Buying used: repower old vs. "newer" used

P

prosimedia

New member
Hello Brats,

As my quest for a 22 cruiser continues, I have a question that I think would benefit from your collective wisdom. When it comes to buying used, what is better: find an older, clean boat and repower (and possibly upgrade electronics) , or buy a newer boat at a much higher price?

I'm just weighing my options, but would appreciate any feedback.

Thanks in advance,

Simon
 
I think it depends on the older boat you have available/in mind and the cost difference.

If you look for used, we have some great collective wisdom here in terms of what to look for. I own a Tomcat but C22 owners could tell you exactly where to look for tell tale signs of such things as water damage for example. (i.e. Fuel tank mounts, keel guard, cabinet mounts in floor, etc.)

I would pull together some data to see what the average difference will be cost wise then look at a few of the used boats to determine if the price difference is worthwhile. I would have NO problem buying a used C-Dory, particularly from an active member here.
 
Only if you buy the boat cheaply enough, or it has low power--for example a 50 hp. As Matt says it depends so much on the boat. It is hard to factor in all of the "extras" which come with a used boat--but here are some to consider:

Wallas stove--$2500, full camper Canvas--$2000, Depth sounder/GPS Combo--close to $1000. Radio and antena--starting at $300, Fenders, dock lines, anchors??? Windlass--$1000 plus. Extra lights, extra fans, interior window covers, extra bilge pumps etc

I sold my first 22 with the thought that the new buyer would repower. This boat had a 1996 Evinrude 90. Well, that engine is still running strong after good use during at least 6 or 7 more years. So why the new engine? Better fuel economy--well it is going to take a lot of use to make up even $1000 worth of fuel--let along $10,000 worth!

So--I am sort of a buy it used if you can type of guy.
 
C-Dory's are cored with end grain balsa, which is fine if the integrity of the hull is maintained. So if you are going to purchase a used C-Dory 22, and there are a lot of good used boats out there, I would ensure that there are no cracks that would otherwise expose the core to water. I had an unfortunate experience of having a hairline crack in the cockpit floor of my CD 16, which allowed water to penetrate (only slightly) to the balsa core. It was quickly repaired by a professional, and when I sold the boat, the buyer received a very well-maintained boat. So what I'm saying is: don't be afraid of used boats, nor of their age. Just ensure through a qualified marine inspector that the boat has been well maintained and free of major issues that could lead to costly repairs.

As for the engine: 4 stroke engines, if well maintained, can give one many hours of engine life. The owner at my former marina told me he had over 7,000 hours on his tender's Suzuki 4 stroke, fuel-injected 70 HP outboard, and that other than maintenance, his only major repair was a starter. I think that with today's fuel that contains 10 percent ethanol, it would be best to have a fuel-injected engine as opposed to ones that are carbureted, which are more prone to fuel-related issues.

Rich
 
Boy, opinions will be all over the map here. So, let me give you my story. As a CD watcher for decades and as I watched my 5 kids grow up and leave home, and retirement was at hand, I planned to strike the CD iron. I didn't retire wealthy, but I did retire with ALL my toys and home and debts at zero. That feeling, is in fact, better than sex. I've always had at least four boats of some type or another. My "big boat" was a mini houseboat and I managed to sell that for twenty plus grand. So, I thought I'd get a CD22 as a retirement present for myself. 7 days after that decision I owned a CD22.

I really wanted to stay in the 20 to 25 grand area for the CD. BUT, every CD I saw listed was no closer than 700 miles to my location in northern Utah. I have a LOT of glass boat experience both salt and fresh water, sail and power, and didn't trust any owner descriptions, and didn't have the time or resources to go check out all of the many CD's that are for sale 700 plus miles away from me at any given time. But I needed immediate gratification. By happenstance, an ad for a 2007 CD22 with twin 50 hp Suzuky's, radar, chart plotters, etc. etc. showed up 100 miles away within 7 days of my deciding to buy one. FOR TWICE the cash I had, but it was geographically close, met all my wishes, and was virtually new having only 50 hours in Florida Salt water and 150 hours on Flaming Gorge reservoir. In other words, it was perfection. Because I had half of the cash needed from the sale of the mini houseboat, and the CD was "perfection" I humbled myself and went into debt for the rest of the cash, and haven't regretted it a bit.

Prior to that time, I've never ever bought anything that didn't need work because I simply never could afford the near new or new. C-crazy didn't need me to lift a finger with one small exception. We put it in the water, everything worked and it needed nothing.

