Boat service

rogerbum":3b1335ji said:
Is it just me or does something seem fundamentally wrong with almost all boat service places (and for that matter most businesses involved with boating)?
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Wow ! Thats one heck of a statement. Fundamentally wrong with most businesses involved with boating?
In my limited experience here in the PNW, I have found all boating places that I have done business with to be a refreshing change from almost any other type of business. They look me in the eye, talk to me like an indivdual, treat me with respect, and are the politest bunch of folks I have had to deal with yet.
Last thing I want to see is these guys ending up like Auto Service. Sorry - couldnt disagree more.
Cheers,
Tom
 
Tom,

Perhaps it IS just me.... but seriously, I separate the "nice folks" part from the "good service" part. I agree that many I have met in the marine industry are incredibly nice. However, every time I go to a marine industry business (with a few exceptions), it's kind of like Hawaii - everything is on "island time" - that's nice every now and then, and almost cute sometimes - until you're in a hurry and then it's just irritating.

As regards my analogy to auto repair, I admit that 20 years ago, I had a hard time finding what I thought was a good, honest mechanic. However, in the past several years I have had nothing but exceptional, on-time, on-budget service with my automobiles (and nothing but long delays with my boat).

I think the best suggestion I have heard so far, is to have two boats so at least one is in service while the other is being worked on.
 
From my experience as a boat mechanic:

Boats are not cars! Cars are so standardized and there are so many that the repairs and repair time can be estimated accurately.

Each boat manufacturer does things differently. The fuel system, electrical system, control cables, steering, instruments, etc. can all be installed in many different ways. In some boats the systems are installed prior to the decks being put on. In that case, it can be very difficult and time consuming to make repairs.

I have had people bring in boats that haven't been run in months, batteries weren't charged, no gas in the tanks, so much personal gear in the boat that I couldn't get to the controls, batteries, etc. to service the systems, no key in the ignition, and so on. The customer hasn't made an appointment and tells me that he is leaving on vacation in a week!

Boats also take more time to service because trailers are not self propelled. In service shops, boats are usually moved by forklift and it takes two people to move the boat, one to drive the lift and one to operate the hitch, block the tires, guide the operator who cannot see behind the boat and so on.

Boat shops are busiest in the spring and summer. If you want major service done, the fall and winter are the best times.

Boat shops are usually smaller operations, run by those friendly people mentioned above. If the shop owner wanted a large highly profitable shop, he would be in the car repair business.

The best advise I can offer is to be a good customer. Make sure that your boat will start, that the batteries are charged, has gas in the tank, key in ignition, make an appointment, AND KEEP IT.

When you find a good shop, buy stuff from them so they can stay in business! Schedule major service during the off season.

Remember, you are going out on the water in your boat. If it doesn't run right or breaks down, you can not only loose your vacation time, but that can PUT LIVES AT RISK!

The marine mechanic thinks about that too. Give him time to do the job right.

One more thing, if you do some work on your own boat and then take it to the shop because your work didn't fix the problem, Please tell the mechanic what you did!! I have wasted many hours because the embarrassed owner didn't tell me that he worked on the boat first.

Good boatin' to yah!
 
Thanks Larry ! There is also a huge problem with finding qualified people to hire in the Marine industry . I send all my service people to schools and it is very expensive . That does not gaurantee they will stay working for you .We cannot possibly afford to stock all the parts for the brands we service for the convenience of our customers . I could hire at least two more mechanics [if I could find them] for the yearly cost of insurance for a boat dealership/service center.Probably three next year. It all seems so simple until you actually experience it !
Marc
 
OK - Larry or Mark -
Let's assume that I had my boat running prior to bringing it in and that I didn't work on it myself and screw it up AND I cleaned it out prior to bringing it in (all true in my case) --- If I were to drop my boat off with either of you two (Larry assume you were still in business) - how long should it take prior me getting a call from you to tell me what you think needs to be done, what it will cost and how long it will take?
 
Roger,

A lot depends on what is wrong.

If you brought your boat in for normal routine service, and had an appointment or came in in the morning, then I would try very hard to get to your boat by noon, find out if its just a lube and oil,etc. or if it has more severe mechanical problems. I would try to call you that afternoon and let you know when the service would be done.

If the problem is more severe, I would give the boat a look over, and let you know that day when I thought I would know more.

Let's say the lower unit won't shift. I would check the control box, and shift cables first. If that doesn't seem to be the problem, then I would have to remove the gear box and tear it down, order parts, and make up an estimate. Then the boat gets parked. When the parts arrive, the gear case gets rebuilt, reinstalled and tested.

