boat values

[azwiz]

can anyone please tell me why people are asking such high prices for their boats [C Dorys] compared to NADA used retail prices? boats are like autos, you loose big money when you go out the door.

thanks
Steve



http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats

 

[NORO LIM]

The question isn't why sellers are asking a given price. The question is why buyers are paying a given price. Generally, sellers ask somewhere in the market range set by the mutual agreement of buyers and sellers. Of course an individual seller may initially be aiming too high. If so, the boat will sit on the market, or the seller will be willing to negotiate. However, historically, C-Dories have held their value better than average. Many of these boats have been carefully cared for and customized. It's something of a niche market that the Blue Books of the world aren't capable of reflecting.

C-Dories are darn good boats in relatively short supply and often sought out by knowledgeable buyers.

 

[c-ness]

Exactly. It is more about what people are willing to pay. As a consequence, NADA prices do not reflect reality. C-dory boats have been around for many years and there are a fair number of used boats out there. When one comes up for sale most interested parties know about what it will sell for (within reason). Indeed I suspect that very few owners have purchased their used boat anywhere near NADA listed values. When we bought our boat we didn't even bother to check NADA. I could check the listed price but it would be way too low, and I know that I could sell the boat for more (which I do not want to do!!!).

Ok....I just checked, according to NADA the average retail price for a 2002 tomcat is $27,205. We paid a bit more than that for the boat and did so willingly.

 

[tsturm]

can anyone please tell me why people are asking such high prices for their boats [C Dorys] compared to NADA used retail prices? boats are like autos, you loose big money when you go out the door.

thanks
Steve



http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats

Because they have a C-dory & you want one :roll:
If you don't like the price look else where. :wink:

 

[Sea Wolf]

One of the reasons the NADA prices are so far out of line with what the C-Dorys really sell for used, is that the NADA prices are figured on 1.) the original sales prices, 2.) a large initial out the door depreciation, and then 3.) a standard percentage reduction year after year, without figuring in actual recorded sales prices (regardless of what they claim to do!).

The result is ridiculously low NADA values compared to actual sales prices for C-Dorys, sometimes one-half or less for older boats!

And no, we do not let our used C-Dory prices be regulated by NADA!!!

Indeed, one of the problems frequently faced by new C-Dory owners is trying to finance their purchase with a bank that is looking at the NADA figures!

For a look at the asking prices for C-Dorys that have already sold, look at the Market Place Reference here on this site.

But a lot of owners of other brands of boats do definitely ask way too much for used boats, particularly in light of the depressed economy and resulting buyer's market.

Here in Northern California, we get all kinds of folks who ask only slightly less for a used boat than they paid 5, 10, 15 or more years ago! Just another example of "California Dreamin'", I guess! :lol:
(Or just out of touch with reality as to what's happening in the boat market!)

As a further example, I have a 1987 C-Dory 22 Cruiser that I paid $20,500 for in 1998. I have since re-powered it with a new 2005 Yamaha 90 hp EFI 4-stroke motor, and added a lot of customizations and upgrades, such as a windlass, boat heater, etc. I have no doubts about my ability to recover my original investment in the boat, plus, perhaps, somewhat more, despite the boat's age. Such is the fate of being an owner of a classic boat in a niche owners group!

Good Luck in your Quest!

Joe. :teeth :thup

 

[azwiz]

can anyone please tell me why people are asking such high prices for their boats [C Dorys] compared to NADA used retail prices? boats are like autos, you loose big money when you go out the door.

thanks
Steve



http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats

Because they have a C-dory & you want one :roll:
If you don't like the price look else where. :wink:

WOW!! nice attitude! real friendly people! I was just asking a question! if everyone on this forum has an attitude like that maybe I was given the wrong info about c-brats

Steve

 

[Beflyguy]

can anyone please tell me why people are asking such high prices for their boats [C Dorys] compared to NADA used retail prices? boats are like autos, you loose big money when you go out the door.

thanks
Steve
http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats

In an example from the automotive world, my 1989 Vanagon Syncro Westfalia (I could call it the land based C-Dory) Nada shows the average retail as $5,350 and the high retail as 8,450. A nice stock one sells today at four to five times that and mine with numerous upgrades would sell for around $50-60,000. A retailer/restoration specialist in California is getting as much as 10 times what Nada claims.
I can only assume that NADA uses some computer formula to calculate values and that they are out of the loop.

