C-Dory Competition?

I'd choose any C-Dory over the Cape Cruiser any instant, doesn't matter how much they look so much like one. The point is, "THEY LOOK like a C-Dory," not the other around. As well, I think the Cape Cruiser just looks ugly... real ugly.
The cabin's shape and sense of curves don't appreciate the overall image, same with the transom - why would you make a rugged, salty NW boat that has the same mod of transoms with them sport, deep-vees? And also, why would you have a little 5 degree vee? What advantages would you have with so small of a vee? I just guess what differences the CC has from the CD are pretty much worthless.

However, the extended height of the cabin, the wider gunnel, larger cockpit, and aluminum fueltanks are advantages though...

I love C-Dory, I guess I'm bias
 
Just got back and I have to say. Man what a boat!! It is a topnotch boat just like the Cdory, although there were some big differences. The main ones I noted were:

1. the Hull, it definatly has more V, but I wouldn't call it deep V as its pretty flat in the back too. And has a flat spot in the middle that the Cdory does not have( I believe). It planed out quickly at low speeds, and handled very nice.

2. Transom- major improvement in my eyes, better battery storage, and even though you lose the side storage in the cockpit you get some here, that helps to make up for it. Also helps keep big waves out.

3. Flat floors both cockpit and cabin. Both floors are foam filled and flat, with nonskid molded in. the cockpit floor actually slopes back a bit to help the water drain to the rear of boat. This also was a big one for me, and just made the boat look more finished to my eye. And the boat is just as deep as a Cdory( no worries about falling out) and has a bit more flotation.

4. Cockpit lights under gunnels, and fresh water deck washdown come standard. Two features which I have in my current boat(defiance) which I would not be with out (if you fish)

5. 30 gallon aluminum gas tanks.

6. Smaller cook area, 1 burner wallas is standard but they can fit in the two burner if wanted. space around is a bit smaller.

7. Table design. Looked much sturdier and easy to deploy or put away.

8. Fiberglass cabinets, instead of wood. (Easy to wash, and one molded piece)

9.V berth a little taller, and has a hatch to seperate rope locker from V berth.

10. Roof taller all the way across and made to be load bearing. It even has nonskid up there.

11. Longer wrap around bow rail.

12. Wider, longer , heavier. 1000lbs heavier than Cdory advertised weight(22cruiser)

13.Faster, less pounding. Twin 50 hp is what the boat that I tested had on it. It seemed to go quite a bit faster than the Cdory I have been on, and took the waves a little gentler. They also said it gets very good gas mileage similar to the Cdory.

Overall I loved this boat!! It rode well, has a great layout and suited what I am looking for better than a Cdory. I'm sure not everyone will find it that way, but they definatly make a high quality boat. I don't agree that this boat is more of a fisherman, and less of a cruiser than the 22. Or that it is a pumped up arima ( I had one, now that is a way different boat) C Dory, and Cape Cruiser are too similar in size and layout for that to be the case. and as far as that goes the 23 is bigger, and should cruise nice too. I think that both boats would make a great fishing or cruising boat. I was also impressed by the salesman and the staff, they all seemed honest and up front. They never said a bad thing about Cdory, and actually paid tribute to them. They also explained that when Cdory was sold, the Toland's sold the molds only, and they held the right to redesign or modify their own original design. Which makes sense to me since they came up with it in the first place. I felt they let the product speak for itself rather than bad mouth anyone, and I give them props for that. Anyway, I 'm going to purchase one if I can work out the finances, and I think they are a great boat too. I'm sure they will have a following just as the CD's do. I just don't see why people like to divide themselves so. The cape cruiser is from the same designers as all your beloved Cdory's, they are the same family of boats. They both are great boats!! Any way, this is just my opinion, nothing more than that. So don't take it too seriously.

Hope to see you on the water

Sark
 
If the CC really weighs 1000 lbs more than the C-dory then that would of been a real deal breaker for me. I couldn't justify getting a full size pickup just to tow a boat once in awhile. Otherwise it looks like a nice boat.
 
With all of these great comments, I'm really looking forward to test driving the Cape Cruiser 23 later this month. It seems as if the closer you look at the boat the more differences you see.

I think a head-to-head comparison is the only way to go!

Thanks so much for sharing all of your feedback.

