My house is on a hill. On one side, next to the attached garage, the hill went down at quite an angle until the end of my property, about 12 feet away. Son Joe built a wall along the property line behind a row of arbor vitae. He used these semi-triangular 70 lb cement blocks and the wall is two and three rows high. I filled in the area with, well, fill. When we kept our 22' boat in the water we stored out trailer there. Perfect. Now that I have the wonderful 16 footer and keep it on the trailer I want to know if it is safe to park the boat and trailer there.It would be perfect. Joe says no. He says it would be too heavy and the wall. blah, blah, blah. He pointed out to me that he has two degrees in civil engineering. I told him I would go to the source, and ask you guys.
Can I park here?
- Thread starter dotnmarty
- Start date
Captains Cat
New member
Marty, is it level? And how long has it been there If it's well compacted and level, the weight of a 16 on a trailer, distributed over two tires and a tongue shouldn't be too much for it. Hopefully the blocks forming the wall slope up towards the house and aren't just straight up and down....
If your tires don't sink in when you're backing into it, it should be OK...
On the other hand, kids usually get smarter as they get older. Mine did... I did too, they tell me. :shock:
Charlie
If your tires don't sink in when you're backing into it, it should be OK...
On the other hand, kids usually get smarter as they get older. Mine did... I did too, they tell me. :shock:
Charlie
Charlie-Its been there about 3 years. I put pavers down where the wheels go.
Each wall block has a little lip on the back so each successive top one hooks on to the one below. The wall is level, as is thefill, maybe a one degree downward angle for runoff. How come you're not raking leaves.?
Each wall block has a little lip on the back so each successive top one hooks on to the one below. The wall is level, as is thefill, maybe a one degree downward angle for runoff. How come you're not raking leaves.?
Marty-
How deep is the fill on the average, and at it's deepest point?
How saturated would you guess the fill can become with water?
What composition is the fill?
Is there anything it it to resist flowing like the crushed rock in roadbed gravel?
Is it of a kind that, when saturated with water, would flow easily?
If you're going to ask amateurs to make a recommendation, a photo or two of the site would be very helpful!
Is there a Soil Engineer in the C-Brat house?
Joe.
How deep is the fill on the average, and at it's deepest point?
How saturated would you guess the fill can become with water?
What composition is the fill?
Is there anything it it to resist flowing like the crushed rock in roadbed gravel?
Is it of a kind that, when saturated with water, would flow easily?
If you're going to ask amateurs to make a recommendation, a photo or two of the site would be very helpful!
Is there a Soil Engineer in the C-Brat house?
Joe.
Joe-Good questions all. It's gonna take a while to get the answers together, but I will try. And I won't park there until I do get an OK. Is there a specific kind of professional I could go to to have this area checked? I have very good neighbors and I wouldn't want my boat falling into their yard.
Alyssa Jean
New member
Picures would be good.
tom&shan
New member
Anna Leigh":1ss2h64q said:
After it falls in the neighbors yard or before ?
dotnmarty":1ty5kc0w said:
Heck, I'd park it there. I know civil engineers - both my Dad and brother have the plaques on the wall (Go Bears!), and working for a water utility, I also deal with these paranoid number crunchers all day long.
As such, they tend to have the mindset that nothing should be built that can't withstand the apocalypse. Fer example, our back yard patio (my Dad's old house) has concrete 6" thick.
Besides...if I'm wrong, it sounds like you have somebody standing by that could fix it. :xnaughty
flapbreaker
New member
tom&shan":39xkz45r said:
Preferably before, then a few actions shots. Then finish up with the post mortem. :xlol
The absolute best thing you can do is.......TRUST your son...and agree with his assesment.... even if you think it is wrong... he has a degree and if you go against his advise you will really hurt his feelings, and damage your relationship...big time.
I know this for a fact....my father would trust some guy working in a gas station before he would ever trust anything I had to say....even though I taught auto mechanics at a community college.
Joel
SEA3PO
I know this for a fact....my father would trust some guy working in a gas station before he would ever trust anything I had to say....even though I taught auto mechanics at a community college.
