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Carbon monoxide detectors
- Thread starter BrentB
- Start date
Alyssa Jean
New member
I don't know about multiple, but in my opinion any powerboat with an enclosed cabin should be required to have at least one.
I had several on mine. One was factory installed and one was purchased. They aren't cheap, but spend the money on a marine CO monitor and not a household one. The extra money is worth the peace of mind knowing it was designed to work in a more humid, boating environment.
Here is a link to the USCG's view of carbon monoxide:
http://uscgboating.org/safety/fedreqs/saf_carbon.htm
Here is what David Pascoe has to say (older article from 1999):
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/carbon_monoxide_alert.htm
There is a lot more on the web.
Here is a link to the USCG's view of carbon monoxide:
http://uscgboating.org/safety/fedreqs/saf_carbon.htm
Here is what David Pascoe has to say (older article from 1999):
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/carbon_monoxide_alert.htm
There is a lot more on the web.
Time to get on my Carbon monoxide soap box. The reason is that as a physician I have treated (and pronounced dead on a couple of occasions) victums of CO poisoning--several of these on boats.
To compound the issues, the UL labs dumbed down the CO detectors because of too many "false alarms" runs by paramedics. " The UL standard 2034 (1998 revision) has stricter requirements that the detector/alarm must meet before it can sound. As a result, the possibility of nuisance alarms is decreased." Sounds good?--wrong, it means that you have a higher level before the alarm sounds.
Carbon Monoxide binds into the hemoglobin in the red blood cells which carry oxygen. The Carbon Monoxide binds faster and 240 x more strongly than oxygen, deprieving the tissue of the body of oxygen. carbon Monoxide poisoning is insidious. It is cummulative. That is a chronic exposure to a low level will eventually cause toxicity as the blood CO level rises.
There is a finate limit on the longivity of the CO detective mechanism. They are not good for longer than 5 years and some manufactuers suggest replacement at 2 years. Heat degrades the sensors--and if you leave the sensor in a hot boat or car--replace the unit at 2 years.
I personally like a battery operated unit which has a digital read out: The Kidde Nighthawk 900-0089. (this is 9 volt; there is also a 3 AA battery version) @ $40. If you want the best of the consumer grade product (fire fighters, house inspectors and heater technicians etc use expensive professional grade instruments) consider the more expensive CO Experts 1070. @ $129
The Nighthawk is "blind" to concentrations less than 30 parts per million. The CO Experts starts to read at 5 parts per million, and it gives a much better commulative estimate of exposure.
http://www.aeromedix.com/product-exec/p ... Model_1070
Below is taken from the CO Experts site:
CO Concentration
(parts per million) Symptoms
35 No obvious symptoms after 8 hours of exposure.
200 Mild headache after 2 to 3 hours.
400 Headache and nausea after 1 to 2 hours.
800 Headache, nausea and dizziness after 45 minutes; collapse after 2 hours.
1000 Unconsciousness after 1 hour.
1600 Unconsciousness after 30 minutes.
I suggest installing the detector near where your head will be when you sleep. Also the CO experts is not "approved" for boats, because of the risk of lower life span in higher humidity areas. If it is kept in the cabin, this is not a major concern.
To compound the issues, the UL labs dumbed down the CO detectors because of too many "false alarms" runs by paramedics. " The UL standard 2034 (1998 revision) has stricter requirements that the detector/alarm must meet before it can sound. As a result, the possibility of nuisance alarms is decreased." Sounds good?--wrong, it means that you have a higher level before the alarm sounds.
Carbon Monoxide binds into the hemoglobin in the red blood cells which carry oxygen. The Carbon Monoxide binds faster and 240 x more strongly than oxygen, deprieving the tissue of the body of oxygen. carbon Monoxide poisoning is insidious. It is cummulative. That is a chronic exposure to a low level will eventually cause toxicity as the blood CO level rises.
