Choosing Between Various Heaters and Stoves

S

Sea Wolf

New member
I ran across this source of links to a whole bunch of different stoves and heaters for boats that I thought I'd share with all of you.

While the Wallas is the Gold Standard of choice for factory installations in the C-Dory, lots of other choices exist for boats that came without one.

Take a look HERE. (A few of the links are dated and now non-existent, so be patient.)

Joe.
 
Thanks Joe...coulden't be at a better time for us.... Sue is retiring and we are going to be able to travel and use our boat much more this coming year.....we plan on buying a heater at the Seattle Boat Show this year.....probably end up with the Wallas.... like you said...it is the gold standard.

Joel
SEA3PO
 
Joe

Thanks for the link to stove and heater alternatives.

One heater that might be considered is made by Espar. They make compact, efficient diesel fired heaters for trucks and marine applications.

Richard
 
RichardW":2n3hj2qn said:
Joe

Thanks for the link to stove and heater alternatives.

One heater that might be considered is made by Espar. They make compact, efficient diesel fired heaters for trucks and marine applications.

Richard
Click to expand...

Same with Wabasto :wink: :mrgreen: :beer
 
You guys are right on with the Espar and Webasto!

Great heaters that burn diesel or kerosene.

Kinda like a shop heater, but with externally vented exhaust and a sophisticated forced air heat distribution system.

They're not cheap, running from $1400 on ebay to as much as $2600 retail.

The only concerns besides complexity and cost, is that they start at about 10,000 btus (as I remember), so are a bit overpowering on a 22 or smaller. They would wind up cycling on and off constantly in all but the most severe conditions.

The average gas cooking stove burner puts out about 6000 btus, which is about equal to a 1800 watt heater on the high setting. Here in California, at least, I find it necessary to have a setting of from 2000 to 3000 btus output, and that's sometimes too much!

However, sitting in your C-Dory in Fairbanks in the winter and wishin' you were salmon fishing the long summer days away with your dog(s), you might want the Big Torch style heater! Any single digit weather yet up there?

Joe. :teeth
 
The Small Webasto 2000 is about 6000 BTU on high output. The Toyoset NS 2800 puts out 4900 to 9800 BTU. We used hydronics heaters (diesel fired, hot water circulation) in the larger boats.

For our use, the Wallas and several fans are fine in both the CD 25 and TC 255. One can always put insullation on the inside of the windows and decrease the heat loss during the evenings. We have always turned off the heaters when we went to bed and relied on blankets etc to keep warm. Who ever gets up first to walk the dog, turns on the heater.
 
You don't want the Espar. The cycling on and off will drive you nuts on a small boat. You need one that runs on low almost continuously, like your Webasto stove top. Quieter.
 
I installed a Webasto Airtop 2000 last spring. Now we use the Wallas for cooking and the Webasto for cabin heat. Both are fueled from the same tank. The Webasto fan is less noisy than the Wallas, and the Webasto has a thermostat. Also, I was able to install a couple of vents to defrost the windshield. These are the positives.

The negative is that the Webasto do-it-yourself installation kit comes with about a zillion little pieces, pitiful instructions, and no parts list.
 
Looks like this is the official thread for discussing different stoves?

I'd like to put an externally-vented heater in our 1983 Classic 22'. The cabin on these, as you know, is small. I'm sure a cooktop stove (which I also don;t have yet) would help with the heat, but am afraid it would cause too many condensation headaches.

So in lieu of that, I've been doing a web search on cabin heaters. The most inexpensive ones I can find (budget is an issue) are propane ones. Sig marine makes a Cozy Cabin (model 10000) that West marine sells for $434. Anyone have an experience with these? I could pay twice as much for a Dickinson, or move to diesel and pay even more. So I have two questions:

1) Would the Cozy Cabin be suitable for my size cabin in terms of heat output, etc.?

2) Is propane an inherently worse choice than another fuel?

Thanks!
 
lloyds":2fbnk0hh said:
You don't want the Espar. The cycling on and off will drive you nuts on a small boat. You need one that runs on low almost continuously, like your Webasto stove top. Quieter.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about the Espar? My new boat has it and I was very impressed on how quiet it is, compared to the Wallas. One thing though....it's out in the cockpit part of the engine compartment. When inside, all we hear inside is the fan.

