Close encounter of the Orca kind

FWIW, it isn't considered acceptable to do this (putting your boat in the path of the pod) in the Puget Sound. In Alaskan waters I suspect the density of boats is such as to not be a problem. But, if you've ever seen the tangle of boats that follow pods aroud in the PS then you might (or might not) agree its not the best idea

Many will no doubt disagree.

http://www.whalemuseum.org/downloads/so ... nes_02.pdf
 
KenG":2jndsw83 said:
Many will no doubt disagree.
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Including the article you cited:

"Avoid positioning your vessel within the 400 metre/yard area in the path of the whales."

Given that he stated he went "1/2 mile or so" before shutting off and drifting, it sounds like he was being plenty responsible.
 
From the National Marine Fisheries Service, Alaska Marine Mammal Viewing Guidelines and Regulations:

"Federal Laws And Marine Mammal Viewing

The Marine Mammal Protection Act prohibits the TAKE of all marine mammal species in U.S. waters. Take means "to harass, hunt, capture, or kill, or attempt to harass, hunt, capture, or kill," and harassment means "any act of pursuit, torment, or annoyance which has the potential to injure a marine mammal or marine mammal stock in the wild; or has the potential to disturb a marine mammal or marine mammal stock in the wild by causing disruption of behavioral patterns, including, but not limited to migration, breathing, nursing, breeding, feeding, sheltering." TAKE includes feeding or attempting to feed a marine mammal in the wild. Some exceptions are made for authorized scientific research and subsistence hunting by Alaska Natives.

The Endangered Species Act prohibits the TAKE of species listed as endangered or threatened. The definition of TAKE under the Endangered Species Act adds the terms harm, pursue, shoot, wound, trap and collect to the Marine Mammal Protection Act definition of TAKE.


Marine Mammal Viewing
"Code of Conduct"

1. Remain at least 100 yards from marine mammals.

2. Time spent observing individual(s) should be limited to 30 minutes.

3. Whales should not be encircled or trapped between boats, or boats and shore.

4. If approached by a whale, put the engine in neutral and allow the whale to pass.

Federal law prohibits pursuit of marine mammals.

Even if approached by a marine mammal:

1. Offering food, discarding fish or fish waste, or any other food item is prohibited.

2. Do not touch or swim with the animals. They can behave unpredictably and may also transmit disease."

As I see it, Dan did everything by the Alaska book. :) :thup

Wish I was there to see them!

Jim
 
My close encounter on Monday morning at 6am, was pretty impressive, and I have lived in the San Juans for a few years and only had one other closer encounter, and that was with the Whale Museum folks in one of their research boats.(that was in 1979)

One of the most impressive things for me is to be able to hear the whales when they surface and blow, then breath. In the early morning the mist from their breathing hangs in the air and glistens in the low angled light. It is spiritual. Monday morning was clear, completely still, and quiet. I was the only boat within miles. The whales "fished" for over 30 minutes before they headed back north. I was awe-struck.

Blakely_05_134.sized.jpg


A big male breached about 50 feet to my stern and I was so surprised that I missed the picture :shock:

Blakely_05_141.sized.jpg

Robbi
 
A friend of mine was on the Tolleycraft that sunk a few weeks ago in PWS after hitting a whale that they didn't see. He can attest that they "can behave unpredictably". He hasn't broken out in disease yet but did momentarily lose control of his bladder, maybe that's the first symptom!
 
Great pics of the orcas and sea lions, Dan. Amazing what you can see out there in PWS. Not neccessarily a matter of looking for stuff. Just a matter of timing and being in the right place at the right time. Of course having a camera at the ready makes the ability to share these moments.

I'll chip in to help amortize the cost of laminating and printing the warning epistles for the sea critters, in the interest of protecting their civil liberties and/or other encroachment in the face of floating debris such as C-Dorys.

You did very well, my friend. Wish I could have been there.
 
AnchortownJim":d6imkx9i said:
From the National Marine Fisheries Service, Alaska Marine Mammal Viewing Guidelines and Regulations:

"Federal Laws And Marine Mammal Viewing

The Marine Mammal Protection Act prohibits the TAKE of all marine mammal species in U.S. waters. Take means "to harass, hunt, capture, or kill, or attempt to harass, hunt, capture, or kill," and harassment means "any act of pursuit, torment, or annoyance which has the potential to injure a marine mammal or marine mammal stock in the wild; or has the potential to disturb a marine mammal or marine mammal stock in the wild by causing disruption of behavioral patterns, including, but not limited to migration, breathing, nursing, breeding, feeding, sheltering."