Robert Stuberg
 
Well I just got back from looking at the cape cruiser with sark. Sark covered most of the items in his post but having owned my c-dory for 10 months and then riding in the cape cruiser here what I think.
I think that the designers of cape cruiser have come up with a boat that corrects some of the shortcomings of the c-dory while creating others, maybe. First and foremost is the cockpit floor. This has always been a shortcoming on the c-dory. It’s wet and does not drain well. Many of us have come up with fixes for this problem and the factory even sells floorboards. The floorboards are good but only raise you out of the water; they do not address the real problem, which is direction of drainage. This has been a sore spot with me for a while but I live with it and the forward pump works o.k. The cape cruiser has built a floor that is raised and SLOOPED TO THE BACK, thus allowing the water to always drain to the back and then be removed by a pump sitting in a 2 to 3 inch deep well. I see this as a major improvement over the c-design. Also you lose NO height at the gunnels at all. They are almost the same height, maybe a ½ inch difference.


Second. I have always hated the rear transom. I know others here feel different, but I cannot figure out why. I do not see why anyone would want a big opening in the back of their boat. I do not think it’s unsafe, I just see no reason for it and have thought long and hard about how to fix it. It just seems like a waste of room. The CC has done what I wish c-dory had done long ago. They have not only closed this space but have also built in a lot of storage space into the design. This makes up for any lost storage from the side rail design (which I do not like). With this space, which runs the whole width of the cockpit, I would be able to get my batteries out of the storage hatches. I would like to use the live wells for crab and shrimp. This storage space is closed and can be locked with a different door. There is still a lot of room in the splash well for ropes and fenders etc.. All in all, the cockpit with the closed splash well, sloped floor and better drainage, and wider width is a better solution then the c-dory. The gunnels rise about 3 inches from the cockpit to the side of the cabin, which is what allows for the higher cabin and windows. I did like the location of the rear cleats off the side of the cockpit. The c- dory has them to far back on the hull. The CC has them mid way between the cabin and the end of the cockpit. They are at an angle and out of the way. Flush mounted cleats would be a great upgrade in this location.


At 6 foot I have a hard time looking out the windows of the c-dory while standing in the cabin. I have to squat just a little in order to get a clear view. This really gets on my nerves while fishing and starts to hurt my neck after a long day. The CC cabin is the same height as my high top, but the height is the same across the whole cabin. This along with the cabin starting a little higher allows the windows to be set higher. The front windows are several inches higher and really allows for a better view while standing in the cabin. This is a none issue for any one under 6 foot but it bugs me a lot.


The way that the table lowers and stores has always been a pain in the ass. The table is always coming out when you lean on it and getting it out from the wall and stored is just a pain, as is getting it back on the wall. The CC has come up with a really great, easy and pain less set up. The table is hinged at the wall and supported by a thingy (sorry) that projects out from the wall and is connected to the far underside of the table. You just lift a little a push the rod lock to collapse the support and the table folds down flat against the wall. The draw back is that you do not get a half table to sit at while the forward seat is facing forward. Its just a matter of how much you want that half table? The backrest of the forward seat is set up much like the seat on the 25s or the tomcat. You just pull out the seat back and switch it to the other side of the seat. It’s a really neat design. They have also installed a shelf to the outside of the seat, between the seat and the hull that adds some storage.


There is at least 3 inches more headroom in the berth. I can just sit up straight on the bed and not hit my head. I cant even come close in my c-dory. In fact I can’t sit up straight on the port-a-pot in the c-dory. The berth is no longer or wider then the c-dory, just taller. Which adds the feel of room. The rope locker has been walled off from the berth, which will keep the stink out and is something that I will have to do to my boat this winter for Susan.


How did it run? Well I think the ride is maybe a little smoother in the chop and not as bangy as the 22 dory. I think this is a benefit of the extra weight. The hull is very much the same but with a more vertical bow enter and a 5 degree v in the back. The CC is a little wider so the fuel burn they say will be the same or better. The speed with two 50 hp Hondas was greater then my single but we did not have a gps for real numbers. They clam a top speed of 35 mph and with a 115 I would believe it. The CC will take up to 150hp. I am a firm believer in having more horsepower then you need just in case you need it. The handling was the same sliding ass around that I have grown to love in my dory.


Now for the things that I did not like about the CC. The cooking area is a little smaller and does not have the space the c-dory does. You can still get a two burner stove in the space but it will be tight. They have switched the fridge and the storage doors under the counter. The over all space is somewhat smaller but still enough. The storage under the seats is the same. As I mentioned before the table is not usable when the front seat is in the forward facing mode. Other them that I found nothing about this boat I did not like.


