't tell you how many water police try to write down my dinghy's numbers for my boats numbers.

I tried not paying the sales tax in California, my home port state, but they tracked me down and I had to pay it in the end...with interest.
 
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