Bow Cleat Placement?

[JMacLeod]

I've noticed in some TC owners' photos there is a bow cleat mounted directly behind the windlass.

Ours doesn't look like it has enough free deck space behind the windlass before the angled transition.

Looking around I've seen other bow cleats placed where I circled below.
Any advise for best placement on our tomcat and why?

 

[Gulfcoast John]

John,
I believe the primary purpose of a cleat in any of those areas would be as the tie-off point for a deployed anchor. Even proponents of lots of chain (like me) avoid tying the chain around the cleat...it would tend to scratch up the deck fiberglass and front rubrail, and would have zero give with a wave, wake or current. Not to mention how difficult it is to tie a cleat hitch with ¼ chain. Likewise, don’t use a pin through the bow roller or a ‘chain stop’. You want some shock absorption between your anchor chain and that cleat when anchored. There are multiple ways to skin this cat, we use a 15 ft length of ½’ nylon line (has more stretch than double braid dock line) with a chain hook attached to the chain maybe 3 feet from the boat. You want ‘forged USA G43” chain hook. I’ve got extras if you PM your address. This line is secured to our oddly placed cleat above the boat numbers decal on the port side only.

http://www.c-brats.com/albums/CAT-O-MINE/20140504_4.sized.jpg[img]

We add a few Scandvik mini-snubbers for extra stretch. This line may rub on the front of the boat and on the angled transition, but it won’t scratch. I then let out enough additional chain aft of the chain hook to cantilever to the shallow bottom here in FL, which limits bow wander and tendency to ‘sail’ back and forth in a breeze.

I avoid drilling holes over living spaces as every single one is a potential leak. Of course, mine are right over the berth. I’d say put it over the closed off areas above the sponsons forward of the berth or over the anchor locker to either side of the windlass. I can’t figure how a cleat aft of the windlass would be helpful. Choose a cleat with 2 bolts rather than 4 and the usual epoxy plug after picking out core. I like Six Ten thickened epoxy in a self-metering nozzle via caulking gun to squirt into them thar holes with 100MPH tape on the hole bottom. Others will insist that’s cheating because it’s too easy, and it is.

How are you currently securing your anchor line or chain when anchored?

I just put a beautiful 5 inch tall polished SS Perko bollard on Ebay that would be MORE than adequate.

Happy Drilling!
John

 

[thataway]

On all of our recent C Dorys we have put extra "bow" cleats, outboard between the forward and second rail stanchion. We also add a small SS rub strip there. This allows for bridals as well was dock cleats. When we anchor there is a bridal from each side to the anchor rode--this is thinner 3 strand line--5/16 to 3/8" to take up the shock. Each one is 20' long. A rolling hitch will secure on either the chain or the chain.

You can consider putting these a bit further forward on the Tom Cat, for a better fair lead on the bridal. This is the common anchoring method in cats. This should be a factory installation! I prefer this far more than chocks on the rail. These tend to chafe line, where the cleats do not.

 

[JMacLeod]

How are you currently securing your anchor line or chain when anchored?

So far we haven't anchored anywhere other than dragging it out on the sandbar and letting the windlass hold it.
I believe our rode is 25' of 1/4" chain and 150' of 1/2" 3-strand.
Probably more than sufficient for the Florida Bay, Keys and sandbars, but I'll have to upgrade before any serious trips or deeper reef fishing.

While the primary purpose will be anchoring/mooring in the future, 90% of my current use will be for tying off a bow line/snubber to the trailer when I solo launch.
Seemed a logical idea to tie off directly to the anchor, but found out it's a little too much to ask of the windlass and causes the chain to jump a few links.
I figured I better do the right thing now instead of kick myself later while replacing a busted windlass.

Choose a cleat with 2 bolts rather than 4 and the usual epoxy plug after picking out core.

Thanks. I had been planning to just order the same matching ones the factory used on the rest of the boat, but I'll look into the 2 bolt style as well on your recommendation.

All the locations I was considering are currently over the anchor locker, but I'm not adverse to other locations or adding guides to the edge of the deck if it's more practical.