There is a finate limit on the longivity of the CO detective mechanism. They are not good for longer than 5 years and some manufactuers suggest replacement at 2 years. Heat degrades the sensors--and if you leave the sensor in a hot boat or car--replace the unit at 2 years.
I personally like a battery operated unit which has a digital read out: The Kidde Nighthawk 900-0089. (this is 9 volt; there is also a 3 AA battery version) @ $40. If you want the best of the consumer grade product (fire fighters, house inspectors and heater technicians etc use expensive professional grade instruments) consider the more expensive CO Experts 1070. @ $129
The Nighthawk is "blind" to concentrations less than 30 parts per million. The CO Experts starts to read at 5 parts per million, and it gives a much better commulative estimate of exposure.
http://www.aeromedix.com/product-exec/p ... Model_1070
Below is taken from the CO Experts site:
CO Concentration
(parts per million) Symptoms
35 No obvious symptoms after 8 hours of exposure.
200 Mild headache after 2 to 3 hours.
400 Headache and nausea after 1 to 2 hours.
800 Headache, nausea and dizziness after 45 minutes; collapse after 2 hours.
1000 Unconsciousness after 1 hour.
1600 Unconsciousness after 30 minutes.
I suggest installing the detector near where your head will be when you sleep. Also the CO experts is not "approved" for boats, because of the risk of lower life span in higher humidity areas. If it is kept in the cabin, this is not a major concern.
thataway":35c6dwe8 said:I personally like a battery operated unit which has a digital read out: The Kidde Nighthawk 900-0089. (this is 9 volt; there is also a 3 AA battery version) @ $40. If you want the best of the consumer grade product (fire fighters, house inspectors and heater technicians etc use expensive professional grade instruments) consider the more expensive CO Experts 1070. @ $129
I might add that spending extra for "marine grade" detectors is a waste for, essentially, trailer boats and even marina boats. Per usual "marine" pricing, a buyer is going to stretch the lifetime of this critical device. Better to buy a $40 detector every two years. How many hours have you put on your C-Dory in the last two years? Add the "overnights" and most of our boats have less than a month actually in the water. A good home detector will "sail" (no pun intended) through that period unharmed IMHO.
Don
I am a "lurker"--still boat shopping for a bigger boat than my 16 footer--and I've never felt too qualified to respond to a subject but I feel like I can add something to this. I am an environmental chemist with experience in human health risk assessment. The physician of course was 100% correct--carbon monoxide (CO) ties up the blood's hemoglobin so it is not available to carry oxygen to cells and thus one dies just as one might at the summit of Mt. Everest.blackfish":17j41txm said:would a wallace stove give off Carbon monoxide?
Carbon monoxide is the result of "incomplete combustion." If there is "complete combustion" then the result is carbon dioxide (CO2). That is, each carbon atom has as much oxygen as it can combine with. So, any combustion will result in nothing but carbon dioxide if there is enough oxygen in the air. Flames, such as with stoves, do not automatically produce carbon monoxide. However, if there isn't enough oxygen then (and the actual mechanics are not clear the last I read) some of the carbon dioxide will "lose" one of its oxygen atoms and become carbon monoxide (CO2 + C = 2CO). This is why it is important to have adequate ventilation--NOT to ventilate carbon monoxide, you should never have any to vent but rather to keep the O2 level high enough to keep CO from forming. It is also important to keep the CO2 from building up as it will displace oxygen and make the risk of forming CO greater as well as have the altitude effect by displacing oxygen and reducing available oxygen to the body.
So, don't panic about every stove producing CO. But always be sure there is enough "fresh air" to run the stove with complete combustion and have a warning device as a backup, but don't rely on it.
Oly wannabe
Just to clear up Oly's confusion--the Wallas stove, is a drip pot burner diesel/kerosene stove, which has a sealed combustion chamber, with a forced draft. The exhaust is dissipated outside of the boat thru the thru hull fitting in the cabin side (apparently some early boats had an exhaust thru the aft bulkhead--not a good idea). One needs to always have a window cracked to keep the oxygen level up--there is no oxygen sensor on the Wallas, to shut it down if Oxygen is depleated in the atmosphere.
