Cape Cruiser Boats

Must admit I was thinking the same thing Pat voiced above.

It would have been nice if, instead of building a cheapend knockoff, they came out with something new to wow us with. On the other hand, it can be argued the knockoff will postpone the arrival of gold plated sink and fixtures in the C-Dory. The reverse: the knockoff will cheapen the C-Dory if sales slump ala Whaler, where you no longer can get real wood on the boat as it was forced to compete with numerous clones in price.

As for the boat itself: a good looking boat; however, I personally don't want a boat that is longer and weighs less but at the same time has more draft, less cabin space, and less storage no matter what the price is -- since I live and camp (on land) in mine a lot. For others their boat may be the perfect solution.

Good luck with whatever you float (does it have floatation under the V space?) and may it remain upright and floating for a long, long time . . .
 
As for the non-compete clause, the lawyers can work that out. I think the Cape Cruiser is a fine looking boat, the quality will tell in time. The Toland family has a good reputation in the Northwest, and competition does not take anything away from the enjoyment I have in my C-Dory. The C.C is going to appeal to the same type of people as the C.D. Thats what so special about the gatherings, the type of people it attracts.
 
Wow! It is very close in looks and style to a CDory, lines do look a little more modern. I like it, especially the motor well, a major improvement for fishing applications, I also like the molded sink, and that the floor is standard. It's hard to see but the sidewalls in the cockpit look different too. I personally like that they addressed the ride in chop, that coupled with the transom might have swayed me towards a cape cruiser. As I really Liked the Cdory but wanted a couple features it didn't offer. For those fishing minded it might be a great boat. But it is a clone, I mean the differences are fairly subtle and from afar I'm sure most would think it a c dory. I also am in a business where people take other ideas or products and copy them. I am in the print industry, and specialize in high security laser checks. I have had more than one company rip off our ideas and layouts, and have seen blatent copies of our patented security features. I know it ruffles my feathers at times. But does CDory own a patent on the balsa core process? Or Did they just Buy the molds? Regardless I think it will be hard for Cdory to do much about it, and I would think the guys making them would have covered their rear's. Before starting production. I also think that they will get some of the Cdory business, because of the different features, and the wait time on new boats from Cdory. Only time will tell. But if I were buying a new boat again I think I would give them a look.

Sark
 
Without insider information, it seems to me that so far, there's a lot of negative speculation based on business sales/splits that have gone bad.

Playing Devil's Advocate, what would the consensus be if it were an amicable split? It looks, from the makeup of the Toland crowd, that Pat's earlier post quoted below might just be on target, but without insider information we'll never know.
)...These guys were the heart and soul of the "old" four-boats-a-month operation. I can pretty well imagine how they would have preferred it to the new twenty-five-boats-a-month operation...
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Based on the high demand for C-Dorys, it seems to me there's room in the marketplace for a similar, albeit limited production, boat
 
Hey Joe (Sea Wolf) and all of you C-Brats,
I purchased my Toland 18-8 new in the fall of 1997. Mark Toland was still running C-Dory at the time. The story I heard was that Ben Toland Left C-Dory and went on his own to design and produce the Toland 18-8. I was told that 12 of these boats were built, then production stopped. I have no idea if any more were built later or if the tooling is still around. Unless someone "splashes" an existing hull and deck, I don't know that there would be any issue of copyright infringement. There are several builders of boats in the northwest that offer trailerable outboard-powered hardtop cruisers with Alaskan bulkheads. The marketplace will ultimately decide who stays in business and who will go away.
This is an interesting discussion!
Best Regards, Leo.
 
Hey Joe (Sea Wolf) and all of you C-Brats,
I purchased my Toland 18-8 new in the fall of 1997. Mark Toland was still running C-Dory at the time. The story I heard was that Ben Toland Left C-Dory and went on his own to design and produce the Toland 18-8. I was told that 12 of these boats were built, then production stopped. I have no idea if any more were built later or if the tooling is still around. Unless someone "splashes" an existing hull and deck, I don't know that there would be any issue of copyright infringement. There are several builders of boats in the northwest that offer trailerable outboard-powered hardtop cruisers with Alaskan bulkheads. The marketplace will ultimately decide who stays in business and who will go away.
This is an interesting discussion!
Best Regards, Leo.
 
