CD25 water in the fuel tank area

S

Slipknot

New member
On my 25 cruiser there is some water in the hull, below the sole, that you can see when the two round access plates in the side steps are removed.

All the interior hatches are dry and the bilge is dry, but this water is trapped and can't flow to the bilge.

How does it get there? The boat sat in the rain at the dealer for a number of months, but the sole seems to be well sealed.

Any thoughts appreciated.

[url=https://ibb.co/cFQrDk][img]https://preview.ibb.co/kixhKQ/0926171302.jpg[/img][/url]


[url=https://ibb.co/jQCtR5][img]https://preview.ibb.co/mynSm5/0926171303a.jpg[/img][/url]
 
The usual way for water to get in there is around the hatches. They don't always seal tight.

Also where hatches screw to the deck or any cored structures--any area where the screws are inserted into the core; The core needs to be removed, fiberglass under cut, filled with epoxy. Then screws and bedding compound (should be Boat Life Life Seal for plastics to fiberglass.)

I would take a pump with a tube on it, and get the water out--and then use a sponge (may need to use it on a "grabber") to get the last bit.
 
Thank you, I'll pull a couple of screws from the sole and see if they used any sealant under them.

The hatches above the bilge are not sealed, but water that flows in there from the cockpit stays in the bilge and is not supposed to flow into the fuel tank area.
 
On my CD-25 there is a opening between the fuel tank area and the bilge area. Water freely runs between the two areas. Not sure if that's good or bad. I've put in a hatch in the cockpit sole to access the fuel sender. (The builder in 2011 put the access hole in the wrong spot.) That also allowed me to better circulate air in the fuel tank area when stored in my shed. Seems like every builder of the 25's has different ideas of how to set things up.

I love our C-Otter but have had to make some basic modifications to get things right.
 
Didn't you just buy this new from Sportcraft? Ryan is a good guy, and will probably fix the issue on warranty. They need to get the feedback to Bellingham so it doesn't happen to anyone else.
 
Is the boat new? Contact your salesman ASAP. That's unacceptable and will have to be fixed. My old 25 had some water in there but it was a 10 year old boat at the time.
 
On my CD-25 there is a opening between the fuel tank area and the bilge area. Water freely runs between the two areas
Click to expand...
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Ditto. I try to drain it at the ramp when I pull the boat. At home, I leave the cockpit hatches and battery hatches open so it's not all sealed and air can circulate. Not ideal, but whatcha gonna do...
 
Slipknot":20b3wglo said:
Thank you, I'll pull a couple of screws from the sole and see if they used any sealant under them.

The hatches above the bilge are not sealed, but water that flows in there from the cockpit stays in the bilge and is not supposed to flow into the fuel tank area.
Click to expand...

The hatches "above the bilge" should be sealed. The deck there is cored--OK now it is maybe foam? (I don't know if foam or balsa--it does not make any difference. Any screws into cored structure should be put into epoxy plugs). One can say "no rot with foam"--true, but especially in areas where there is freeze /thaw cycles there will eventually be delimitation and breakdown. Also as foam absorbs water, there will be unwanted weight in the boat.

None of the flush cockpit hatches are water tight. You can get them--for example Armstrong--and are considerably more expensive. All things are made to some price point...and boats are certainly no exception.

Again--there are different constructions on different years of the boats. Many of them have like a "grid" glassed into the bottom of the hull--(bilge), and I have seen a number where the area shown in these photos are not connected to the area around the fuel tank (which should not have water in it). Many boats have the main bilge pump, just aft of the fuel tank. Some of these have a round access port (which could be watertight), and some have hatches. The second hatch over the tank, should be over the fuel tank level sender--some are not over that sender.

It is also possible that the fuel fills or tank vents are not properly sealed (in fact a pretty good bet they are not 100% sealed). Usually they are small enough and water does not stand around their sides, so they rarely leak. But it is a possibility.
 
As mentioned by Avidmagnum12/Tom Schulke above, there's a direct connection/hole between the tank compartment and the rear bilge. Remember, Journey On is 12 years old, so the boat can survive, it's just built that way.

Here's a picture of the cockpit floor removed and looking at the tank:

tank_1.sized.jpg

It's not the clearest, but here's a few salient points. First, there's a direct connection between the center of the bilge and the tank compartment. Seek and ye shall find. It's built that way. Next, there's little or no connection (don't remember which) between the bilge and tank compartment at each internal skeg depressions, both port and starboard. I drilled new holes so the water can drain to the bilge even if the boat isn't level. When the boat is on the trailer and the front is tilted up, I drain and mop the bilge. More photos in Journey On Tank Inspection. Included is a shot of the floor with the steps removed, though they're not the main cause. Mopping out at the steps doesn't get rid of the water, because most of it is in the rear.