Most stoves do produce carbon monoxide--because of incomplete combustion--it is the nature of the process with this type of stove. There are some engines which are low CO producers and some stoves which are specifically made as low CO production items. This is why a stove with an open flame and a ceramic flower pot should never be used as a heater. There are some catalytic heaters--some with LP gas, and there used to be some with "white" or unleaded gas--stove fuel type--which were catalytic heaters--and these have low CO output because of the catalyst--still a danger of oxygen depleation--and some of these do have Oxygen sensors. I am also very skeptical of operating these heaters in an enclosed space when sleeping or a risk of falling asleep--even with a cracked window.
High levels of carbon dioxide are an entirely different matter. As a matter of normal metabolism, human exhaled breath contains 4% carbon dioxide, where as ambient air normally contains 0.04% carbondioxide. Ambient levels of carbon dioxide which are in the 0.5% level, are upper limits according to OSHA standards as Threshold Limit Values-Time Weighted Average. This is 5000 ppm--way beyond the toxic levels of carbon monoxide. Toxicity begins at levels at 1.5% to 5%--and 10% becomes extremely toxic. The lower levels just cause an increase in breathing rate, as a body mechanism to lower the blood level of carbon dioxide--Carbon dioxide is a critical factor in the human acid base balance and the human sensors are extemely sensitative--no monitering necessary... Basically I would not sweat the Carbon Dioxide level in our C Dories--the enclosed space and many people aboard, could bring the levels up some--but not to toxic levels.
As for generators and camper backs--yes, you can run the generator, with the back closed and the generator outside the camper back--and exhaust pointed down wind.
Most stoves do produce carbon monoxide--because of incomplete combustion--it is the nature of the process with this type of stove. There are some engines which are low CO producers and some stoves which are specifically made as low CO production items. This is why a stove with an open flame and a ceramic flower pot should never be used as a heater. There are some catalytic heaters--some with LP gas, and there used to be some with "white" or unleaded gas--stove fuel type--which were catalytic heaters--and these have low CO output because of the catalyst--still a danger of oxygen depleation--and some of these do have Oxygen sensors. I am also very skeptical of operating these heaters in an enclosed space when sleeping or a risk of falling asleep--even with a cracked window.
High levels of carbon dioxide are an entirely different matter. As a matter of normal metabolism, human exhaled breath contains 4% carbon dioxide, where as ambient air normally contains 0.04% carbondioxide. Ambient levels of carbon dioxide which are in the 0.5% level, are upper limits according to OSHA standards as Threshold Limit Values-Time Weighted Average. This is 5000 ppm--way beyond the toxic levels of carbon monoxide. Toxicity begins at levels at 1.5% to 5%--and 10% becomes extremely toxic. The lower levels just cause an increase in breathing rate, as a body mechanism to lower the blood level of carbon dioxide--Carbon dioxide is a critical factor in the human acid base balance and the human sensors are extemely sensitative--no monitering necessary... Basically I would not sweat the Carbon Dioxide level in our C Dories--the enclosed space and many people aboard, could bring the levels up some--but not to toxic levels.
As for generators and camper backs--yes, you can run the generator, with the back closed and the generator outside the camper back--and exhaust pointed down wind.
I'm not sure what was the "confusion" except my attempt to put chemistry into a few words. Whatever. I didn't say no stove produces CO but rather to make the point that it is not a flame to fear, in a stove or campfire or.....but rather inadequate oxygen supply and that is why ventilation is crucial--to ventilate oxygen into the cabin, not to ventilate CO out of the cabin. To say stoves produce CO is like saying not to ingest any sea water because sea water has mercury and arsenic in it. True, but "the dose makes the poison" and the salt will be the one to first kill you. And I totally agree with the Wallas concept; I have "outside" air for my home fireplace but mainly for efficiency. Built in ventilation such as with the Wallas is an excellent way to ensure adequate oxygen for the combustion. However, if the confined nature of a stove/heater makes CO more likely and dependent on both the air supply and venting systems to work as designed, then caution is still advised and it is not maintenance free.