All very interesting. My take on some points:

1. Competition is a good thing. Ford builds a Mustang, so Chevy builds a Corvette, but not another Mustang. (OK, maybe Mustangs & Vetts aren't the best analogy here!) Also, I OWN a 16 ft Challenger.... a Whaler knock off, so what can I say!!?!

2. The "plant" post (noticed by daNerd) bothers me. Where is egnsto now? Why has there been no other discussion from egnsto? It would be a different story to me if a regular contributor made the post, having gone by the old plant and found a new boat being produced.

C. The whole honesty feel. It is one thing to have open competition and choices, (bring it on!) , as it is better for the consumer. This seemingly behind-the-back stuff with (non) loyal workers leaving (with their knowledge) to build a boat that just happens to look and act quite a bit like the niche boat of the place they just left bothers me. I do very much appreciate quality and performance. But honesty and customer service are THE MOST important!

4. How long has this been going on? Did these guys plan this for years, months, days? Not only does if FEEL like a kick in the stomach, but it may much more real if the former C-Dory employee..... I don’t know what they could have done , not done, should have, etc, etc.

E. The features! Some I like, some I don’t. The well may block visibility to the engine. The increase in V deg. is a + - thing. Better for chop, won’t plane at 11 knots, more HP, more fuel, more draft. I like the full glass door, don’t like the smaller aft windows.

Q. Nice boat. If it didn’t LOOK like a C-Dory, I’d like it better. I own a Challenger - and it is NOT a Whaler!

This will all be interesting to watch over time........
 
I'm kinda wondering about those fuel consumption figures... With a longer, wider and deeper hull, there must be more surface area. Yet the boat is only a little lighter. If these consumption figures are even close, then hats off to the design team!

I wouldn't like it if the present owners of C-Dory felt taken -- hate to see anyone getting ripped-off! Maybe it wouldn't appear to be a problem if the Cape Cruiser wasn't so similar. But we don't know what was in their agreement, or how they feel about it now at C-Dory. I just hope that all is well between the parties involved. It will be interesting to see if and how these two manufactures distinguish themselves.

Right now, I wouldn't mind going out on either one of them :smiled

And no, that's not a picture of me in those sunglasses --
I have way more hair than that... at least I do now!
Corwin
 
As I understand it from the folks at Cape Cruiser, Ben Toland left Marben Marine well before the C-Dory operations were sold to the current C-Dory Marine Group, and was thus not involved in any no-compete contracts or clauses.

He left to design and build the 18-8, but hit some hard times when the market went flat. He is currently the designer and toolmaker for the new Twenty-Three, and production should begin in June, to begin filling existing orders.

Their capacity is apparently fairly small, and really shouldn't present much of a threat to the C-Dory operations.

The Twenty-Three is certainly a nice looking boat, but lacks the more severe sheer line of the C-Dorys. It does have a little sharper entry, and a 4º deadrise, as opposed to a 2º deadrise for the 22.

So its roots are obvious, but still not a C-Dory!

Ken
 
Hi C-Brats,
Stopped by the Cape Cruiser factory today to see what was going on. They have their 23' model on display out in front. Had a good visit with Ben Toland while poking around their display model. It is obvious after a few minutes of discussion that he is passionate about good design and building a quality boat. Ben has given a lot of thought to various design features. While the raised cockpit floor is not self-bailing, it is designed to slope to the stern so any water in the cockpit goes to a bilge pump located under the outboard well, rather than through the bulkhead inside the cabin. The transom is designed to add waterline length and additonal buoyancy for twin Honda 50 hp outboards. The familly resembalnce is strong between the C-Dory and Cape Cruiser, but there are enough differences between the two boats to call them cousins rather than identical twins.
Best Regards, Leo
 
The excitement builds....My new Cape Cruiser 23 should arrive here on June 10th. I have the Yamaha F-115 and electronics waiting. I'll post comparisons and photos once she's in service.
 
mike shotwell":2o9eojvf said:
My new Cape Cruiser 23 should arrive here...
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In the interest of "full disclosure"...