[red color added, lots of stuff clipped]
As I see it, Dan did everything by the Alaska book. :) :thup

Wish I was there to see them!

Jim
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I think the part in red is what is a legitimate concern. Does running past the whales by 1/2 mile and then putting one's boat in the presumed migration path have the potential to disturb a marine mammal (including but not limited to migration)? I would definitely agree that if a pod approaches ones boat, nothing wrong was done. However, I think it's a little bit disingenuous to suggest that the encounter itself was the product of pure curiosity on the whale's part when the encounter was definitely part of the boat operator's plan by placing his boat in the presumed migration path.

However, I also loved the photos and am not sure if any REAL harm was caused by Dan's actions and I am sure that Dan would argue that none was. IMHO, probably not this one time but the cumulative effect of many people doing the same kind of thing could potentially impact the behavior. I'm not a whale or wildlife expert so I leave that aspect of the discussion to someone who is.

None-the-less, I don't think we should jump down the throat of someone who raises what I believe is a legitimate concern. Moreover, depending on which wildlife officer, policeman or CG authority is interpretting the law, it would seem possible that one could get cited for similar actions.

Just my 1.5 cents worth.

Roger on the SeaDNA
 
I think that's a great point about steering clear of mammals, guess I rarily thought about it until I tried boating in Alaska. I noticed quickly up here that there are pesky mammals swimming all over the place, Sea Otters, River Otters, Sea Lions, Whales of all sorts, then there's all the damn eagles. Just trying to put a hook in the water will get several of these creatures curiosity up and they'll come check out what you are doing and what they can steal from you. From now on I'll just pull that hook up anytime I see any other creature. Just imagine all the charter boats, fishing boats, recreation boats and float planes all within just feet of MAMMALS! Heck, there is one hell on a Sea Lion that hangs out five to fifteen feet from my dock looking for whatever hits the water.
Not sure how one can operate a boat up here without violating some poor mammal's rights, and that's just the ones we can see. Guess I'd better sell my boats or move inland so I don't upset anyone. I wonder where I can move without upseting a mammal, perhaps New York. Oh yeah, might upset a mouse.

Thanks for being so un-politically correct Dan!
 
I didn't stay "stear clear" or even stay away - sometimes that isn't practical or possible, especially when the animal comes to you. Just was saying that intentionally putting one's boat in the direction of travel of a pod of Orca's may or may not be legal and may or may not be a good thing to do. Hey - I fish too and have had many a seal or sea lion approach the boat. I enjoy seeing them too. I also love to see Orcas and other whales.

But I don't see too many Orca's down here. I think they used to be as plentiful in this area as they are in Alaska. Same thing for sea otters, river otters, and other sea mammals. Now - not so much - probably due to human encroachment of all sorts - both on the water and off. Lets hope the same doesn't happen in Alaska.
 
I guess I shouldn't relay my experience last year regarding seeing 6-8 Dall Porpoises suddenly appearing within 10 feet of the boat while we were drifting for halibut. And I certainly should keep to myself the fact that as we were reeling in our gear (to protect the porpoises, no less), one of them either took my wife's bait or got snagged on it on the way up. It wouldn't be proper to admit that it very quickly stripped off about 150 yards before I realized what was happening and got the knife over to her to clip the line. Because I'm sure somebody somewhere 3000 miles away might think I had done something wrong.

I admit that marine mammals need protection from harassment. There are certainly people out there that would chase them around in order to get a good picture. There are also people that would plow right through a pod at high speed just so they're not 30 seconds late to the fishing grounds. Those types of people are on the water as much as they are on the road, in the woods, or in the city.

I wasn't there, but as the story was told, I don't think that Dan either intentionally or inadvertantly harassed the Orcas. I will concede that it is possible that without his presence there that day, they may not have acted in this particular manner. In fact, they probably did change their behavior because of the situation, just as any animal would. It is my contention, however, that the Orcas aren't the ones being harassed here.