 

[Valkyrie]

Steve,

I have been a member here since 2005 and have an '05 22, as well. About every six months or so your questions comes up from someone not familiar with C-Dory's,so we are used to hearing it. The answers you received are spot-on. Also, many owners pay cash for their boats and those transactions are not reflected in NADA prices.

Right now, if I wanted to, I could sell Valkyrie for about 10,000 less than we paid for her six years ago, which is not something you could do with many other boats. These boats DO hold their value more than many other brands.

As far as your reaction to the other post, please note the emoticon following the one comment -- a smile with a wink!

Regards,

Nick
"Valkyrie"

 

[c-ness]

The Internet is sometimes a difficult means to transmit the emotion behind a statement. I don't believe that anyone here seeks to be mean. They really do want to provide an answer. That is reflected in the number of responses you have already received. One of the very nice thing about the c-brats is that you get an answer so soon and often with much useful information.

With that said we all welcome your questions!

 

[starcrafttom]

steve the guy has a smiley face next to his comment, calm down.

If you are trying to get a loan for a boat and the bank pulls out the old nada boat on you, tell them to put it a way and see if they will except a marine surveyor appraisal. That is what i had to do to buy my 27fter. Nada did not even have it in the book. with the marina survey I was able to borrow the 40k something that I needed on a 1984 boat.

When I sold my 22 the buyer, also named Steve, had to do the same thing in order to get the boat. NADA had the price at 20k less then what i was getting. we had to tell the bank that we needed to go with a appraised value because it was a real boat and not a bayliner.

In the end they lent the money. as long as the loan officer has a piece of paper that shows that that value it equal to or more then the amount lent they are happy because they know nothing about boats at all. I had to walk them thru the process both times.

Do not have the appraiser write up a bunch of safety issues, just the value. tell him / her that its just a value for the bank not for the insurance company. If they have a long list of items the bank will make you go buy all of it before they will lend. they wanted me to prove that I had a anchor??? flares??? horn?? all safety items not on the boat but items I already had in the garage at my house. I had to send them pictures of the items before the would lend??? sounds crazy. as long as the appraiser does not put it on his paper work they will never ask for it them selves.

Good luck and happy hunting.

 

[Sea Wolf]

Hello again!

Here's a response from Les Lampman to a question about boat pricing and values on another thread that is so relevant that I feel it ought to be posted here as well:

Joe. :teeth :thup

have you checked the NADA prices? your price seems really high! even with all the extras 19,000 would be a little more realistic
just saying
Steve

NADA values are a joke regarding C-Dory boats (and most others). I've been at this a long time and boats don't sell for NADA prices. NADA is a dealer organization, it's intended to increase the profits for dealers and to keep financial institutions from loaning too much on a purchase. Hence the values are extremely conservative and not realistic.

There's also a geographic bias since the vast majority of boats are sold in areas where the values are much lower (like Florida) due to boat population and what the environment does to the boats.

NADA also ignores the "home water" affect. A particular boat make/model has a generally higher value in the area where it is produced.

It may be that the asking price of the boat is a bit high but what seller doesn't expect a potential buyer to make a lower offer and so keeps a bit of reserve in the price? But it's a bit high, not $9,000 high. At least not in the Pacific Northwest where this boat is located.

That hull is the same hull that's being produced for the 2012 models so it rides the same, handles the same, and is just as capable. The boat has been repowered with a 4-stroke outboard that has very low hours and will last for many more years. So it's a choice: buy a new one for around $60K to $70K or purchase a used one that will do the same thing for (say) $25K. You can do a lot to upgrade a boat with the 40-some thousand dollar difference.