Joel
SEA3PO
wailedcentipede
New member
we have a house around the block used the landscape blocks .. build up front and side of yard .. to walk past it has to be close to six feet at center has been their now for quite a few years ... filled to the top with earth and looks as good as the day it was built ...not a answer really but the point is those landscape blocks on good footing don't budge that easily their a good product .... wc
Captains Cat
New member
dotnmarty":1dwoig2k said:
Marty, please park next to my yard and let your boat fall into it. I'd like a little C-Dory! :wink
Charlie
Marty-
It seems you've got several questions or groups of questions to deal with here:
1. Technical questions about soil type, stability, structural integrity of the wall, etc.
2. Personal relationship questions about whether to trust you son's judgment, expertise, etc., and what will happen to your relationship if you don't.
3. How much risk taking you're comfortable with concerning the boat in view of the uncertainty posed by the landfill, etc.
First of all, you really won't get an accurate and definitive answer from a bunch or amateurs like us looking at a few emails, with or without the photos we requested.
It would take a Soil Engineeer with on site observations and lab tests to give you the best answer, and then it would still be a guess based on the information gathered and some probability estimations. And it would be expensive.
I seems to me at this point that if you want to protect your relationship and strengthen it with your son, you should put the burden of the decision making back on him by asking him what changes would have to be made to improve the stability of the site. Does it need paving to keep the water out? Would metal stakes driven into the deep, firm underlying soil, help the top fill from moving? Do the blocks need to be tied together better?, Etc., etc.
This way you'll put your trust in his judgement, and may well get the corrective work, if any, done for the cost of the materials, and improve the site until you trust it much better yourself.
This approach is not without risks, however, as he could say that the site cannot be made safe.
In that case, I'd suggest you let it rest for awhile, then test it by putting some weight similar to your boat on it for a few good wet months or a season, and then if it doesn't show any movement, declare it safe by testing, and park it there anyway!
Good Luck!
Joe.
It seems you've got several questions or groups of questions to deal with here:
1. Technical questions about soil type, stability, structural integrity of the wall, etc.
2. Personal relationship questions about whether to trust you son's judgment, expertise, etc., and what will happen to your relationship if you don't.
3. How much risk taking you're comfortable with concerning the boat in view of the uncertainty posed by the landfill, etc.
First of all, you really won't get an accurate and definitive answer from a bunch or amateurs like us looking at a few emails, with or without the photos we requested.
It would take a Soil Engineeer with on site observations and lab tests to give you the best answer, and then it would still be a guess based on the information gathered and some probability estimations. And it would be expensive.
I seems to me at this point that if you want to protect your relationship and strengthen it with your son, you should put the burden of the decision making back on him by asking him what changes would have to be made to improve the stability of the site. Does it need paving to keep the water out? Would metal stakes driven into the deep, firm underlying soil, help the top fill from moving? Do the blocks need to be tied together better?, Etc., etc.
This way you'll put your trust in his judgement, and may well get the corrective work, if any, done for the cost of the materials, and improve the site until you trust it much better yourself.
This approach is not without risks, however, as he could say that the site cannot be made safe.
In that case, I'd suggest you let it rest for awhile, then test it by putting some weight similar to your boat on it for a few good wet months or a season, and then if it doesn't show any movement, declare it safe by testing, and park it there anyway!
Good Luck!
Joe.
Captains Cat
New member
Damn Joe, that's too hard. Maybe put your boat there, it's heavier!!Marty, just park the sucker there and see if it's there tomorrow...
Charlie :wink
Charlie :wink
As always some great advice. We faced a similar issue. Our house is bult on a mound of compacted earth--and the neighbors yards are at least 4 feet lower (the difference between having 4 feet of water in your house and none in hurricane Ivan).
We built a wall--poured footers about 1 foot deep, and then up to 4 feet of concrete block--with Rebar going into the footers, folder over into the 4" cap drive made of 3500 PSI fibre reinforced concrete. We park a 20,000 lb RV, and a 9,000 lb truck on this structure, with no cracks or sliding, despite being flooded over the top of the drive during storms.
I realize that is much different than your situation--but it shows that you can build a structure which is resistant to slipage. (I'll have to admit we didn't have an engineer do the design--just some good old boys who work with concrete all of the time.)
So in your case, you might ask your son, if there is anything you can do to strenthten the wall--such as putting in rebar, different footings, change drainage--to keep the relationship--and get the boat on the drive. My guess is that the boat will be fine--but you have lots of considerations...
We built a wall--poured footers about 1 foot deep, and then up to 4 feet of concrete block--with Rebar going into the footers, folder over into the 4" cap drive made of 3500 PSI fibre reinforced concrete. We park a 20,000 lb RV, and a 9,000 lb truck on this structure, with no cracks or sliding, despite being flooded over the top of the drive during storms.
