Cape Cruiser Boats

flagold":6vmm4n3l said:
This original thread was titled "I saw the coolest thing" by some hack making one post and then disappearing simply to get this thing under our nose and talking (hopefully endlessly) about it.
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Yup, and in the interest of yet more "full disclosure", I'm responsible for changing the thread title.

egnsto (the originator of this thread) has been given ample opportunity to defend what appears to be a disingenous post. We're not big on deleting things around here, but I also wasn't thrilled with perpetuating things via a title designed to suck folks in. I renamed the thread to better reflect the topic being discussed.

Perhaps a moment of weakness on my part, but it just bugged me.
 
I thought you were supposed to be nice on this site? You don't build a 15 year old business without integrity or service. You don't become a "best dealer" without these qualities either. In all fairness, you don't buy a boat from a dealer 1200 miles away when you have several "local dealers" in your area if they don't have the above. We have and will continue to service our C-Dory customers. There are exceptions sometimes, I'm sure Don told you why you needed to contact Jeff at the factory for your problems. I'm surprised that a similar product that most know nothing about other than missinformation can cause such a big deal. Cape Cruiser is an example of "Capitalism alive and well".
 
That's certainly your perogative, Bill. When I first heard about Cape Cruiser, I contacted them, invited them to participate on the C-DOG site, and started a discussion thread towards that end.

After hearing "the rest of the story" about how things were handled by Cape Cruiser folks, as well as my own very recent experience with Three Rivers Marine, I deleted the whole thread, because things turned out to be very different than they had first appeared.

Live and learn!

I don't think Scot & Jeff and crew have a whole lot to worry about, although having to lose a major dealer certainly has to hurt in the short term. I hated to see that happen, but they'll be the better for it in the long run.

Ken
 
as a retired fireman i can't even begin to hazard a guess as to what is and isn't good business practices but what i do know is that in my case three rivers marine treated me right.

buying my c-dory from 130 miles away in jacksonville florida and then waiting the required six months imagine my joy that the boat my son and i paid over $40000 for wasn't perfect. mike, don, and the mechanic kenny said not to worry and proceeded to get everything in top notch shape. i remember at the time just how much service they had to go through must have cut into a great amount of their profit.

after taking the boat home and forgetting to ask half the questions i should have, kenny the mechanic talked me through them on the phone. with previous dealers i don't think i ever got to talk with a mechanic on the phone.

when i returned for the 100 hour check all minor problems were addressed and kenny spent extra time showing me how to go through the entire check so that i could save myself some money. the next time a bilge pump that i had broke was replaced at their cost.

i will not be taking my boat back to three rivers as it is being relocated to san francisco. time for my son to enjoy it. but if i ever get tired of that long drive and get to thinking about another boast, three rivers i where i am going.

for 10 years, a lifetime in the boat business, i expect mike's passion for c-dory was as high as any dealer. i wish him well.

da-nag

sorry for the long post but my ability to say something is right up there with my business sense.
 
mike shotwell":jvf7k8v9 said:
I thought you were supposed to be nice on this site?
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That's the only rule, and we encourage members to stick to it. However, we're also pretty proud of the fact that we don't delete posts; when issues like this come up, emotions are bound to play a part. Hopefully folks will keep up our great track record of civility here.

mike shotwell":jvf7k8v9 said:
You don't build a 15 year old business without integrity or service.
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I'm not bashing you as a dealer; I just question the wisdom of signing up with Cape Cruiser when the price for doing so is giving up C-Dory.

Just to be clear - we've seen one post from a disastisfied customer. From what I've read, most folks had good things to say about you while you were a C-Dory dealer. In fact, in the couple of conversations I've had with the factory, they've had nothing but praise for you as well. They seemed genuinely upset that you forced their hand in this matter; I got the impression you had an excellent realtionship with them, which made their decision very difficult.

Again, Mike - I wish you the best with your new boat line.
 
I wonder if the Cape Cruiser factory is owned by the Chinese Gov't? Their great at knock off's.

Any-one want to buy a Roll-Ex watch ? Ill sell you one cheap. C-Otter.
 
Hate the Game not the player,

I dont think mike did anything wrong. I too am in a vendor/dealer type industry as well, and you should be able to evaluate and sell other products, even from two competitors. Remember he is a business owner and is coming at this from a different perspective than most owners here. This is his livlihood, and to not offer a product that he could make money on is silly. He is just trying to cover his bases. Let the customer decide which to buy, do not fault him for wanting to offer both. After all he didn't want to drop C dory but to expand his product line with something similar but different. It's not his fault if one outsells the other, he didn't design the cape cruiser, but to ignore it would not be wise either. I appreciate everyone's loyalty to C dory. And I understand people are frustrated with Cape cruiser for the way they posted here and copied the CD design (which I don't agree with). But no one likes ultimatum's and by C dory giving mike one, they are taking themselves down to cape cruiser's level. That is bad business in my mind and I would be a little pissed too if one of my vendors tried to pull something like that on me, better that they try to blow the competition away with a superior product and customer service, than to hold their product over my head. Take the high road. This post has more negative comments than Ive seen on here yet. Very uncharacteristic for this site.

Defiance Sark
 
We should all remember that Ben Toland designed the C-Dorys and sold the manufacturing rights to the old C-Dory company. The old C-Dory company sold the C-Dory designs to the current production company.