I don't know the person selling this C-Dory nor do I know the boat. I do know that if you expect to buy a C-Dory for NADA pricing that you'll wait for a darn long time to find one (it can happen, it just doesn't very often).

Just saying...

 

[Jericho]

NADA is low compared to market value on used C-Dory's but if your financing with say 20% down you should still be pretty close to value.

I just sold on 06 22 Cruiser this week and NADA has the boat value for average retail at $19980, the motor at $4700, and the trailer at $2400. Thats a total of $27080.

A lot of people look up NADA but forget that you have to add the motor and trailer values as well as the boat.

 

[Montana Kev]

Hi Steve,

As said earlier I think you may have read into some responses the wrong emotion. This is the friendliest group of people you will ever meet. If you follow this forum for a while you will get to know what I know and that is the people on this forum are a huge reason many of us today own a C-Dory. This forum and it’s owners group may have something to do with why C-Dory boats hold their value so well. I have been rescued by this group in many ways, they will feed you, house you and give you the clothes off their back. Visit this forum often, read it, ask questions and learn more about these great boats, the C-Dory culture and get to know the people here. There are also C-Dory gatherings listed here, try to visit one. The Lake Powell gathering is this month.

Lastly, be sure to look at the market place reference area on this site, it may be helpful on boat pricing - http://www.c-brats.com/viewforum.php?f=38. Feel free to PM or email me with any questions.

Cheers,
Kevin

 

[Chivita]

Steve,

In my humble opinion, there is another aspect of a C-Dory that NADA cannot represent. I have spent some time on the water and in a wide variety of boats. There is a famous saying that the happiest two days of a boat owner's life are the day they buy a boat and the day they sell that boat.

What NADA cannot represent in their price is that for the vast majority of C-Dory owners, selling their boat is not a great day. C-Dorys are kind of like that one dog you had that you know you'll never find again, they have a personality, a competence that you just do not find in an average boat. I doubt that someone who likes high speed big-engined boats would like a C-Dory, the Jet-Ski fanatic and the wake-jumping waterski lover as well probably would get rather bored on a C-Dory. But for a certain portion of boaters, the C-Dory is a emotional thing. Like that dog they are loyal, they don't let you down when things get rough and they forgive you when you don't treat them like a princess.

As such, it can be hard to sell such a friend. For many of us owners, when you have to part with your C-Dory, you really care about the boat and want it to go to a competent new owner. You really want it to go to someone at least as nuts as you are about C-Dorys. You'll often read about friendships between the old owners and the new owners on this site, the length that a new owner will drive to pick up their boat or how the old owner went out of their way to deliver the boat due to the love they still have for their C-Dory.

When I see another C-Dory, I can almost guarantee that the owner is a real stand-up kind of person, that they care more than the average Joe for their boat and for boating in a safe and respectful manner and I know they have the same disease that I do.

As an owner, I realize that there appears to be a steep price to become a C-Dory owner. It would be great if someone would sell you one at a bargain but at least for me, parting with my C-Dory is something I dread. She has never let me down even in the nasty conditions one encounters in SE Alaska. She is a friend, and friends just don't come cheap. NADA is just not set up with this emotional connection in mind.

I wish you luck on your search!

 

[Matt Gurnsey]

Steve- you started with a statement that people should lose money on their boats, and implied that the boats aren't worth what people are asking for them.

I will respond that people are asking what they are because it is close to what others are getting. Pices guides are just that, they are guides, and actual boat prices can vary greatly.

Boats are not cars. There are not a hundred thousand of a model produced each year, and some boats maintain value better than what NADA says they will. NADA is a great source for car values, but a lousey one for boats.

I think that you may want to rethink your approach to potentially buying a C-Dory. Instead of looking at the "book" try looking at what they are actually selling for, because that is the only real measurement of worth.

can anyone please tell me why people are asking such high prices for their boats [C Dorys] compared to NADA used retail prices? boats are like autos, you loose big money when you go out the door.

thanks
Steve



http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats

Because they have a C-dory & you want one :roll:
If you don't like the price look else where. :wink:

WOW!! nice attitude! real friendly people! I was just asking a question! if everyone on this forum has an attitude like that maybe I was given the wrong info about c-brats

Steve

 

[azwiz]

Steve- you started with a statement that people should lose money on their boats, and implied that the boats aren't worth what people are asking for them.