-Greg
 
This seems as good a place as any to insert a link to the Wallas factory recommended service: Wallas Recommended Service. Don't worry it's in English.

Also, a couple of years ago, an English catamaran organization posted a service guide for Wallas stoves. I thought I saved a copy, but can't find it. Anybody remember where or have a copy?

Boris
 
Propane give about 92,000 BTU per gallon. This would be a little over 15 hours of heat per gallon of propane. You have to fit the propane bottle so that it is sealed off from the cockpit and vents overboard--probably converting one of the lazarettes to this function would work the best--but not sure what size propane bottle you can get in this space. I suspect that you can get a 10lb bottle [2.4 gallons] (horizontal) in one of those lockers. These are listed at $255 at West Marine. I have always used aluminum propane bottles in boats, because of corrosion--and availability of the horizontal bottles in steel painted bottles. Also to be ABYC compliant you will need a selenoid valve (and I feel that you also need a propane sniffer)--add in another $319. Not sure how long the hose is going to be, but figure with fittings that the cost will probably be about $5 a foot.

You probably will want some type of fan--to circulate the warm air--add another $40. So the cheaper heater, may not be as cheap as it seems.

Propane is a great fuel--I have used it on all of my cruising boats for almost 50 years. But you do have to have the shut off vavle, sniffer, proper installation etc. You do not want propane in the cabin or in the cockpit (propane is heavier than air and will pool in these places.). I have also personally seen two boat blow up with propane, and know of another two boats which were lost with propane, and have treated two people who had injuries from propane explosion--plus treated several others with CO poisoning from unvented heaters... so it is a fuel not to be taken lightly. Each individual has to decide if they want all of the safety features, or take a risk. I have always used the safety features with Propane, and for small boats felt that it was a bit of a hassel--thus the Wallas as a good alternative.

I happen to love the Wallas (mainly because I have been very lucky and had no problems with the three I have owned). It is vented to the outside, it has a fan, and it uses relitatively safe fuel. There are other kerosene/diesel heaters which might be a better choice (cost wise and only heaters) Toyo makes a boat heater, but I am not sure who carries them in the US. Taylor also makes diesel boat heaters, as does. Webasto used to make some small heaters (of course there is Hi seas and Dickenson). The problem with drip pot burners is that they can back draft, unless forced draft, such as the Wallas.
 
siddfynch-

This is one of those topics that we go around on yearly about now, in the fall, when the weather turns cold.

First, look through all the cabin interior photos of different heater installations. The ones on my boat, Sea Wolf, which features a Cozy Cabin heater and a three burner propane cook top, have full explanations of how and why everything was done, including safety measures, and the tank placment. Start HERE.

Then you can go to the Cabin, Interior Forum and read about the topics on heaters and stoves. Forget about the Wallas, Webasto, and Espar if you don't want to spend $2500-$3000. The Toyotomi is about $1500 (a few years ago anyway), but will drive you crazy cycling on and off all night, as it's output is too great for a CD-22, and it can only cycle on and off to maintain a temperature, there being no multiple output level settings.

There will be discussions of the pros and cons of using a Mr. Buddy Heater (unvented) as well. Read them carefully!

Let us know what additional questions you have.

Good Luck!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
It dropped to about 12 degrees last night here in North Pole. There's maybe an inch or two of snow on the ground and the pond out by our lane has a thin film of ice on it. Winter is a-coming, alright.

I have a small Danielson on the C-Farer. It fits right in the back corner of the cabin. I like the sealed air intake-exhaust system just fine. The fan circulates the air enough to keep the windows from fogging up when it's rainy and the temps drop into the 50's and below.

I got 3 nights of heat this August out of a one-pound bottle of propane and I was very glad to have the stove on those cool nights out on the water. The stove came mounted on a nice stainless steel heat shield that we cut to fit the cabin, too.

If you search the message threads, you'll find someone's propane box that was installed in the cockpit on the starboard side next to the bulkhead. That's a nice place to put your tank and provide a step up, too.

Pat
 
The Espars I have had were all mounted in the cockpit lazarettes, which although outside the cabin area, were still too close to the living area. The do such a good job that they go through the start up cycle, hot air blows, then a couple minutes later the living space reaches the temperature you set and they shut down. But on boats the living space cools down so fast that the heater then cycles on again. A bit noisy.
 
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