C-dory 16 motor choices

Hi Bob, it is a matter of cost and use. Predictably, the 50 costs more. However, the higher HP on the same block does not occur in outboards until high in the RPM curve. Most people cannot or do not want to run their C-Dory's fast enough to benefit from the extra HP. Therefore, in the speeds that C-Dory's are most often run, there is little to no difference in the 40 and 50 HP motors based upon the same block. With that knowledge, why pay more for something that will not be used?

:cry

Les, Matt, Marc, Jim, Charlie, Sea Wolf Joe, and Dr. Bob, did I get this one right?
 
Sam Walker":1bklpe4x said:
Hi Bob, it is a matter of cost and use. Predictably, the 50 costs more. However, the higher HP on the same block does not occur in outboards until high in the RPM curve. Most people cannot or do not want to run their C-Dory's fast enough to benefit from the extra HP. Therefore, in the speeds that C-Dory's are most often run, there is little to no difference in the 40 and 50 HP motors based upon the same block. With that knowledge, why pay more for something that will not be used?

:cry

Les, Matt, Marc, Jim, Charlie, Sea Wolf Joe, and Dr. Bob, did I get this one right?
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Sam-

It sounds logical to me, and is based on real facts, but only the engine buyers themselves know why they made the choices they did, and the reasons may well vary from person to person somewhat.

Good thinking!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Repowered with a 50 (had a 50 originally). Had the same conversation with the Dealer. Bottom line for me, the 50 will get me out of harms way quicker when harms way comes looking for me!
 
When we bought Crabby Lou, I was a little bit leery of the old two stroke engine. The guy I bought it from said it was the best part, we would find it to be the strongest engine we had ever owned, and I think he was right. The 1991 Johnson 40 two stroke is a near perfect match for our CD16 Angler. I removed the VRO so it will not be tempted to toast itself, and mix 50:1 in two 12 gallon tanks, lots of range. This engine always starts easily, never hesitates, gets up out of the water more quickly than you can believe, and can reach speeds you really do not want to be traveling in a 16 foot boat. I am told this engine can last nearly forever. No oil to change, I have changed the plugs and lubed all the pivot points under the cowling, but that is the only service we have done. I could get a rude surprise tomorrow, but today, I am a happy camper with the old Johnson.
 
In my opinion, selling a new, 40 HP engine on a C-Dory 16 Cruiser benefits the seller more than the buyer.

On our sold CD 16 Cruiser "C-Nile", we had a 40 HP Suzuki, which is a de-tuned 50 HP model. When the boat was properly trimmed, we had no major issues with having only 40 HP. Our normal cruising RPMs were 5400, and we could get approximately 22 MPH with 5 MPG under favorable conditions when the boat was loaded at approximately 2,100 pounds. The key was the trim of the boat.

As everyone knows, the CD 16 Cruiser is stern heavy, which I made more so by having a 4 HP, 4 stroke kicker and full fuel at the stern. There were times when we really needed that extra 10 horsepower to get the boat on plane quicker and to have more power in emergencies. We got around this situation by adjusting the trim of the boat as much as we could by shifting weight forward to under the berth and under the pilot and coplilot's seats. I'm sure a Permatrim would have helped us out, but unlike Honda, our dealer told us that Suzuki will void the entire engine warranty (for us it was 6 years) if we installed a Permatrim. (Frankly, that's a good reason not to go with Suzuki. Honda, for example, does allow hydrofoils, which would have also given us better low speed handling -- particularly in rough conditions.)

So to sum this all up, and based upon my experience -- a 50 HP engine for the C-Dory 16 Cruiser is better than a 40 HP.
 
It is not just CD-16s, CD-22s 90/115, CD-25 135/150. Having upgraded from a 90 to a 115 I think the added cost was worth it for the 25hp. Than there is the E-TEC HO series engines one can consider. Fuel economy is always brought up, you can always throttle down, you can't hp up out on the water
 
Well said Chuck. That's why we selected the Honda BF115 instead of a BF90 on our new Marinaut. We never regretted the decision for the reasons you stated.

Rich
 
bobjarrard":3m2wwvo0 said:
Why do so many 16's have a 40HP when often the same block can be had at 50hp? Bob
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Incidentally, the same relationship exists for the 75hp and 90 hp Hondas, Yamahas, and other brands, used in the CD-22, and some similar motors used in the CD-25 and TomCat boats.

We do hear a lot of "the extra power is there if I need it in an emergency" type of comments made here and there in the various discussions.