I will respond that people are asking what they are because it is close to what others are getting. Pices guides are just that, they are guides, and actual boat prices can vary greatly.

Boats are not cars. There are not a hundred thousand of a model produced each year, and some boats maintain value better than what NADA says they will. NADA is a great source for car values, but a lousey one for boats.

I think that you may want to rethink your approach to potentially buying a C-Dory. Instead of looking at the "book" try looking at what they are actually selling for, because that is the only real measurement of worth.

can anyone please tell me why people are asking such high prices for their boats [C Dorys] compared to NADA used retail prices? boats are like autos, you loose big money when you go out the door.

thanks
Steve



http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats

Because they have a C-dory & you want one :roll:
If you don't like the price look else where. :wink:

WOW!! nice attitude! real friendly people! I was just asking a question! if everyone on this forum has an attitude like that maybe I was given the wrong info about c-brats

Steve

If you read my statement I did not say people should lose money on their boats, I only stated a fact that like autos boats lose value when they leave the dealer,relax! Being a dealer you know of what I am speaking.
To all the other replies, thanks for the positive responses.
in response to the third reply,, well I guess there is one in every crowd
thanks
Steve

 

[dave]

we had to tell the bank that we needed to go with a appraised value because it was a real boat and not a bayliner.

I love that, Tom.

 

[dave]

In my humble opinion, there is another aspect of a C-Dory that NADA cannot represent. I have spent some time on the water and in a wide variety of boats. There is a famous saying that the happiest two days of a boat owner's life are the day they buy a boat and the day they sell that boat.

What NADA cannot represent in their price is that for the vast majority of C-Dory owners, selling their boat is not a great day. C-Dorys are kind of like that one dog you had that you know you'll never find again, they have a personality, a competence that you just do not find in an average boat. I doubt that someone who likes high speed big-engined boats would like a C-Dory, the Jet-Ski fanatic and the wake-jumping waterski lover as well probably would get rather bored on a C-Dory. But for a certain portion of boaters, the C-Dory is a emotional thing. Like that dog they are loyal, they don't let you down when things get rough and they forgive you when you don't treat them like a princess.

As such, it can be hard to sell such a friend. For many of us owners, when you have to part with your C-Dory, you really care about the boat and want it to go to a competent new owner. You really want it to go to someone at least as nuts as you are about C-Dorys. You'll often read about friendships between the old owners and the new owners on this site, the length that a new owner will drive to pick up their boat or how the old owner went out of their way to deliver the boat due to the love they still have for their C-Dory.

When I see another C-Dory, I can almost guarantee that the owner is a real stand-up kind of person, that they care more than the average Joe for their boat and for boating in a safe and respectful manner and I know they have the same disease that I do.

As an owner, I realize that there appears to be a steep price to become a C-Dory owner. It would be great if someone would sell you one at a bargain but at least for me, parting with my C-Dory is something I dread. She has never let me down even in the nasty conditions one encounters in SE Alaska. She is a friend, and friends just don't come cheap. NADA is just not set up with this emotional connection in mind.

I wish you luck on your search!

Chivita

Your post almost brought tears to my eyes. If I ever sell Cocoon, it will not be one of the happiest days of my life!

 

[Anonymous]

There is no other boat that is even remotely like a C-Dory (22 Cruiser)

For what the C-Dory is, and can do, it is actually a bargain.

Once you have looked at one, then used one, you will probably "get" it.

If you still don't "get" it, no worries, there will be someone to buy your C-Dory and you probably won't lose much, or any money.

Once in a while a good deal comes along (if you can wait for it), be ready, then act fast.

 

[blackfish]

Beflyguy
that's one cool van
it looks amazing for its age
what engine would that rig have
how about heat and cooking wallas?

sorry about the slurred words to many beers after a hot day at work