I know. Maybe in order to eliminate the "potential to disturb", the best solution would be to keep all the boats out of the water altogether. I'll get in line to haul out right after all the commercial boats. And after the Native hunters. And after KenG. And maybe after Roger.

Dan- I still love the pics, I'm glad you posted 'em. If I ever get the opportunity to take some as spactacular as those are, I won't hesitate to post 'em here too.
 
AK Angler":pcks2vxa said:
I guess I shouldn't relay my experience last year regarding seeing 6-8 Dall Porpoises suddenly appearing within 10 feet of the boat while we were drifting for halibut. And I certainly should keep to myself the fact that as we were reeling in our gear (to protect the porpoises, no less), one of them either took my wife's bait or got snagged on it on the way up. It wouldn't be proper to admit that it very quickly stripped off about 150 yards before I realized what was happening and got the knife over to her to clip the line. Because I'm sure somebody somewhere 3000 miles away might think I had done something wrong.
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No problem - most reasonable people would agree that you didn't do anything in particular to intentionally put yourself close to these animals and in fact did what you could (given the situation) to protect them. Seems entirely reasonable to me.

AK Angler":pcks2vxa said:
I admit that marine mammals need protection from harassment. There are certainly people out there that would chase them around in order to get a good picture. There are also people that would plow right through a pod at high speed just so they're not 30 seconds late to the fishing grounds. Those types of people are on the water as much as they are on the road, in the woods, or in the city.

I wasn't there, but as the story was told, I don't think that Dan either intentionally or inadvertantly harassed the Orcas. I will concede that it is possible that without his presence there that day, they may not have acted in this particular manner. In fact, they probably did change their behavior because of the situation, just as any animal would.
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I didn't say he harassed them. But I do believe the intention of the law is to avoid intentionally disturbing them. Whether what Dan did resulted in a change in behavior or distrurbing the animals isn't clear. We'll never really know will we?

AK Angler":pcks2vxa said:
It is my contention, however, that the Orcas aren't the ones being harassed here.
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I assume you mean Ken G. who appears to me to be the first target of harassment, correct?

AK Angler":pcks2vxa said:
I know. Maybe in order to eliminate the "potential to disturb", the best solution would be to keep all the boats out of the water altogether. I'll get in line to haul out right after all the commercial boats. And after the Native hunters. And after KenG. And maybe after Roger.
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Didn't suggest that either... but I do make a distinction between being someplace where I am approached by marine mammals and intentionally putting oneself in their path. It really is a relatively minor thing on a one-off basis. But it's not something I would do nor is it something I think everyone should do. The issue is both intent and frequency. If 1000 people, put their boat in the path of the same moving pod of Orcas everyday, it would clearly be a problem. I think that's why the law is written as it is. I do believe that it is possible that one could be cited for this under a strict interpretation of what is an admitedly vague law. I didn't write the law nor do I have any data to indicate that there is an actual impact of Orcas from this kind of thing on a one-off basis. But I do think that Ken G's post was entirely reasonable and I'm not willing to let a reasonable comment get ostracized. Why people have to become polarized is not clear to me...

AK Angler":pcks2vxa said:
Dan- I still love the pics, I'm glad you posted 'em. If I ever get the opportunity to take some as spactacular as those are, I won't hesitate to post 'em here too.
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I love the pics too and said so in my first post. I also indicated that I didn't think Ken G's post was unreasonable. Remember the just be nice rule?....
 
I think it is good to have this discussion. I have seen many posts where people say they are new to boating and they may not be aware that these rules exist. We should also mention that the fines for the marine mammal protection act start at something like $5000. That would make a large dent in my boat fund.

It is probably not too likely that anyone would get fined in less populated areas but where I kayak in San Francisco bay and particularly Monterey bay there are more people and more enforcers.

Personally I am more concerned with my safety than the critters. Last year near Morrow Bay some people where fishing in a 25 to 30ft boat when a Gray breach and landed on the boat. One person was killed. I don't think the people even knew the whale was close or the whale knew the boat was there. Never heard of Orcas doing anything like this but I would not want to be too close.

Steve
 
way cool pics, what kind of camera do you have? Our digital camera has such a delay it's near impossible to get any kind of action shot.

This whole raging debate boils down to one thing and one thing only.....prop size
 
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