In the busy season, Boats come in on Mon or Tues, and most of them should be done and delivered by Friday. When the yard was full we had to stop taking in more work or we couldn't move the boats around to work on them.

Since mechanics don't have x-ray vision, some problems are more difficult than others. Small shops that are swamped tend to get the routine service work in and out and the more difficult repairs take longer. If a major overhaul is needed, that would be put off, sometimes until after the rush, or the customer would be sold a rebuilt powerhead or gearbox.

My experiences were in Southern California and were with 2 strokes and sterndrives. The modern motors may have different problems, but cleaning carbs or replacing waterpumps is the same work. The worst work is diagnosing running problems as they could be carburation, ignition, fuel system, boat related or operator problems. Since mechanics seldom have the time to go out on the water with the owner, some problems can't be duplicated in the shop.

For example, we had an owner whose boat wouldn't pull skiers up 'out of the hole'. It turned out to be an overloading problem in the boat, which pressed the stern so low in the water that backpressure in the exhaust was too high. We raised the motor on the transom and eased the problem somewhat. There was nothing wrong with the motor, just with the operating conditions.

Owners can help by telling the shop what the symptoms are and when they occur. If you think you know the solution and you tell the shop what to do, they might do that and not actually find the cause of the problem.

I think the most important thing is for the shop to be straightforward and honest with the customer. If the shop cannot get to the boat that week, they should say so, then the customer can decide to leave the boat or go elsewhere. A satisfied customer is the best advertising.
 
Larry,

If I ever received service close to what you describe above, I'd be a happy camper. Are you sure you don't want to get back into this business? I'll tow the boat over tomorrow - :lol:
 
It may be that some places give poor service, but I know of at least one that I'll always be grateful to for the service they gave me. That's Somers Point Marina, in Somers Point, New Jersey, http://www.somerspointmarina.com/. In May 2005 I was coming up Chesapeake Bay on my Great Loop trip, and was due for 400-hour maintenance on my twin Hondas. I called a dozen places, from one end of Chesapeake Bay to the other, and couldn't find anybody to do the work. It was spring, and everybody was too busy. But Somers Point got me in, even though they were just as busy as everyone else, and did the service on my engines while I had lunch nearby. And they did a good job, too; I could detect a notable improvement in my engines after. I've always wished I'd called them back later to tell them how much I appreciated that. Maybe this will be a little payback.
 
I agree, if there is trouble shooting invovled it can take a bit longer, and that is understandable, but 4 weeks for a 100 hour service and a few minor items? I mean we are talking about honda's right. And Roger didn't say he was experiencing any problems, sounded more like routine preventative maintenance to me. And if it is going to take that long a phone call should be in order. I am in customer service myself, and that would be totally unacceptable in my feild, to leave someone in the dark for weeks is just plain poor customer service. One thing I keep in mind, is if you give someone good service they will tell a couple people, give someone bad service and they will tell everyone!

$.02
 
Well, I just got off the phone with, the "service center" And after 8 days they still had no idea what the service would cost, they are waiting for costs on parts, and had no idea of a time frame either. On top of it they can't track down the leak and insinuated it was proabably just condensation in the cabin. I said an inch of condensation is alot :amgry . I told them right where the leak is, you can see by the water marks that water is running in from under the floor in the cockpit, and under the door, around the water tank into the cabin, it only gets wet when it rain's alot, and I don't have the boat tilted nose up, but it's a pain to clean up and I feel that area should be sealed and that it should be difficult for water to find it's way forward. I especially do not like the fact that water is running over unbedded screws into the floor which concerns me, I don't need water in the core of the boat, endgrain balsa or not. So after I hung up , I called I-90 marine, who did the work on my previous boat and motors. They gave me a quote while on the phone, for parts and labor, and said if dropped off on a monday I should have it back by friday, Also the guy was very honest and said in the heat of summer they can get backed up two to three weeks. But they would advise you if that was the case. Well, when I finally get the quote, if it's alot more $. I will give I-90 a shot. They also service honda's, and Merc's and Yami's. Just an FYI.

Sark
 
Cutty Sark:

I too have a 2006 22' cruiser and had a cabin leak I chased for almost a year before I found it. It came out from the area of the cabin bilge pump, water was always just outside the "bowl" that pump is in. I noticed it coming under the plywood rear seat support. This sounds a lot like your leak. I finally found it!!! I took the water tank out and saw immediately that the nut securing the air vent to the water tank was not tight. There was an obvious water line down the cabin wall. when I chaeck I found the nut was barely hand tight and no sealant had been used on the inside. Cap Sante Marine is going to do the $611 warranty service to fix it (they ground out some of my glass to make a pocket for the nut after mis drilling the vent hole :amgry ).