Now Ben Toland has designed a new boat with similarities to the old(to him) design.

This is not a 'copy' of a C-Dory! The brains that produced the original C-Dory design (in the early 1980's) have now produced a new boat (with similarities to the old).

Does anyone really want Ben to stop designing?

Just my $.02
 
A comment about-----No Rules, Just be Nice.

To me this means that we can discuss the facts about things without calling anyone names or impugning their intelligence or heritage. We can do this without curse words or raised tempers.

We can state what we think is true or false without worry about being deleted as long as we follow THE RULE!

If you get 'hot under the collar' about a post, write your reply, go away from the computer and have a cool one, come back and read what you have written...... Then decide if your post follows THE RULE and if you really want to post it or hit cancel instead.

Just more of my $.02
 
Mr. Sark -- (Arima S. that is)

Spot on! Been a dealer, and I stocked what I could make money on if I considered the product up to my standards. Don't believe it is a manufacturer's place to dictate product limitations to a dealer, and I'm the first to admit I'm sticking my nose into a thread that I should delete!! I certainly understand the factory's position. No manufacturer needs another thorn in its side!!

Because I've known most of the principals for many years, and have met some of the others recently, I consider all of them persons of high standards. If there is a legal problem with "non-competing" agreements the courts will decide. Certainly not decided here on my favorite site on the web.

If the Cape Cruiser is a "splash" of the C-Dory -- would not surprise me a bit. Done in the boating industry all of the time -- many, many "Boston Whaler" wanna be's out there. And of course the present Cape folks have built C-Dory boats for a bunch of years and would want to take advantage of their previous experience as a basis for their new boat.

Competition for our C-Dory boats? Who knows... the Cape Cruiser won't make me love my 22 CD any less, and I have no idea about the pricing... as to quality, again, no knowledge -- but I spent a day going over Leo's boat, and it was very well done.

Win or lose? The market place will soon tell! They make Fords, Chevs, and Dodges (shucks, some folks even buy Ford trucks :wink:)

My last post on this thread -- just typing when I should be shrimping. And Mr. head nerd has handled the whole thing beautifully.

Dusty
 
Hi C-Brats,
This thread has stirred up plenty of speculation, emotion, negativity, and self-righteous judgements. Having owned a Toland 18-8, I can say there are enough distinct differences from a C-Dory to call it a similar style, but not identical. I admire anyone that has the guts to begin a new boat building enterprise, as it is not for the faint-hearted. Just in Washington alone there have been many boat builders that have not survived. Fiberform, GlasPly, Uniflite, Tollycraft, Bellboy, Sabercraft are history. Reinell, Olympic, and Skagit Orca "stalled" for awhile and ended up being purchased by other companies willing to continue building these boats. The market will ultimately decide who continues to stay in buisness. Based on the fragments of information we have on this thread, I don't think any of us have the whole story. It is too bad this thread started as a plant by a mysterious poster, as this appears to be borderline spam, rather than a staightforward post announcing the formation of new boatbuilding venture. In the long run, I think competition in the boat building business is good for all of us. The 2006 Seattle Boat Show will be a good opportunity to see how the Cape Cruisers comapre with C-Dory.
Time to get off my soap box.
Best regards, Leo.
 
I agree, I have no problems with the design, etc (not knowing about what legal agreements may be involved). BUT! The I just wonder about the honesty of the PEOPLE involved. From the spam post, to the former C-Dory employees that left to work there. What design ideas, etc went over with them? How long was it planned? What were the circumstances with C-Dory when the former employees decided to move on? Still seems fishy (in the wrong way!) to me. I do like some of the different features of the boat - and the "old" features! I'll be watching to see how things unfold, if there is any unfolding to be done.
 
Commercial Advertising Post Deleted By Da Nag

Mike Shotwell / Three Rivers Marine:

I've advised you privately of the rules we have for Dealers. Specifically, we do not allow ANY commercial advertising for non-C-Dory products.

For C-Dory boats ONLY, you are welcome to advertise your new or used stock, but ONLY in the Dealers For Sale forum.

Please respect our Dealer policies.

Bill (Da Nag)
 
Interesting stuff.

Until we understand the franchising rules of C-Dory, the rules (contract) of the buyout, all the licensing stuff regarding trademarks, copyrights, and such, it's really hard to say who is right (or legally protected).

Mark Toland certainly isn't going to post the purchase agreement between he and Scot Reynolds, nor is he going to post the details of the split between himself and any of the other Tolands.

All three are trying to survive in a pretty tough business world, and I hope they all succeed, since they are driving the economic machine that runs this country.

We consumers can only benefit from the fray.

Ken
 
cape cruisers just had a full page ad in the hunting and fishing news. they will also be at the boat show in january. They also claim to be having a 26 fter soon.I can't wait to climb all over these boats and see what they are made of. I have no opine of the politics of the two companys other then to say its wrong to expect someone to only carry one brand of boat.
 
I love the smell opine, cedar is nice also...you wouldn't belive what manufacures mandate to dealers in the truck and equipment world, I imagine it wouldn't be much different in the marine world. ferinstance, the ex local diesel engine dealer said the factory would send him special tooling for engines that aren't even used in this area along with a very large bill for said tooling and he had no choice but to go along if he wanted to keep his franchise.
I'm just a customer and it aint my business who owns what idea, as long as they aren't both bought out by Brunswager or who ever makes Bayliners I'm happy :)
 
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