So, bottom line advice from my perspective is, determine how much cash/financing you can put together and buy the best boat you can for that price. I can almost guarantee that if you buy a beater, you will be putting way more money into make it ship shape than you will get out, and that assumes all of your labor is free. You are also at risk when you buy a "CLEAN BOAT." CLEAN is in the eye of the seller who is the only person who knows just how much "cosmetic, curb appeal" work went into the boat to get it sold. So, if you don't know a LOT about glass boats and systems, a qualified full marine survey should be done. Particularly with salt water slipped older boats.

My experience with CD's is limited to one year. Others here are more qualified. But maybe my story can fit into your decision tree as you think seriously about the CD, or any other similar class cruiser.
 
Thanks for detailed replies.

I have done some research on the site about what to look for when buying used. There are some great resources here.

I have owned glass boats before - just sold my 30' pilothouse sailboat which had a solid hull and balsa cored deck. I would imagine, however, that there is a lot more stress on a C-Dory hull due to the lack of stringers and higher speeds and forces associated with bashing into chop. Are cracks in the corners, joints, hull, etc very common?

Thanks,

Simon
 
Actually there are probably more problems with the balsa cored decks than with the bottoms of the C Dories. The reason is that virtually no production boat builder seals all of the hundreds of holes which are drilled into cored decks. Generally there are few holes drilled into the cored bottoms. The boats are solid glass up to about the end of the forward bunk (it may vary from year to year). Delamination is very rare--a bit more common is a small area of water intrusion. This is more likely to happen in a boat which is not kept covered, which is in the more severe climates where there are freeze thaw cycles and where the boat is kept in the water.

Water migration in end grain balsa is often minimal--and if there are screw holes, they can be drilled out, and then filled with thickened epoxy, then re-drilled into the epoxy and the screw re-inserted. Better yet, is to use tabbing with glass and epoxy, rather than replacing with screws. My newer 22 (2006) has less screws in the cockpit than the first 1993 boat I had. The 1993 boat did not seem to have any problems with the balsa core.

Marine survey has been mentioned. Unfortunately there are not all that really good marine surveyors. If you have a survey done, try and find a good surveyor by reputation (belonging to one of the societies is not enough). For a minimal the surveyor needs to understand the proper use of a moisture meter (and even better if he can use ultrasound and FLIR properly--but finding surveyors who have the ultrasound and infra-red instruments and know how to use them are rare.

There are a few stress cracks in the splash wells--in some of the 25's this indicates a potential problem. Stress cracks just aft of the pilot house in the gunnel is common--and due to thick gel coat--and tight radius curves
(My experience with glass boats spans a time of over 60 years)
 
We bought our 2002 tomcat from a reputable dealer (Wefings in Florida). The boat had about 500 hours on the twin Yamaha 115s and came with 2002 electronics. We have spent a little money giving the engines some TLC and that is about it. We use our iPad for navigation and have a portable VHF radio as a backup. Buying the boat used saved us much money and all has turned out well. The boat was my retirement present to myself and I feel that I got more boat by buying used. And I felt more comfortable about buying a used boat far from home because it came from Marc at Wefings.
 
I think your choice might also depend on how much fun you think it might be to refurbish a sound hull vs just buying something ready to go.

I personally think the refurb route would be a blast. Plus you'd learn your boat from top to bottom and be confident about all your components.

jd
 
It seems obvious to say, but the cost of updating the electronics depends not only on how old those on board are, but also to what state of the art you need them to be.

If you're going to operate mostly on inland lakes and rivers, you won't need the same electronics package you would if you're going 30 miles or more offshore after Albacore.

So one of the first things you'll have to determine is just what your needs are going to be, and that might not be such an easy task for someone both new to boating and naval electronics as well as some of the computer borne alternatives.

You could always let the salesman at West Marine or the equivalent show you the latest top of the line goodies, but if you need a good F-150, why pay for an F-22? :lol:

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
When we bought our cd22 cruiser We bought one with all the options I would have bought if new
1 opening front window
2swim step
3windlass

and it had a 50 honda which we sold and bought a 90 suzuki the best motor for my needs cheaper then the others at the time and good dealer network here in Naples fl. I used that boat for 3yrs and sold it for what I paid . and the new owner can probably sell for what he paid.

I think if you find a good hull and the price is right go for it .
dont forget the trailer it is a very important part of the deal . alum is best and any new 4 stroke with good dealer support is what you need .
 
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