All in all and at about the same price If I was buying today and not 10 months ago. I would maybe pick the CC over the dory. Sorry guys, I have been a firm c-dory lover for three years Since the first time I say a dory, but every boat is a compromise and there have been somethings that bug me about the c-dory from day one. The CC has addressed those areas with out taking much away from the boat. I think that CC has done a really good job in the design department, but the same people did a really good job designing the c-dory in the first place. Some day in the future I will be looking for another boat and it will not be either of these. I want some thing with a stand up head. My next decision will be between the 25 dory and the 26 CC. So lets see what the two companys come up with in the next 5 years. I would be very happy if any cape cruiser owners choose to join our group of happy and friendly boating folks on one of our events. Its not so much about the boat as about the style of boating that we do.
 
I have no doubt in my mind that the CC is a very well improved boat, lets get serious here look who designed it. When I built my first house it was a very good house, but when I built my second house it was a lot better house!..... A C-Dory to me, has to be a very great compromise. I can load it with every thing ,50 gals of fuel , water , fishing gear, coolers , honda generator, two dogs, ect.... Then when I go cruising or fishing I glance at my factory fuel management with a big grin on my face knowing that I still have a bit of money left over for a few BREW and a bottle of wine. 1000 lbs heavier on the CC, 115hp to 150hp, sorry but at $4.95 a gallon of fuel in CANADA and who knows how high it will go. No thank you. I think I will keep my CD for few more years! PS if I wanted a faster better nicer riding boat, with bigger power it would not be a C-Dory or Cape, maybe an Orca , Grady White, Osprey..... Gary SEARAM
 
Maybe there are a few people who are not aware that the Tolands built commercial fishing boats before the C-Dory actually came into the picture. The commercial boats they built, for the most part, do not have the C-Dory name on them. I have seen a photo of a charter boat in Alaska that was definitely built by the Tolands and there are many more in the Alaska area.

It was during the 1970's and the gas lines that they began to look for a design for sportfishermen which was economical to operate and a nuts & bolts fishing boat. The appealing aspect of the C-Dory product was that it was seaworthy and designed for a 70 hp outboard or less. In rough conditions offshore, this well balanced dory type boat was superior to large deep vee hulls with the larger horse power outboards. In rough seas, the C-Dory will plane easily at 12 to 14 knots with a balanced boat and an economical 70 hp outboard. The deep vee boats consume large quantities of gasoline trying to get on plane or back on plane under the same conditions. Again, I would like to stress that this boat is designed as an economical "a nuts & bolts fishing boat." I do not see any short comings in my 22ft C-Dory, when it is used as it was intended to be used.

I feel bad for the Tolands when their products are misconstrued to be something they weren't designed to be. The Tolands have marine knowledge well beyond a "a nuts & bolts fishing boat".

I hope this information does not offend anyone. I've looked at their product for quite sometime before I was in a position to buy one new. I knew what I bought very well. It is as much boat as I can afford to maintain and then some.
 
True! all-a-yas! By the last post, I got the idea this new CC bridges-the-gap between a CD 22 and the other far-off-boats----"Orca" "Sea Sport" Grady" Osprey"
For me and travlin/tralerin', gotta stick with the CD22 or smaller :mrgreen: Bigger is not always better :mrgreen:

:rainbow (that's not a "gay rainbow" :shock: ... it's a Gods Rainbow :rose )

puff puff... out.... :cigar :cigar

:xnaughty
 
I think that the CC does bridge the gap. larger c-dory or small orca,your choice. I don't think the fuel burn will be much higher than the c-dory. three riversmarines web sites has the numbers if you want to look at them. I love my c-dory but there are things I would have done different if I built it.
 
Fuel:

For those that already have a C-Dory -- load it up to max sometime and check the fuel burn. Is it less?

If you have 1000 extra pounds from the get-go, and 25 more horsepower (on a single) minimum (60 recommended) to push it, are you going to burn less?

I regularly run my CD at 4500lbs and can guarantee what you'll find.

This CC is a good boat -- but it's a different boat. Not better, not worse -- different. If it fits the bill for you -- that's the boat to get. The CD was designed (as noted above) with frugality in mind -- this new boat is a lot of things, but it won't be frugal. You'll need a big vehicle to tow it, and a big wallet to feed it, and if you can do all that -- it will be a great boat no doubt in my mind. It's stout. I had that -- actually in a number of boats -- and am damn glad I'm in the CD in this (fuel) environment (just blind luck on my part -- I sold my big Navy patrol model Whaler just before this fuel crunch).

