After 12,000+ miles (including the Great Loop) on a single engine, I was recently given a 9HP kicker in good condition which I have installed for the price of a mounting bracket. It came with the throttle lines intact but no steering mechanism. It is currently bolted in a fixed position so that the only way to steer when using the kicker is to use the main engine as a rudder. This is very inefficient and I am wondering whether I could purchase a hydraulic steering mechanism for the kicker and incorporate it into the main hydraulic system so that I can steer the kicker from the main helm. My idea is to connect the kicker hydraulic lines to the main engine hydraulic lines using two tees, and use four shut-off valves to choose which steering mechanism is connected to the helm. Close the two valves on the kicker lines and open the two valves on the main engine lines when using the main engine, and close the valves on the main engine lines and open those on the kicker lines when using the kicker. I would appreciate any thoughts from the experts on this idea. Many thanks!
Can I use the main hydraulic system to steer a kicker?
- Thread starter Cosmic C
- Start date
Wandering Sagebrush
Free Range Human
There are several linkage systems that will steer both the main and kicker. Some are solid rods, SeaStar has a flexible system. I would not try to divert the hydraulics.
You "could" use the hydraulics--but 95% of boaters like the engines mechanically, either at the "tiller arms", or with linkages at the lower units.
If you want to to the more expensive route with the hydraulics, it would be better to use a two way valve, rather than 4 on/off valves.
If you use an autopilot, then the mechanical link would be better. The autopilot would have to be re-calibrated for the smaller motor if doing it hydraulically.
If you want to to the more expensive route with the hydraulics, it would be better to use a two way valve, rather than 4 on/off valves.
If you use an autopilot, then the mechanical link would be better. The autopilot would have to be re-calibrated for the smaller motor if doing it hydraulically.
Pat Anderson
New member
Sea Wolf":leb3jn4f said:
Joe, I like that one! I have a rod that connects the engines right at the front just below the edge of cowling, and it works fine for the main to PULL the kicker, but not for the main to PUSH the kicker. When the main is pushing the kicker, sooner or later, usually sooner, the rod bends. Consequently, I can't really use it. This looks like it would be stiff enough to push or pull the kicker when you turn the main, right? How about more specific information on it?
Wandering Sagebrush
Free Range Human
Sea Wolf":dphpt5db said:
These work nicely, but can be a pain to hook up when you're in the water. We use the rod in front of the engine w/ no problem. I've never seen the rod bend or flex. It's solid stainless, and around 3/8" in diameter.
I've never had any problem with an EZ-Steer rod bending, and just leave them connected all the time if I expect to use the kicker during a trip.
However, if the two motors are connected lower down on their lower drive legs, I can see where connecting and dis-connecting them in the water would be a problem.
You can leave the rod connected when raising or lowering one or the other motors or both of them.
Joe. :teeth :thup
However, if the two motors are connected lower down on their lower drive legs, I can see where connecting and dis-connecting them in the water would be a problem.
You can leave the rod connected when raising or lowering one or the other motors or both of them.
Joe. :teeth :thup
Pat Anderson
New member
Wandering Sagebrush":399b0bfw said:
I'v had a couple of them, and never had one that DIDN'T bend! This is a 3/8" threaded stainless rod, and as far as I can tell, it is useless when it is bent like this!
Wandering Sagebrush
Free Range Human
Pat Anderson":262gqxxf said:Wandering Sagebrush":262gqxxf said:
I'v had a couple of them, and never had one that DIDN'T bend! This is a 3/8" threaded stainless rod, and as far as I can tell, it is useless when it is bent like this!
Pat, my new engine necessitated a bend exactly like that. It seems to work fine. I'm at a loss why yours is bending when being pushed. Is the kicker stiff when pushed? Rod catching on something?
journey on
New member
Well, that rod is a classic demonstration of compression bending. 3/8" doesn't seem like a very large diameter. What you need is a rod that has more resistance to bending, such as a larger diameter tube. Saw off the ends, buy a length of tubing and visit a welding shop. Remember, only the outer part of the rod takes bending stress, so a larger tube will be stronger and lighter.
Or, you could decrease the load by making sure that the kicker is free to move; either by loosening the damper or greasing the pivots.