Mike - I doubt most folks here know you are a Cape Cruiser dealer (Three Rivers Marine in Crystal River, FL.) Your post didn't mention this, nor is it listed in your signature. You appear to be their only dealer at this time, assuming their web site dealer links are current.

Additionally, I'm guessing even fewer folks are aware you are no longer a C-Dory dealer. I'll leave it to you and/or C-Dory to provide the details, but what I do know, is this is directly a result of your recent decision to carry the Cape Cruiser line.

Again - as I've stated before, I've no doubt these will be fine boats, but I'll personally place more weight on Cape Cruiser reviews and comparisons coming from sources that might be more objective.
 
Bill:

It sure is a good boat, so good it has self correcting features! After several of us commented that we couldn't use a boat that drafted as much as it did, it all of a sudden has a new web-page and drafts an inch less than the CD 22!

Good luck with the Cruiser -- but whether you make it will be on the boat's merits, not on spamming the CD site with "errors" of omission.

Good luck with it.
 
Bill, you are correct that we are no longer a C-Dory dealer, it was no secret. I thought my profile listed me as a dealer. I had planned to drive out to see the new Dory factory long before finding out about the Cape Cruiser. While out there I drove it, liked it, had the opportunity to represent them in the S.E. thinking it would fill a niche. On Monday I went to the Dory factory and met with Scott and Jeff, toured the new facility. When asked what I thought of the Cape Cruiser I told them I liked it and had ordered them. Scott said cancel the order or no more C-Dory. I was shocked to say the least. It's still hard to believe. C-Dory has been a big part of my life over 10 years and will continue to be due to the number of them that we have sold and will continue to service and resale. We still have new inventory and use the 26 Angler to fish. Several friends bought C-Dorys that we store and maintain. Scott and Jeff have a great organization and hopefully our relationship will continue. I can't tell them how to run their business nor they mine. Anyway, great boats, people and owners group. Mike
 
PLAGIARISM and INTEGRITY are two words that come to mind. If I had known that Three Rivers was about to go over to the other side, I definitely would not have bought my boat from them last summer. Now I know why Mike, Don and gang have been poor providers of aftersale service they had promised. Service, by the way that C-Dory via Jeff and Bret was quick to provide as soon as they knew about it.(minor things like a defective bilge pump, cabinet latches and new aft deck hatches that don't leak!) Three Rivers was long on hot air and promises but short on action. I guess they thought that the new east coast dealers would cut into their sales.

In my opinion this situation smells, kinda like when a good friend dumps his wife and family for a new floosy and then tries to push the new one on all his old buddies and family. No integrity. How can Three Rivers be trusted again?

How will this affect the resale of our boats if we have to compare our genuine C-Dory to this new one? Do you really want to help these guys get free marketing via this website with entertaining and informative discussioins and comparisons?

By the way, it seems the bunch that jumped ship at C-Dory factory are the same crew that may have been
responsible for some poor workmanship before they left. They were the ones that built Minnow's boat. I wouldn't touch this Cape Cruiser knock off line (a 26 is coming out shortly) with a ten foot pole. I don't like fiberglass sinks either.


Sorry about the gripe, I'd rather be boating the C-Dory way but just felt I had to say something since lots of potential C-Dory owners check this site and they should know the integrity of people they are dealing with if they go for the C-Dory knock off. Here today, maybe gone tomorrow. Better to stick with the real thing and get a real C-Dory.

All that glitters is not gold

Regards,
Pete in NY
 
I'll go back to my original statement: wouldn't it be great if they had come up with something completely new, innovative, and creative, rather than a knockoff boat . . .