For those that have the wallet -- go for it. I do think this CC is another great boat from the Tolands.
 
At 21 mph, where I spend a great deal of my time, the numbers are not far off. 4.5 g.p.h. on the cc and 4.2 for the c-dory. now thats apples and oranges of twins to singles but it was as close as i could get with the info provided. I just cant bring my self to bash a great boat just because I own something different. when i bought the c-dory it was the only boat on the marked that did what I wanted. trailerable, light weight, good fuel burn, camper boat, and fishable. There were other boats that fish better or run the ruff better or have more room and even better gas mileage, but all at the cost of something else on the list. Now there are two boats that do what i want. Another gallon an hour for a bigger cockpit and a little more weight is not bad at all. And yes I would need a little bigger truck, but I need a little bigger truck with the c-dory. the ford ranger does it ok but I have not gone to chalan for a reason, the hills. my truck has 198,000 miles on it. but as I said in a earlier post I will be deciding between the 25 c-dory and the 26 CC which is not built yet .



23' Cape Cruiser with Yamaha F-115 four stroke, 13.25 x 17 aluminum prop, 62 gallons fuel, 20 gallons water, 2 persons and 200lbs gear. Speed by GPS, Fuel burn by NAVMAN fuel management gauge. Calm conditions, 90 degrees.
R.P.M. M.P.H. G.P.H. M.P.G
1000 4.2
1500 5.9 .8 7.38
2000 7.4 1.4 5.29
2500 8.6 2.0 4.3
3000 11.3 2.8 4.04
3500 16.2 3.3 4.91
4000 21.0 4.5 4.67
4500 26.5 5.3 5.0
5000 3.02 6.9 4.38
5500 35.0 8.7 4.02
5700 WOT 36.8



Twin Honda 40 Hp, Four Stroke
11 1/2" X 13" Prop, 3 blade, Aluminum
800 Lb. People, Fuel & Gear.
Fuel consumption, is for "both" motors
Miles Knots
R.P.M. G.P.H. M.P.H. M.P.G. N.M.P.H. N.M.P.G.
3000 1.75 10.9 4.98 9.5 5.42
3500 3.00 15.0 5.01 13.1 4.36
4000 3.50 18.7 5.34 16.3 4.65
4500 4.20 22.5 5.35 19.5 4.65
5000 4.90 26.0 5.31 22.6 4.62
5500 6.75 29.4 4.35 25.5 3.78
6000 7.80 31.1 3.98 27.0 3.47
 
I don't think the CC is going to cost much more to run than a Cdory. You don't have to put a 150 Hp on it just because it can take it. The one Tom and I test rode had twin 50's and it performed nicely. And they have options for 90's etc... But to have the option for more power is nice. I think the CC will be just about as economical to run as a CDory, it is about a 1000 lbs heavier than Cdory advertised weight, but as far as real world #'s and weights, and the differences between the two. No one really knows yet. Same on fuel burn, I don't think with comparable motors the CC will burn that much more fuel. Of course if you throw a 150 hp on it, it will eat more gas. But until someone is out there running one, and coming back with real world #'s we just won't know. I think the CC will appeal to those who wanted more Hp on a Cdory. Since I've been a member here, I've seen it asked a couple times " why cant you put a bigger motor on a cDory" From those who wanted more than the recommended engine size. I was surprised how the CC hull handled and the speed it got out of the twin 50's. I wouldn't be surprised if the actual fuel burn #'s are quite good and comparable to a cDory. I'm also still surprised at how many people just do not want to like this boat. I know people generally like to reinforce their own purchase, by convincing others(and themselves )that they made the right decision in their purchase. If someone else makes the same decision, it reinforces it and makes us feel like we made the right decision in the first place. So there are alot of knee jerk reactions in life, where we just take an old perspective without truly reevaluating the actual
situation ,product or whatever it is. I feel the CC is a great boat that will appeal to the same type of people that Cdory's appeal to. That they are good cruisers that are much more economical than a deep V boat,are light in weight for the size and have maximum livability in a smaller boat just like the Cdory. I have no doubt that they will have plenty of people, that find the CC fits their needs and budget etc. I just wonder how this boat would be looked at if Cdory came up with it. I'm sure the response would be quite different.