 

[JMacLeod]

On all of our recent C Dorys we have put extra "bow" cleats, outboard between the forward and second rail stanchion. We also add a small SS rub strip there. This allows for bridals as well was dock cleats. When we anchor there is a bridal from each side to the anchor rode--this is thinner 3 strand line--5/16 to 3/8" to take up the shock. Each one is 20' long. A rolling hitch will secure on either the chain or the chain.

You can consider putting these a bit further forward on the Tom Cat, for a better fair lead on the bridal. This is the common anchoring method in cats. This should be a factory installation! I prefer this far more than chocks on the rail. These tend to chafe line, where the cleats do not.

Thanks for the explanation.
I've been digging through c-brats' albums, but that's not a very common photo angle.
Hadn't considered different anchoring methods for cats versus monos.
Something else to google now as well as bridles.
Cheers.

 

[JMacLeod]

I then let out enough additional chain aft of the chain hook to cantilever to the shallow bottom here in FL, which limits bow wander and tendency to ‘sail’ back and forth in a breeze.

Learned something new.
Nifty trick.
Point goes to the all-chain crowd.

 

[thataway]

Here is a picture of the cleats on the 22; my current 25 has exactly the same layout. I was mistaken in my earlier post; the cleats are in front of the first "foot" of the bow pulpit.



We also use the same 4 bolt cleats for most of the dock tie ups. The amidship cleat is used only rarely as a back up.

 

[JMacLeod]

Here is a picture...

Yep. Still worth a thousand words. :wink: Thanks.

 

[thataway]

While we are at it, note that each bridal line takes a full 360* turn abound the cleat before criss cross turns. This reduces any load on the horn of the cleats, and assures the load is in shear. There are fender washers under the deck. I had to cut a flat on the "inner" side of each washer to get them to fit there because of the spacing of bolt hole pattern. Another option is to make an aluminum or SS plate to go under the nuts and washers under the deck. Use the bolt holes in the cleat as a pattern for spacing of the holes in the backing plate.

 

[JMacLeod]

While we are at it, note that each bridal line takes a full 360* turn abound the cleat before criss cross turns.

To be clear...
The typical cleat hitch is:
under the far horn, under the near horn, cross-over, cross-over again with a twist.

Does 360 degree mean under the horns a third time before the cross-overs and a twist?

 

[ssobol]

While we are at it, note that each bridal line takes a full 360* turn abound the cleat before criss cross turns.

To be clear...
The typical cleat hitch is:
under the far horn, under the near horn, cross-over, cross-over again with a twist.

Does 360 degree mean under the horns a third time before the cross-overs and a twist?

It means a wrap or two around the base of the cleat (under both horns) before the looping and crossing of the horns over the top of the body of the cleat. Which I think is how you are describing it.

 

[hardee]

Not the best shot, but here is how mine are.



Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[JMacLeod]

Apparently all 8-inch stainless steel boat deck cleats are not equal.
The factory cleats on a 2018 Tomcat are Sea-Dog brand, Heavy Duty open base cleats rated for multiple lines.
For comparison, here is a photo with a standard Perko SS cleat, and a generic Amazon/Ebay SS cleat.

After trying unsuccessfully to contact the factory during the covid shutdown, I bought some 8" generics on amazon after reading multiple boating articles on anchoring and mooring based on boat size/cleat length.
I discovered that is a HUGE misconception.
They turned out to be about half the diameter and mass of steel than the original factory cleats of the same length.

After comparing dimensions, I ordered some beefier used SS Perkos off of Ebay hoping they were the right match, but they still didn't measure up to the absolute units that the factory installed.
(NW Marine called me back with the factory brand/specs after I found and bought the Ebay Perkos.)

 

[hardee]

Plenty of differences in Cleat size and mass. I use the center foredeck cleat and tie there for dock mooring on either side.

John, I sure wish I had room for that Sampson Post. I would love the look.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[thataway]

Recently the question was asked about the reason for anchor bridles. This is addressed in a recent free practical sailor article, including a link to stitching vs splicing and types of anchor hook..

This is a very interesting article and combined with issues with bridle hooks and cleats blends well with this older thread. Be sure and check out all of the links in this article for a better understanding. I have never used climbing ropes, but I do see the advantages with longer stretching and elasticity. I often oversew and use heat shrink wrap over some of the splices. With double braid this makes the splice much better, faster and easier.