Maybe this will help.
 
hmm... sounds just about exactly what I have been experiencing. I see the water around the bowl for the bilge pump. I will give them a heads up, if they can't find it I guess I will start taking things apart and see for myself. So let me get this straight all the water is from the tank? Did Cdory take care of the warranty work?

Sark
 
Cutty Sark,

Here's the whole sequence: 1st day on the water, new boat, approx. 1 cup of water on cabin floor when back to the dock. cleaned up, checked next trip, same thing, tightened foot pump from water tank, thought that was it. That seemed to help for a while. Noticed water outside of the bilge pump "bowl" port side, behind the wooden shroud for the bilge pump bowl, rusting ell bracket, drained/cleaned bilge bowl, did inside/outside with 5200, 5200 on joint where plywood shroud meets cabin floor. Thought that was it. Seemed OK for a while. Noticed cabin rug was damp after sitting outside the house with no in the water travel. Pulled it up, water on floor. :amgry :amgry .

Boat stored outside house, kept rug up to chase the water leak. Just happened to notice a slight water track coming under the plywood base, port side aft dinette seat approx 12 inches forward of bilge shroud. opened under dinette table storage a little water there, evidence of water there more than once. Thought it might be the clamps on the water line from tank to pump or to the water level tell-tale. Took out the angled base for the storage compartment under the aft dinette seat. Could feel water on cabin floor, saw rusting ell brackets. Couldn't see or get to the clamps to inspect/tighten. Cut the two lines beside the bilge bowl and took the whole water tank out. As soon as I got it out I immediately saw a water stain line coming down the cabin wall from the water tank air breather fixture to the cabin floor. Checked and saw that the breather hole had been cut so high that the nut to secure it would not fit in the space available. Some fine craftsman had then ground out glass just above that hole, to the core!!, to make room for the bolt. Practiced anglo-saxon vocabulary. Started to take nut off to assess and repair. Nut was barely finger tight. No wrench needed to get it off. Lock washer but no sealant on the inside of the cabin wall so with little or no compression of the rubber gasket on the outside of the cabin wall where the breather tube exits, I surmise that water from rain, dew, spray, etc, seeped behind gasket, down wall to cabin floor. Took the part out, cleaned, dried both inner and outer surfaces, taped over hole through cabin wall sprayed water on outside of cabin wall and waited. No water down the wall. left for a couple of weeks. No water down cabin wall. Noticed an opportunity for seepage where the cabin aft bulkhead is glassed to the cockpit sole (you'll see the line where the smooth cabin bulkhead meets the rough cockpit sole), so for belt and suspenders, ran a bead of 5200 across the entire beam where those two join plus on the inside bulkead wall back by the port side where the bilge bowl is glassed in. Everything seems completely dry now. Took photos to Les at EQ who forwarded them to C-Dory and got instructions to take the boat the a local marine service center (Cap Sante marine) to get an estimate. Estimate $611+. Waiting for C-Dory to OK before I get the work done. Put the boat back together without the water tank while I wait as I'm not going to let any delay get in the way of my boating. I will try to post the photos I took on the C-Cakes photo album. They're not too clear but you'll see what I'm talking about. Hope this helps.
 
Sounds pretty similar, except I get more water when it rains but in the same area's, I get water under the step inside of the door that flows out and down through the cabinet under the wallas and then out of the hole where the foot pump is. Also notice water behind the water tank and down through the under seat storage on the water tank side. I don't think it is the water tank. I 'm betting on where the bulkhead and cockpit floor seam meets. I told the guy as much, but he kept talking about the rub rail leaking, which I did have a problem with but was taken care of when Cdory did my 20 hour service. All I know is it is not just condensation, way too much water for that. Hopefully they will actually take that area apart and get to the problem. If not I will start taking it apart myself, and see what I find. Thanks for the heads up though.

Sark
 
Sark,

I had a similar leak that took awhile to find. Mine was due to a lack of sealant around the fill cap for the water tank. When the boat is at rest in water, it tilts such that a little water pools in that area. If you look at the part of the boat you can step on as your going forward from the cockpit, at the end of the non skid area, there's a little rise in the fiberglass that's designed to keep all the rain water that hits the side of the boat from running into the cockpit. Water pools in front of that step up. Problem is, the fill cap to the fresh water tank is right there. If it's not sealed, a lot of water can come in during a rain storm.
 
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