No doubt, they'll sell some to the same folks I've seen posting on this and the other forum over the years saying "I can't afford . . ." Well folks, as someone who has had the personal experience of 12 foot waves coming into the house at 5 am, and escaped via boat (Boston Whaler was floating itself, and the trailer strapped to it WITH THE PLUG OUT -- I simply clambered in, unstrapped the trailer straps, unhooked the bow cable, the trailer sank, put the plug in, fired up the engine and motored to safety while the bilge pump drained the boat), it might be time to ask, "What can I not afford to have on or near the water?" For me, those waves answered that question very early that day -- I want the best money can buy under me in whatever length I can afford, and if I can't afford the best in some given length (the length I can afford might not be the length I wanted) then I just can't afford to boat right now . . .

This original thread was titled "I saw the coolest thing" by some hack making one post and then disappearing simply to get this thing under our nose and talking (hopefully endlessly) about it. Well -- I've come to the conclusion that this boat is not the "coolest thing." I'm in the "coolest thing" a 22 C-Dory (with flotation) -- and a Boston Whaler (with flotation).

But thanks for sharing the knockoff -- at least people have been warned -- and can make up their own minds.
 
Pete,
I agree with everything you said on this issue. When a little restructuring take place in a business there will always be some temporary fallout. I believe in the end that the C-Dory product line, service, and sales will be better. Anyone that has purchased boats knows the importance of the service AFTER the sale, C-Dory has been tops in my book!
Cape Cruisers look to me like a dead ringer for a C-Dory. They have made enough changes to put a different name on them. They may be a good boat, which time will tell. All thou, I have always been a little suspicious of look a-likes.
Jim, Work Release
 
mike shotwell":3dao25hl said:
I thought my profile listed me as a dealer.
Click to expand...

As of yesterday, it does - I've added a rank of Dealer and associated it with the dealers I'm aware of. See the announcement here.

mike shotwell":3dao25hl said:
When asked what I thought of the Cape Cruiser I told them I liked it and had ordered them. Scott said cancel the order or no more C-Dory.
Click to expand...

This doesn't surprise me in the least; quite frankly, I'd have done the same.

Here's my perspective as a fanatical owner. I'll freely admit I'm biased; I have a great relationship with Jeff and Scot at the factory, as do many of our members. I can't imagine ever owning another brand of boat. Call me brainwashed or enlightened; makes no difference, there are tons of folks just like me.

Were I dealer, I can't imagine a better line of boats to carry than C-Dory.

You get a boat with lines that draw people to it; we've all witnessed this, be it at the gas station while filling up, the happy faces looking at us as we drive down the road, or the crowds of folks that gather around us during our outings. People who know nothing about boats see a C-Dory, and want it. Experienced boaters are drawn to the line not only for aesthetical reasons, but for the practical reasons discussed routinely at this and other C-Dory sites.

You get a huge exclusive regional area to sell into, and don't have to fight with other dealers over pricing. I'm not privy to what the margins are, but everybody seems to sell things for about the same price - this would lead me to beleive they are a pretty profitable boat.

You get a satisifed owner base that is second to none. This is perhaps C-Dorys biggest asset; nothing sells things better than happy, fanatical customers. From a marketing perspective, we're the Harley Davidson of boats; it's a manufacturer's and dealers' dream come true.

From conversations I've had with the factory, they usually have 6-8 months worth of orders in the queue. So...given the above, C-Dory can afford to be picky about their dealer base, and should be. It's in their best interests to have dealers 100% committed to the brand - not somebody who will have their only real competitor available for purchase on the showroom floor.

Add to that, the obvious acrimony between C-Dory and Cape Cruiser. Did you really expect they would welcome your news with open arms? Aside from the valid business reasons for cancelling your dealership, I'm sure they felt like they had just been punched in the gut.

But you're right - both you and C-Dory have the right to conduct business as you see fit. Here's to wishing you both the best.
 
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