Sometimes we also hear that some boats, like the TomCat, run more efficiently at higher speeds where full-planing is possible in moderate and smooth water, indicating a preference for more hp being available, and without running the engine at WOT all the time.

Again, various reasons will be voiced, and the simplest common reason is not a universal explanation. One size doesn't always fit all.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
You're right Joe, one size does not fit all, but when you have minimal horsepower for a boat, it can get a person out of trouble. On our CD 16, I went through the Shinnecock Canal in Long Island with the current ripping in my direction (Fools travel where Angels fear to tread.) The current pushed me right toward the starboard bulkhead of the the canal right at the turn. It took WOT to prevent from hitting the wall as I came literally within inches away from hitting it. I needed that extra 10 HP big time! (I was a novice at the time and now read sources such as NOAA Coastal Pilot 2 before venturing into unknown territory.) There was another case when, also a novice at that time, we went up the face of a 5 or 6 foot standing wave, started to slip backwards, and we applied WOT to keep the stern from slipping back into the water and dowsing the engine. This was another novice mistake, but extra horsepower was necessary then, too.

After 4 year's of experience, I just don't make those kind of rank-amateur mistakes anymore. However, for novice boat owners, as well as experienced ones, I feel that having a little extra horsepower then the minimum can be highly beneficial in certain situations.

Thanks,

Rich
 
bobjarrard":32801ca8 said:
Why do so many 16's have a 40HP when often the same block can be had at 50hp? Bob
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Hi Bob,

To fully answer the question we have to go back to the time when most C-Dory boats were purchased at the factory in Kent from Marben Marine. Initially most boats were powered with 2-stroke Johnson engines but when the 4-strokes became available the factory started offering the CD16 with Honda engines.

Up through 2003 the BF40 and BF50 had different heads and power curves. The BF40 made its peak torque at 3500 rpm while the BF50 did so at 4500 rpm.

Marben Marine felt that given the typical speed and operating characteristics of the CD16 that the torque and power curve of the BF40 made more sense (and I agree). It's the same reason the CD22 came with the BF75 and not the BF90 (more torque at lower rpm). And it didn't hurt that the BF40 was less expensive than the BF50 (same for the BF75 versus the BF90).

That's what set the precedent and a lot of buyers and dealers look to what the factory did and rig the boat accordingly.

The BF40 and BF50 from 2004 and later are mechanically the same and the BF50 started using the same head as the BF40. The BF40 still has its maximum torque at 3,500 and max hp at 5,500 while the BF50 has its max torque at 4,500 and max hp at 6,000 rpm.

Max hp on the BF50 used to be at 5,750 but when they changed to using the same head as the BF40 that resulted in needing a higher rpm to generate the max hp. I suspect at 5,500 the BF50 is likely delivering close the the same hp as the BF40.

And...there's only 2 lbs-ft of torque difference (the BF40 with 46 lbs-ft at 3,500 rpm and the BF50 with 48 lbs-ft at 4,500 rpm).

So...all in all the Honda BF40 is still the better choice for the C-Dory 16 for a boat that's operated in saltwater (or larger lakes) and/or at sea level; and it's still less expensive. This is a technical observation based on the running characteristics of the engines and the hull, what folks want personally is a totally different thing.

Just remember to get the 50-hp out of the BF50 you have to prop the boat to hit redline...and...you have to run it there. Not something that most of us are likely to do so I'd argue that having 50 hp "on tap" as opposed to 40 hp on a CD16 is likely a moot point.

The BF40 is also a more efficient engine using 11.6 oz of fuel per kW-hr as opposed to 11.9 oz per kW-hr. I'll be the first to admit that's not a lot of difference, about 3%, but it all adds up over time.

Also, this only applies for sure to the Honda engines, other manufacturers likely have different "numbers" for their 40 and 50 hp engines so you have to do some research.

Now...glad you asked? :lol:
 
I went with ETEC 50 and I'm not looking back. Best discission I ever made. Less cabin noise, higher top speed, and better fuel economy.

It was more expensive, but the hole shot and instantly on plane for my 16 cruiser, it was worth it!
 
Les,

That's why one size fits all does not always apply as Joe stated and as you pointed out is engine-specific. My perspective was from having the Suzuki engine, which I felt had minimal power when the boat was fully loaded in certain situations such as being too stern heavy, or needing extra power in rare emergencies. Another good case in point is the Honda BF115 you put on our Marinaut. According to Leisure Boating, the Honda BF115 was "...dyno tested and is actually pumping out 126 HP!" (see below url.) Our Marinaut just leaps out of its hole when we go WOT. So you're right: it all depends upon the manufacturer.

http://www.hondamarineknysna.co.za/boat/BOAT TEST - Review of BF115.pdf

Rich
 
That would be why a 40 might be the best 16 Cruiser option in Honda, but that doesn't apply across the board with other brands. You have to do your homework and choose what is right for your personal running pleasure, local marine situations, and pocket book.