Re carbon dioxide: I didn't mean to say the CO2 level would build up to a lethal level in a boat, the CO level would kill first; that is for certain and I doubt any boat is tight enough for the CO2 to build up to such a level. But, you remember those days at the office when it wasn't just our boss that made us want to go to sleep in a staff meeting (this is for the retired among us)? A group of people in a poorly ventilated small room will raise the CO2 level by a couple hundred ppm (100 ppm is 0.01%) and it won't kill but "decision making" is hampered and we want to nod off. Not a good scenario while driving a boat or car.
I'm sure we can all agree that keeping any source of bad gases out of the cabin is a good idea, maintenance is important, and to have something more attuned to toxic gases to warn us. Here is proof:
http://www.boattest.com/
Then click on "This Week's Newsletter"
and then click on "Air Force General Deactivates Alarm and Dies of CO Poisoning"
While there, also click on: "Canadians Flock To New Low-Cost Cruising Boat"
May your anchor always hold, even if you never completely trust it.
Oly
Re carbon dioxide: I didn't mean to say the CO2 level would build up to a lethal level in a boat, the CO level would kill first; that is for certain and I doubt any boat is tight enough for the CO2 to build up to such a level. But, you remember those days at the office when it wasn't just our boss that made us want to go to sleep in a staff meeting (this is for the retired among us)? A group of people in a poorly ventilated small room will raise the CO2 level by a couple hundred ppm (100 ppm is 0.01%) and it won't kill but "decision making" is hampered and we want to nod off. Not a good scenario while driving a boat or car.
I'm sure we can all agree that keeping any source of bad gases out of the cabin is a good idea, maintenance is important, and to have something more attuned to toxic gases to warn us. Here is proof:
http://www.boattest.com/
Then click on "This Week's Newsletter"
and then click on "Air Force General Deactivates Alarm and Dies of CO Poisoning"
While there, also click on: "Canadians Flock To New Low-Cost Cruising Boat"
May your anchor always hold, even if you never completely trust it.
Oly
The article cited involved a generator run in a boat house, with a faulty (cracked manufold) on the genset--and a ambient CO level of 530PPM. There was a battery missing on the detector--a household unit by kiddie--nothing wrong with a "non marine" unit--that he had probably removed the battery--and the reason is unknown. This is not an unusual scenerio for a death. Much more common are deaths from generators during hurricanes or other power outages where the generator is placed in the garage to protect it from the weather. There are cases where even with the garage door open occupants of the house sucumbed to CO. The other common scenerios involve various types of heaters--and that is more akin to what we are discussing here. That is the pot on an open flame stove, or a charcoal burning heater, such has a barbeque used to heat an enclosed space. I have seen several deaths from that mechanism.
With the external exhaust heater, the CO detector is still essential. It is possiable that in enclosed spaces, certain winds , the wrong window open that CO could be blown back into the boat.
It is highly unlikely that carbon dioxide would be a factor in such a death and clinically we have never see this.
Many people think that a diesel engine is "safe" that is not true. A diesel engine will put out less, any where from 1/10 to half of what a gas engine will put out. We were all in a harbor with trawlers and we heard an alarm. One of the boaters had left his generator running because the dog was locked in the cabin and the exhaust hose had either melted or come loose. The engine room, and boat were filled with exhaust. I was only inside of the boat for a few minutes before I developed angina (my own builtin CO detector!)--because of the rapid accumulation of CO and displacement of oxygen in the circulation. Fortunately the dog was smart enough to put its head out a window and survived. The owner had to be pulled out of the engine room as he sustained CO poisoning in just a few mintues and eventually we got the generator stopped.
