Cape Cruiser 23 Desirability

A

afglobemaster

New member
Hey Guys, I'd been in the market for a CD-22 Cruiser, but ran across a Cape Cruiser 23 (manufactured by Toland before the lawsuit and C-Dory subsequently getting the molds and producing the Venture 23).

To keep this simple, how desirable is a boat that was essentially produced for only one year (I'm nervous about parts and resale)? How should it compare price-wise to a CD-22 of the same year, hours, and features?

I understand they are different boats and the 23 is larger and heavier. I'm strictly just wanting to get a feel for if I'll be able to sell it again in several years if I have to.


Comments and thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks

Joe
 
afglobemaster":3tga9bxa said:
Hey Guys, I'd been in the market for a CD-22 Cruiser, but ran across a Cape Cruiser 23 (manufactured by Toland before the lawsuit and C-Dory subsequently getting the molds and producing the Venture 23).

To keep this simple, how desirable is a boat that was essentially produced for only one year (I'm nervous about parts and resale)? How should it compare price-wise to a CD-22 of the same year, hours, and features?

I understand they are different boats and the 23 is larger and heavier. I'm strictly just wanting to get a feel for if I'll be able to sell it again in several years if I have to.


Comments and thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks

Joe
Click to expand...
When it comes to "parts" the only things on the boat that are likely to wear and need replacement are all add-ons (motors, gages, pumps etc.). The parts are the same across many brands and are easy to find. The Cape Cruisers are well built boats and are every bit as good as a C-Dory and IMHO have a few features that are a bit nicer than on a 22' CD (for example wider cockpit steps, angled cleats and a little sharper entry on the bow). You'll have no more trouble selling a Cape Cruiser 23 than a 22 C-Dory of a similar age. Personally, I think the 23CC is worth a couple $1000 more than a comparably aged 22CD.
 
I have not owned a Cape Cruiser, but was very familiar with the Cape Cruiser issue and the people who built it at the time. I am going to put out there the opinion that the Cape Cruiser was better constructed by more competent craftsmen than those making C-Dorys at the Reynolds factory at the same time. Everything else beyond the fiberglass hull and deck was probably of third party manufacture and should not be a problem if you need to replace, but hopefully someone who actually owns a Cape Cruiser will confirm that for you.

[On edit: I see that Roger beat me to it! If it is in sound condition at a price you think is reasonable, go for it!}
 
We bought a Cape Cruiser 23 in 2006. We were very impressed with the design and quality of the boat. We spent some time at the factory and we're pleased to see that the people building the boats were all experienced C-Dory builders. Nothing in the intervening years has lessened my opinion of the boat.

David on Aquavit
 
Here is the backstory on why I think Cape Cruisers are superior to C-Dorys of the same vintage. We bought our first C-Dory in 2003 when the factory was in Kent and producing six boats a month. The lead guy on our build was Buck (sorry, don't remember his last name). Boats were built one at a time by craftsmen who really cared. By 2005 the Reynolds company had moved to a huge facility in Auburn and was producing or had a goal of 60 boats per month. Scott Reynolds got really mad at me for saying so, but boats of this era were built by a large essentially nameless, faceless crew who each had one specialized job. Many of them did not speak English, or speak very well - we made many trips to Auburn during the build of our 25, so I know whereof I speak. The only saving grace was that Andrew Custis (same Andrew now of Ranger Tugs) was in overall charge of our build and took really good care of us. We got to know Andrew so well only because we checked in at the factory in person nearly weekly during our build, something many other people could not do due to distance or time constraints. Buck told me that he and many of the rest of the Kent crew went to Cape Cruiser because they could not work in the environment in which C-Dorys were then being built in Auburn. Buck and those folks at Cape Cruiser knew boat building one at a time forward and backward and cared more about the job they were doing than the Reynolds worker bees.

Truth.
 
Pat,
His name is Buck Williams. Last I heard, he was working at Tern Boat Salvage in Kent, at the same facility where they built the Cape Cruiser. We found him to be highly competent and dedicated to his craft.

David
 
Thanks, yes. Buck is aces with us.

Aquavit":2ai4n79k said:
Pat,
His name is Buck Williams. Last I heard, he was working at Tern Boat Salvage in Kent, at the same facility where they built the Cape Cruiser. We found him to be highly competent and dedicated to his craft.

David
Click to expand...
 
Joe,

In a nutshell, if the CC23 you have found, meets your requirements I would urge you to BUY IT.

The fact that the Cape Cruiser itself was only manufactured for a year (2006) and there are a few labeled as 2007, had nothing to do with the integrity of the vessel/hull itself. In actuality the hull has been reborn as the CD23 Venture, but it's the same hull as the CC23 with a few fancier ad-on's (and a hefty pricetag!).

As for "resale," it's a mixed bag. Various books (BUC, NADA, BlueBook) don't even list the Cape Cruiser since its production run was so short. As I recall, there were only about fifty CC23's & CC26's manufactured so they are barely a blip on the overall boat 'market ... but they're fine boats!

We have owned both a new CD22 and our current 2006 CC23. I would NEVER put down the CD22, but frankly there are some specific CC23 items I like-over the CD22. Please send me a PM if you want specifics.

In the meantime ... if you have found a CC23 that you like; I STRONGLY urge you to BUY IT.

Best,
Casey&Mary
...currently playing 'tourist in Vienna (but headed to Budapest tomorrow)
 
The Cape Cruisers were designed by Ben Toland, of the Toland family, who designed the C-Dorys.