I realize that is much different than your situation--but it shows that you can build a structure which is resistant to slipage. (I'll have to admit we didn't have an engineer do the design--just some good old boys who work with concrete all of the time.)
So in your case, you might ask your son, if there is anything you can do to strenthten the wall--such as putting in rebar, different footings, change drainage--to keep the relationship--and get the boat on the drive. My guess is that the boat will be fine--but you have lots of considerations...
Chris Bulovsky
New member
If thats the only spot to put her you have to do it . Consider a chain to the trailer in the unlikely event that she goes slip sliding away. Your insurance company may thank you later. :lol: What kind of angle are we looking at here?
Chris Bulovsky
Chris Bulovsky
Joel- Are you sure your name is Joel and not Solomon!? I have spoken with my son about this today while he was doing all kinds of maintenance on my boat on his day off. I was standing outside the boat telling him about my posting on this issue. He was in the boat, stopped what he was doing and looked me in the eye and said the following "It would really upset me if you ever parked the boat there." I have gotten lots of good advise and some real belly laughs from your responses. But, I have decided that next Spring I will plant scallions, and tomatoes in that sunny side-patch. As for whether or not it would hold the boat, best I never know. .
CatyMae n Steve
New member
dotnmarty":m5glrcf7 said:
Smart man!
Chris Bulovsky
New member
But, I have decided that next Spring I will plant scallions, and tomatoes in that sunny side-patch. As for whether or not it would hold the boat, best I never know. .[/quote]
Sounds biblical..........Very profound. Kinda wise too. :wink: :lol:
Chris Bulovsky
Sounds biblical..........Very profound. Kinda wise too. :wink: :lol:
Chris Bulovsky
Marty – my two cents based on experience in building roads and looking at photo and topographical maps of your area.
If the fill is three years old and it was what is commonly known as fill dirt (not clay that liquefies when saturated or sand) it should have had time to set up by now.
You being from back east might call a slope a hill side. The land in your area has a 6 to 8% slope to the east and south. Your immediate area has a 7 foot drop in 100 feet. The small hill to the south and west of you has only a 50 feet rise above the swamps at its base. The steepest part of it is only a 35% slope. That could be considered a hill side. When I was logging we considered that the steepest we could use wheel skidders to log on without turning over when we got sideways on it.
Back to your fill area. You can do a simple test to see if it has set up and now is the perfect time. Get a piece of round stock (Steel) about ¼ inch in diameter and four feet long. (Do not sharpen it) Go out in your fill and try pushing the rod into the ground in many different places. If you push at a slight angle it is easier to push it in.
If it goes in easy everywhere, you don’t want to park there. If it starts easy but gradually gets harder as you go down and it stops within 24 inches of the surface you will be OK. If it goes farther but very hard and hard to pull out, it should be OK.
One other thing you can do is get two 2x12 pressure treated boards by however long you need them and dig them in level with the ground for runners. They will spread the load out enough you could just about get away with parking in a swamp.
I believe the photo below shows your house and the blue arrow points it the direction of the ground slope from your garage.
________
Dave
If the fill is three years old and it was what is commonly known as fill dirt (not clay that liquefies when saturated or sand) it should have had time to set up by now.
You being from back east might call a slope a hill side. The land in your area has a 6 to 8% slope to the east and south. Your immediate area has a 7 foot drop in 100 feet. The small hill to the south and west of you has only a 50 feet rise above the swamps at its base. The steepest part of it is only a 35% slope. That could be considered a hill side. When I was logging we considered that the steepest we could use wheel skidders to log on without turning over when we got sideways on it.
Back to your fill area. You can do a simple test to see if it has set up and now is the perfect time. Get a piece of round stock (Steel) about ¼ inch in diameter and four feet long. (Do not sharpen it) Go out in your fill and try pushing the rod into the ground in many different places. If you push at a slight angle it is easier to push it in.
If it goes in easy everywhere, you don’t want to park there. If it starts easy but gradually gets harder as you go down and it stops within 24 inches of the surface you will be OK. If it goes farther but very hard and hard to pull out, it should be OK.
One other thing you can do is get two 2x12 pressure treated boards by however long you need them and dig them in level with the ground for runners. They will spread the load out enough you could just about get away with parking in a swamp.
I believe the photo below shows your house and the blue arrow points it the direction of the ground slope from your garage.
________
Dave