There have also been a number of CO poisonings and deaths at Lake Powell from generator exhausts' which went under the swim step or transom and where the exhaust got back into the boat. These have all been corrected. Another common cause of CO poisoning is "Teak Surfing" where a person hangs onto the swim step as the boat runs. There is enough CO accumulation in the turbulant air behind the transom to render a person unconscious in farily rapid order and death may be by drowning. Even swimming behind a boat with exhaust which does not clear the area well is risky.
With the external exhaust heater, the CO detector is still essential. It is possiable that in enclosed spaces, certain winds , the wrong window open that CO could be blown back into the boat.
It is highly unlikely that carbon dioxide would be a factor in such a death and clinically we have never see this.
Many people think that a diesel engine is "safe" that is not true. A diesel engine will put out less, any where from 1/10 to half of what a gas engine will put out. We were all in a harbor with trawlers and we heard an alarm. One of the boaters had left his generator running because the dog was locked in the cabin and the exhaust hose had either melted or come loose. The engine room, and boat were filled with exhaust. I was only inside of the boat for a few minutes before I developed angina (my own builtin CO detector!)--because of the rapid accumulation of CO and displacement of oxygen in the circulation. Fortunately the dog was smart enough to put its head out a window and survived. The owner had to be pulled out of the engine room as he sustained CO poisoning in just a few mintues and eventually we got the generator stopped.
There have also been a number of CO poisonings and deaths at Lake Powell from generator exhausts' which went under the swim step or transom and where the exhaust got back into the boat. These have all been corrected. Another common cause of CO poisoning is "Teak Surfing" where a person hangs onto the swim step as the boat runs. There is enough CO accumulation in the turbulant air behind the transom to render a person unconscious in farily rapid order and death may be by drowning. Even swimming behind a boat with exhaust which does not clear the area well is risky.
Hi Folks,
A couple of points to add.
You can get carbon monoxide poisoning by running your boot with the wind but a little slower. The carbon monoxide will come over the stern.
You can also draw carbon monoxide through your cabin door because of having the side windows open without the forward hatch or window open. It is called the venture effect. When on the Erie Canal, I noticed that Bill and El run their boat with the cabin door shut. I believe to keep out the carbon monoxide.
I use an off-the -shelf battery operated (Batteries are loaded on the front of the detector) detector and place it under my wheel.
Fred
A couple of points to add.
You can get carbon monoxide poisoning by running your boot with the wind but a little slower. The carbon monoxide will come over the stern.
You can also draw carbon monoxide through your cabin door because of having the side windows open without the forward hatch or window open. It is called the venture effect. When on the Erie Canal, I noticed that Bill and El run their boat with the cabin door shut. I believe to keep out the carbon monoxide.
I use an off-the -shelf battery operated (Batteries are loaded on the front of the detector) detector and place it under my wheel.
Fred
Great safety subject ! I was making sure the "Das Boot" or ["Cruise ship # 4 ]was in good working order the other day at the marina and I opened the door and fired up the Honda Gen in the cockpit . The Honda 90 was running as well . The Xintex CO detector went off pretty quickly and didn't stop till I shut em down and got the cabin air clear . I was good to know it worked ,and I will be adding a second one due to the nature of my boat's uses . They are a bargain at any price .
Marc
Marc
Another seed to plant-
Two weeks ago when I was at the marina on an end work-rack my alarm went off. I was thinking it must be time to replace it due to age.
It turns out the forklift was stopped beside me for abt 5 minutes with the propane exhaust entering into the cabin's open side window. The lift had a boat mounted and awaited a trailer to load it on. I never expected this to happen, especially with calm to light air movement. I could smell the exhaust, but that in itself was not unusual. The alarm continued to go off till well after the lift left my area.
It took abt 4 minutes to clear the alarm after I opened every window and door. I did feel the affects with a slight headache, but it did clear up after awhile. Needless to say caution was immediately followed in everything I did that afternoon.
No harm and no "foul", but a lesson learned - keep aware of what is around you, even when on a work-rack. I always track the OB's running with their "ears" on being flushed, but now I have added a new dimension.