The Cape Cruiser hull form is a 'next generation' version of the C-Dory and is superior in handling and ride. After the loss of the lawsuit to the Reynolds, Ben went on to design the Marinaut, built by Les Lampman of E Q Marine.

The Marinaut is now the 'third generation' of the designs drawn by the Toland family, and is better in many ways than the Cape Cruiser or C-Dory.

I have owned a CD 22 and have test driven the Cape Cruiser 23.
 
I would say that if you like the design/look of the Cape Cruiser, and if the slightly heavier boat/trailering load is not a problem for you, then there is no reason not to buy a CC23, in general. I say "in general" because there could always be a specific boat (of any design) that had problems to avoid.

I would say the CC design has some plusses over the C-Dory (slightly wider side decks, more bouyancy aft (can support larger motor), slightly nicer cockpit. On the other hand, I like the 22 Cruiser better for other reasons: I do like the lighter load when trailering and motoring, I think it's "cuter," and I like the slightly more room (length) in the galley. They each have slightly different "sight lines" when you are in the cabin, so that's something you might want to compare.

As far as problems: I think any production boat has problems or can have them. They are just different ones between models. For example, I've read threads about water in the cockpit deck core ("false" cockpit deck, not hull) and trapped water between the sole and hull in the CC; but then the 22 can have gas tank cleats and angle brackets screwed into the hull, anchor locker glitches, and etc. I don't think either boat is immune to this sort of thing (or any production boat, really).

Unless buying brand new, I wouldn't care, personally, if a boat were still being built or not. Fiberglass is fiberglass, and most parts are sourced from suppliers (motors, cleats, hoses, wires, windows, etc.). I *would* pay close attention to the specific boat for sale and its condition, and I would also go with what I "just like" in addition to what looks better "on paper" (check lists). That's because, for me, a boat is not just a logical purchase, but also a "heart" one.

C-Dory, Cape Cruiser, Venture, or Marinaut (or many other boats): You're going to be able to have a ton of fun! (Which is not to say you are wrong to be doing your research; I fully support that and do the same.)

Sunbeam
 
I got to drive the first cc23 built. I wrote a long report on it at the time but the short story is that the boat is a better design and ride then the cd22 I owned. I would buy one in a min if I was looking for that size boat. I like the handleing , better fuel economy, the lay our of the aft deck , placement of the cleats, height of the windows and roof. Go buy it. Does it have a wood or glass interior? I prefer the wood but either one works.
 
starcrafttom":1o3hqqhx said:
Does it have a wood or glass interior? I prefer the wood but either one works.
Click to expand...

I don't know that I've ever seen a Cape Cruiser with a "stick built" interior; I was thinking they were all the molded fiberglass interior (?).

I agree that from what I know, speaking strictly of hull design, the Cape Cruiser (and later Marinuat) are a more evolved design. Based on that alone, I would definitely prefer a CC23. But then there are a few other factors (as mentioned above) that might make one prefer a 22. And I sure wouldn't turn down a Marinaut 21!
 
Highly satisfied with the purchase of our 2006 CC23. Had over 300 hours on her last year. Everything from cruising the San Juan's to fishing 30 miles offshore. Average fuel economy is around 3.5 MPG or better. Being 6'4" the cabin is a must on the Venture.

I would think you would have an easier time selling the CC23 over a similar 22 since they dont come up for sale used very much. You won't be able to find a value on them from NADA or BUC. An independent appraisal would most likely need to be done. A good marine surveyor will have no problem getting you the value you need.

There are some quirks like any vehicle. Be happy to share.

Troy
 
Thanks for all the info guys!

I can't seem to confirm whether balsa was used in the construction. Anyone know for sure? Odd that the boat is only 1ft longer and slightly wider than a CD, but weighs 1000 lbs more...

Joe
 
afglobemaster":jmchrrf0 said:
Thanks for all the info guys!

I can't seem to confirm whether balsa was used in the construction. Anyone know for sure? Odd that the boat is only 1ft longer and slightly wider than a CD, but weighs 1000 lbs more...

Joe
Click to expand...




Also taller I believe.

Martin.
 
I have had both the cd-22 cruiser and have a cc-23 The differences
I was told the transom was foam but the bottom was balsa cored also decks are balsa cored I think the extra weight is bigger boat plus it has a raised floor plus more standard features ,Fridge ,windlass, elec wipers , wallas stove that works ,bigger fuel tanks twin 30 gallons ,bigger windows etc.
wider 8ft beam vs7 ft 8 in
longer 22ft 9 in vs 22ft
cockpit room for 4 chairs vs 2 chairs
draft same 8-12 in
deadrise in rear 5-6 degrees vs 2-3 degrees
headroom 6ft 4 in vs 6ft 2in
We bought the cc-23 because it had a bigger cockpit and molded fiberglass finish inside the economy was the same about 4-5 smpg with a f-115 vs a 90 suzi We could pull the weight with same car /truck 5000lb for cc-23 vs 4000lb for cd22
The ride is so---------------------much better then cd -22 faster cruising speed about 20-23mph vs 16-18 mph

I am a c-dory/Toland fan having owned 2 cd a 16 and a 22 and the cc-23 venture BTW cape cruiser called their boats venture's before c-dory took them over .

Check out my pictures there is the original brochures from Cape Cruisers
 
Thank you. How does the cabin length/width and over all space stack up and feel as compared do a CD? I haven't been inside the CC yet, but the galley seems to look a bit chopped off. Is the dinette smaller too?

Joe
 
Back
Top