Boris
Or, you could decrease the load by making sure that the kicker is free to move; either by loosening the damper or greasing the pivots.
Boris
We use a tie rod the same as the one Pat is showing is bent and have had no problems with it. We have a 90hp Honda and tie it to a 8hp Honda and both motors are left in the down position while tied together.. We have many hours fishing in very nice to very rough waters. I would think that there must be something binding on the kicker for it to bend like this. These tie rods have been commonly used on many different types of boats for years. They have a quick release and must be removed before raising either of the motors. It is very easy to remove them and reinstall from the cockpit
I think it's very important to keep the geometry simple and more:
A. Kicker must be kept as parallel as possible to main motor for efficient force transfer with tube level at same height on both motors, without diagonal link, which would increase the stress with forces not aligned for easy transfer. A kicker mounting bracket can introduce some crazy alignment problems here.
B. Tube attachment at far rear of motors or far front, to increase leverage arm. Too close to center of turning radius increases force necessary to transfer movement & steer. Big and small motors will have different leverage arm lengths simply due to size differences. You may be able to engineer this out of the equation by how you mount the connecting brackets on the motors, at least when mounted at the rear.
C. Advantage to have "fail safe" release mechanism built into the linking arm which can allow the arm to lengthen or shorten if the force transfer becomes excessive to prevent arm bending/failure. This is built into the EZ-Steer system and the release point is adjustable. (I have no affiliation with mfr., just know from experience it works!)
My 2 cents! :lol:
Joe. :teeth :thup
A. Kicker must be kept as parallel as possible to main motor for efficient force transfer with tube level at same height on both motors, without diagonal link, which would increase the stress with forces not aligned for easy transfer. A kicker mounting bracket can introduce some crazy alignment problems here.
B. Tube attachment at far rear of motors or far front, to increase leverage arm. Too close to center of turning radius increases force necessary to transfer movement & steer. Big and small motors will have different leverage arm lengths simply due to size differences. You may be able to engineer this out of the equation by how you mount the connecting brackets on the motors, at least when mounted at the rear.
C. Advantage to have "fail safe" release mechanism built into the linking arm which can allow the arm to lengthen or shorten if the force transfer becomes excessive to prevent arm bending/failure. This is built into the EZ-Steer system and the release point is adjustable. (I have no affiliation with mfr., just know from experience it works!)
My 2 cents! :lol:
Joe. :teeth :thup
starcrafttom
Active member
pat??? only you....
I have the same rod on the 225 hp to the 15 hp hondas and I never take them apart. If set up right you can raise and lower the motors separately. Your kicker should be able to move with little or no resistance.
I have the same rod on the 225 hp to the 15 hp hondas and I never take them apart. If set up right you can raise and lower the motors separately. Your kicker should be able to move with little or no resistance.
starcrafttom
Active member
Many thanks to you all for your replies. The reason I was considering the hydraulic rout rather than the mechanical rout was that I want to operate the kicker with the main motor raised, and I couldn't see any way to do this with a mechanical linkage - see photo.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5xgb80g539o8 ... r.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5xgb80g539o8 ... r.jpg?dl=0
Many thanks to you all for your replies. The reason I was considering the hydraulic rout rather than the mechanical rout was that I want to operate the kicker with the main motor raised, and I couldn't see any way to do this with a mechanical linkage - see photo.
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Avidmagnum12
Member
Panther also makes an electric steering devices that can steer your kicker by a push button controller. I saw one in use up on Lake Superior this summer. The throttle was also controlled by the same unit. Pretty cool!
I just use an arm between the main and the Yamaha 9.9 on my boat. It's simple and works well for trolling. When I get back to Florida after the Mississippi Gathering I plan on ordering the Trollmaster 3+ from Panther to control the speed. I have a tiller on my 9.9 and it will be possible to change speeds from anywhere on the boat. I run at hull speed a lot and I'll be able to give the 200 Yamaha some time off.
I just use an arm between the main and the Yamaha 9.9 on my boat. It's simple and works well for trolling. When I get back to Florida after the Mississippi Gathering I plan on ordering the Trollmaster 3+ from Panther to control the speed. I have a tiller on my 9.9 and it will be possible to change speeds from anywhere on the boat. I run at hull speed a lot and I'll be able to give the 200 Yamaha some time off.