Art
Two weeks ago when I was at the marina on an end work-rack my alarm went off. I was thinking it must be time to replace it due to age.
It turns out the forklift was stopped beside me for abt 5 minutes with the propane exhaust entering into the cabin's open side window. The lift had a boat mounted and awaited a trailer to load it on. I never expected this to happen, especially with calm to light air movement. I could smell the exhaust, but that in itself was not unusual. The alarm continued to go off till well after the lift left my area.
It took abt 4 minutes to clear the alarm after I opened every window and door. I did feel the affects with a slight headache, but it did clear up after awhile. Needless to say caution was immediately followed in everything I did that afternoon.
No harm and no "foul", but a lesson learned - keep aware of what is around you, even when on a work-rack. I always track the OB's running with their "ears" on being flushed, but now I have added a new dimension.
Art
Alyssa Jean
New member
I just replaced my 5 y/o CO detector on the boat. I has gone off a few times when underway due to the venturi effect. Nice to know that it works.
Robert H. Wilkinson
New member
Over the years a lot of boaters have fallen overboard while urinating over the stern of a slow moving boat. Sometimes without the helmsmans knowledge. Sometimes it was thought they were drunk. It is now believed they may have secumed to carbon monoxide poisoning - becoming dizzy and falling.
Caution must be used when operating at slow speeds with canvass up forward or a pilot house with stern open.
Regards, Rob
Caution must be used when operating at slow speeds with canvass up forward or a pilot house with stern open.
Regards, Rob
Good call, and you saved your life!
I went back and re-read the entire threat--certainly worth taking the time to do so.
Although propane engines are used in warehouses, they sill produce CO. In your case, it just happened to be at the right place, and right atmospheric conditions to get in your cabin and set off the alarm. Generally propane engines produce 1/10 of the amount of CO as a gasoline engine.
An interesting quote I found:
"The exhaust from a propane powered forklift is not going to hurt you! It is carbon dioxide and water vapour for the most part. When we convert those engines to propane from gasoline we actually set them up to run slightly rich so there is a bit of unburnt hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide, but not very much. We do this because a lean-burning propane engine will fry the valves very quickly!
If you ran a forklift in a very confined area like a two car garage for 8 hours a day you would probably want to have some mechanical ventilation. But in a factory or unit building, it's perfectly safe as long as the equipment is serviced regularly. The service technician should be using a 3-gas analyzer when they do tune ups to set the air fuel mixture correctly.
EDIT: I'm not saying propane forklifts are "zero emissions". They're not. But compared to gasoline or diesel powered units, they might as well be.
Perhaps you could explain to me why propane powered forklifts are FDA and EPA approved for use in food processing plant applications? Gasoline or diesel are not! Must be some reason!"
Key word there is the "Tuned up". Your boat yard may want to know about your episode, and prevent a serious problem or law suit down the line!
Also, remember that there is a finite life span of CO detectors. They do need to be replaced on a regular basis. Also the "household" units (and marine/RV) are dumbed down--not as sensitive as they should be to prevent "false alarms"...
I went back and re-read the entire threat--certainly worth taking the time to do so.
Although propane engines are used in warehouses, they sill produce CO. In your case, it just happened to be at the right place, and right atmospheric conditions to get in your cabin and set off the alarm. Generally propane engines produce 1/10 of the amount of CO as a gasoline engine.
An interesting quote I found:
"The exhaust from a propane powered forklift is not going to hurt you! It is carbon dioxide and water vapour for the most part. When we convert those engines to propane from gasoline we actually set them up to run slightly rich so there is a bit of unburnt hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide, but not very much. We do this because a lean-burning propane engine will fry the valves very quickly!
If you ran a forklift in a very confined area like a two car garage for 8 hours a day you would probably want to have some mechanical ventilation. But in a factory or unit building, it's perfectly safe as long as the equipment is serviced regularly. The service technician should be using a 3-gas analyzer when they do tune ups to set the air fuel mixture correctly.