My pocket book is a little depleted right now though. :lol:
 
sweet pea":45rvxcrx said:
That would be why a 40 might be the best 16 Cruiser option in Honda, but that doesn't apply across the board with other brands. You have to do your homework and choose what is right for your personal running pleasure, local marine situations, and pocket book.

My pocket book is a little depleted right now though. :lol:
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Absolutely! That's why the following was in my reply:

"Also, this only applies for sure to the Honda engines, other manufacturers likely have different "numbers" for their 40 and 50 hp engines so you have to do some research. "

Les
 
The 2000 honda 40 and 50 hp. have the same cubic inches.Most engines are in family of engines like mercury uses the same 1.7 block to get 75-200hp out of the same block different super charging etc.Honda does it with 115-135-150hp same block different valve adjustments or carburation for older engines .I think if buying new most new buyers would opt for a 50 vs a 40 for only $400-700 more for a new boat monthly payments would not be that much more over a 5 yr period

buying used you buy what is there the 40hp seems to run pretty well. I've been on cd-16 with 40's and some with 50's I really could not tell to much difference unless you open them up WOT
 
I appear to be the odd man out. My 16 came with a Suzuki 60hp and I do not perceive any problems at all. The weight seems to balance nicely and I quite often carry 4 adults with 19 gallons of fuel. It tops out around 32 mph with just me on board and flat water. With the wife and I it runs around 23 - 24 mph at around 4500 rpm.
It comes up on plane nicely without any trim tabs. I also hang a 8 hp Honda off the back. I have not seen another 16 with a 60 and have wondered why.
All in all I love this boat. I have toyed with a 19 or 22 but keep coming back to the ease and great handling of the 16 and decide to stick with it.
No to mention it is dang cute.
 
jennykatz":1qlhes51 said:
The 2000 honda 40 and 50 hp. have the same cubic inches.Most engines are in family of engines like mercury uses the same 1.7 block to get 75-200hp out of the same block different super charging etc.Honda does it with 115-135-150hp same block different valve adjustments or carburation for older engines .I think if buying new most new buyers would opt for a 50 vs a 40 for only $400-700 more for a new boat monthly payments would not be that much more over a 5 yr period

buying used you buy what is there the 40hp seems to run pretty well. I've been on cd-16 with 40's and some with 50's I really could not tell to much difference unless you open them up WOT
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Just because they use the same block doesn't mean they're the same engine. The 2000 Honda BF50 had a different head then the BF40 and produced power in a much different way. For most C-Dory 16's the BF40 is the more (technically) logical choice unless you're going to run at full throttle.

For a new BF40 and BF50 the difference is even more pronounced. The BF50 doesn't pull nearly so well out of the hole and is not as good in the mid-range (around 3500 rpm) and to get 50 hp requires full throttle (at 6,000 rpm), not the way most folks will run a CD16.

Honda does the BF115/BF135/BF150 on a 2.4 liter block, not a 1.7; that makes the Honda BF115 much heavier but also much different than other 115's.

As ever the devil is in the details so it pays to research, you can't judge every book by its cover (or every engine by its hp rating).

That was the point of my long reply earlier.

Les
 
turtleblues":3013n9vu said:
I appear to be the odd man out. My 16 came with a Suzuki 60hp and I do not perceive any problems at all. The weight seems to balance nicely and I quite often carry 4 adults with 19 gallons of fuel. It tops out around 32 mph with just me on board and flat water. With the wife and I it runs around 23 - 24 mph at around 4500 rpm.
It comes up on plane nicely without any trim tabs. I also hang a 8 hp Honda off the back. I have not seen another 16 with a 60 and have wondered why.
All in all I love this boat. I have toyed with a 19 or 22 but keep coming back to the ease and great handling of the 16 and decide to stick with it.
No to mention it is dang cute.
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You can't "legally" run a 60 on the CD16 (they're rated to 55 hp) so that's why they're not included in the conversation here.

Of course, it's a personal choice that anyone can make but a dealer or the factory (unless they re-rate the hull) can't install a 60 hp (or larger) engine.

I might also add that with 4 adults and 19 gallons of fuel along with that Suzuki 60 that you're grossly overloaded according to the capacity sticker, which is the "law" on boats under 20' long and outboard powered. Is your sticker missing?

Les
 
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