Sark
 
So Flapbreaker & Sneaks-- Just checking ,(regarding motorcycle comments) does this mean that the members with the 16' and 19' C-Dories have to buy all the drinks at gatherings for all the 22' members? What about the 25's? Boy are these gathering going to get expensive for some of us! Rich
 
fiddlersgreen6":3529tvql said:
So Flapbreaker & Sneaks-- Just checking ,(regarding motorcycle comments) does this mean that the members with the 16' and 19' C-Dories have to buy all the drinks at gatherings for all the 22' members? What about the 25's? Boy are these gathering going to get expensive for some of us! Rich
Click to expand...

Arimas, Cape Crusaders, and Dodge Ram drivers, AFAIC. :moon
 
No question in my mind that CC is a great boat! It will appeal to many people , the changes that have been made are very well thoughtout. If I had to do it all over again, I would be a basket case in trying to choose which one to buy. Having said that again, some of you out there might fool some of the people some of the time but you can not fool all the people all of the time!... My point is 1 to 1.5 gal. difference between the C-D and the CC in my books will add after a year of cruising & fishing . Lets say 250hrs (1.5 gal x 250 hrs @ $4.95 gal = $1856.25 ) In my book it is a big difference . It may be okay for rich folk but then again if I was rich I would cruising a 37' Nordic Tug. Remember there will always be something better , bigger. faster, more practical than my C-D but man What a beautiful boat this . Spent the whole day yesterday( will call it prawning here) cooked on the boat, played crib with the wallas on. Man what a day that was.... Gary SEARAM
 
fiddlersgreen6":1uyywqm9 said:
So Flapbreaker & Sneaks-- Just checking ,(regarding motorcycle comments) does this mean that the members with the 16' and 19' C-Dories have to buy all the drinks at gatherings for all the 22' members? What about the 25's? Boy are these gathering going to get expensive for some of us! Rich
Click to expand...

Now now now. Don't take what I said the wrong way. I'm sure if somone buys a Cape Cruiser and want's to join a pod of C-dory's I'm sure they will be welcome. However we are the C-brats and not the Cape-brats so I'm not sure why someone with a Cape Cruiser would be interested in going to a C-dory function. It would be a bit like showing up to a Tupperware party (do they still do that?) after you bought a bunch of saran wrap (No I'm not calling Cape Cruisers Saran Wrap- just different than Tupperware :lol: ).

Incase you haven't figured it out yet I have a slightly warped sense of humor. :smilep
 
Guys: pointing out differences and preferences is not bashing. If anything is getting bashed, it's the C-Dory . . . If you like that boat -- then buy that boat and be done with it.

Let's address some "issues." "Hole in the back of the boat." That "hole" lets water out if you take a wave over the top . . . and unlike some other brands, the Dory is fully modifyable -- you can glass your "hole" or put a board over your "hole" or put a fish station there or do what is probably best -- leave it as is.

"Round bilge." I have factory floorboards -- so have a flat floor -- unlike other brands, I can toss them out and have a round bilge in 2 minutes if I choose.

When someone lives on that for 3 months and comes back with a glowing review -- then I'll pay attention. Until then, everything is conjecture.

I have to admit the Queen Mary would be easier to live on, but it won't go where I want it to go, do what I want it to do, or trailer with a small vehicle.

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes C-Dory to pop a new top mold with a taller berth and top all the way round. Then we'll have the same modifyable layouts, and all in a boat I can still pull with my Jeep and get into extremely tight spots. You could order a low-house, high-house, or all-around tall-top and get the same great boat and economy. People that want a heavy-duty bruiser type boat will have that choice in the CC -- and everyone wins . . .

I'm guessing it won't take long. Stay tuned.
 
Like I sad earlier,its not so much about the boat and about the style of boating. c-brats, the c-could be for c- dory or cape. It would not offend me in any way shape or boat. we have had orca owners at are event and even one arima I think. My point is that everyone that enjoys campstyle boating is welcome by me.
 
Cape Cruiser comes with a single burner Wallas. Maybe not the best choice for the boat. I installed a single Wallas on my previous 82 Angler. Besides not heating the cabin of an Angler very well it gave me many problems from blown fuses to shutting down for no apparent reason. I only know of one other person with this stove and they also had problems with it.
I have had two boats with the two burner Wallas and have had no problems with them.
If you are considering the Cape Cruiser I would shy away from the single Wallas, even if it did work I don't think it could heat the cabin.

One thing that I am having a problem understanding, if this boat is bigger, wider, heavier and with a bigger engine how does it produce better milage numbers? Are we really saying that the hull is that much more efficient, not sure I am buying that.
 
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