EDIT: I'm not saying propane forklifts are "zero emissions". They're not. But compared to gasoline or diesel powered units, they might as well be.
Perhaps you could explain to me why propane powered forklifts are FDA and EPA approved for use in food processing plant applications? Gasoline or diesel are not! Must be some reason!"
Key word there is the "Tuned up". Your boat yard may want to know about your episode, and prevent a serious problem or law suit down the line!
Also, remember that there is a finite life span of CO detectors. They do need to be replaced on a regular basis. Also the "household" units (and marine/RV) are dumbed down--not as sensitive as they should be to prevent "false alarms"...
Pardon me for the duplication, but there are now two active threads on this topic. (Mods, feel free to delete one if the duplication is a problem.)
*******
Inspired by this thread (and by the fact that I don't currently have any CO detector(s), I decided to check on the models Thataway mentioned in the early days of the thread. I found two Kiddes on Amazon.
One is the Kidde KN-COPP-B-LP 900-0230 Nighthawk Carbon Monoxide Alarm, Battery Operated with Digital Display. It's $29.97, has digital display with backlight, and runs on batteries (I didn't comparison shop, as I'm just about to place an Amazon order for other things)
(Sorry, had to remove link and photo in order to get this to post - not sure why)
There is also a second one on Amazon, for slightly less, but I don't find it on Kidde's product page, so maybe it's an older model - or else I just didn't find it there. It looks less compact too, although I can't tell for sure. It is also battery powered, with digital display and backlight.
(Had to remove link but also on Amazon as Kidde KN-COPP-LPM)
I also looked up the CO Experts detector that was mentioned (the 1070, I think). From what I can tell that model has been superseded by the CO Experts 2014. It looks like it runs $189 (or a bit more if you buy directly from CO Experts). This runs on an internal, irreplaceable LI battery that is supposed to last the life of the unit (5-7 years, IIRC).
(Had to remove link and photo but looks slightly smaller than Kidde model; can be found by Googling)
On the one hand, ow, expensive. Of course then you think "But surely my life is worth $189!" If I bought the Kidde I would get two (one for camper, one for boat); if I went for the CO Experts I guess I would put it on my list of things to move between the two, so that at least I would need one. I'm new to this, and although I appreciate good equipment, I'm not sure which way to go...?
Sunbeam
*******
Inspired by this thread (and by the fact that I don't currently have any CO detector(s), I decided to check on the models Thataway mentioned in the early days of the thread. I found two Kiddes on Amazon.
One is the Kidde KN-COPP-B-LP 900-0230 Nighthawk Carbon Monoxide Alarm, Battery Operated with Digital Display. It's $29.97, has digital display with backlight, and runs on batteries (I didn't comparison shop, as I'm just about to place an Amazon order for other things)
(Sorry, had to remove link and photo in order to get this to post - not sure why)
There is also a second one on Amazon, for slightly less, but I don't find it on Kidde's product page, so maybe it's an older model - or else I just didn't find it there. It looks less compact too, although I can't tell for sure. It is also battery powered, with digital display and backlight.
(Had to remove link but also on Amazon as Kidde KN-COPP-LPM)
I also looked up the CO Experts detector that was mentioned (the 1070, I think). From what I can tell that model has been superseded by the CO Experts 2014. It looks like it runs $189 (or a bit more if you buy directly from CO Experts). This runs on an internal, irreplaceable LI battery that is supposed to last the life of the unit (5-7 years, IIRC).
(Had to remove link and photo but looks slightly smaller than Kidde model; can be found by Googling)
On the one hand, ow, expensive. Of course then you think "But surely my life is worth $189!" If I bought the Kidde I would get two (one for camper, one for boat); if I went for the CO Experts I guess I would put it on my list of things to move between the two, so that at least I would need one. I'm new to this, and although I appreciate good equipment, I'm not sure which way to go...?
Sunbeam