Water gets in when you wash your boat. A LOT of water drains down through the cockpit locker. Any time the cockpit floor is wet, more water drains in. So the first solution is to seal those cockpit lockers. Good luck, it can be done; I haven't. Also, put new o-ring seals in the removable hatches. I installed a hatch in the floor so I can be sure that the tank compartment is dry.

Boris
 
It seems that somewhere along the way, it may have been lost that in this case, the water is coming into the side parts of the grid (which surrounds the fuel tank. As I understood the PO, the water is only on the sides--by the access hatches to the fuel lines, forward, on port and Starboard side, under the steps.
 
All is well, I pumped out a couple of gallons of water (through the access hole in the steps) and found a small area at the base of one of the steps where the caulking had dried and cracked.

I'm going to reseal the steps and all the screws that hold down the sole.

What type of caulking does C-Dory use and what type should I look for?
 
"First, there's a direct connection between the center of the bilge and the tank compartment."

Journey On - I believe you, but on my boat I cannot see any passage between the fuel tank area and the bilge. It is sealed off with a plate and caulked, and I had a completely dry bilge when the water was still in the tank area.

I did let Sportcraft know, and I don't think I'll have any more issues once I fix the caulking.
 
On my 2005 CD25 Cruiser, I too have a connection btwn the aft bilge (the only thing I consider a bilge) and the area in which the fuel tank lives under the cockpit floor. I drain/pump out the bilge all the time, but wetness still remains in the tank area.

I use to get water on the cabin sole. That turned out to be leaks in the caulking around the steps. Once re-caulked, water on the cabin sole disappeared.
 
smckean (Tosca)":21c3ngjo said:
On my 2005 CD25 Cruiser, I too have a connection btwn the aft bilge (the only thing I consider a bilge) and the area in which the fuel tank lives under the cockpit floor. I drain/pump out the bilge all the time, but wetness still remains in the tank area.

I use to get water on the cabin sole. That turned out to be leaks in the caulking around the steps. Once re-caulked, water on the cabin sole disappeared.
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I think the OP is talking about the hatch on the steps. And if he is then your 2005 should be like my old boat. That area where the fuel supply lines are and are separate from the tank area.

I inspected both areas thoroughly because I had water in those areas under the steps.
 
Slipknot,

I certainly can't speak to any changes in the C-Dory 25 construction over the past 23 tears. Sealing the tank off from the bilge seems a likely one.

I also don't know if your boat is on a trailer or in the water. If it's on a trailer, the quick way is to raise the bow and see if any water comes back to the bilge, through the caulking.

I also hope they've changed the cockpit floor hatches so that they don't leak water.

I hope your caulking will fix the problem and Good Luck.

Boris
 
It appears that many of the boats did not have these "steps" tabbed in with fiberglass, but rather sat in with some bedding compound/adhesive. I probably would us 3M 4000. It stays white and does not yellow as 4200 and 5200 have been known to do. It has adhesive powers between 4200 and 5200 in the quick cure versions.:

3M provides product spec sheets for each of their products: /This is for quick cure 4000. 424 PSI overlap shear strength.

This is for quick cure 4200
244 PSI overlap shear strength.

5200 is 519 PSI overlap shear strength.

The way the steps are made, I might be tempted to actually glass them in. That would be to use a couple of layers of tape and mat, then fair and gel coat. A fair amount of work--and semi permeant. (This tape can always be cut if you have to remove the fuel tank. Another way to do it, would be to make a "dam" or "lip" of mat and polyester resin--then fair with high density filler and gel coat, which you could set the "step" into, using a bedding compound--and could use one with even less shear strength--and not worry about it leaking. This would be my choice if I owned the boat.

Some of the earlier boats did not have the lip, which yours is screwed into (by the way, the screws can leak also), so be sure and caulk around the screw as you put it back. Much of the weight of people stepping into the boat is taken on an very thin edge with just sealant holding it in place. Not the best of designs.

To me it is very interesting how the various builders of the C Dory have had different "solutions" for structure and appendages.

When you re-bed the steps--you want to remove all of what ever the factory used for "caulking"--then degrease it very well--There are degreasing solvents. Lacquer thinner and Acetone both are good cleaners, but they tend to soften the gel coat. They also "flash" off very quickly (volatile). Denatured alcohol is at times better. There are also water based "degreasing/de-waxing" agents. I recently had to do some polyurethane paint spray painting on my RV, and the professional store recommended a water based de-waxing solvent which worked very well. .
 
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