I've noticed a slight list on my mooring on the port side. I know there is more weight due to the water tank and gear I have stored under my dinette but my real concern is water under the cock pit decking. Last season when I was drilling a hole for a new bilge point I had water start to spurt out of the hole when the drill broke through the liner. I contacted my dealer Y-marine and they said there should be a drain hole in the bilge for water to get out from under the decking. The only way I could drill the hole was to go through the drain plug when the boat was on the trailer. I did this and a lot of water drained out. However maybe stupidly I never plugged that hole. In July I had a battery problem and the boat cockpit filled a little with water. What I'm wondering is can water be entraped under the liner and water log structural members or is the hole to small that I put in to completely drain the area under the liner? I'm thinking of installing a inspection hatch. How much water can get in the void and is it possible that it's causing the list? Thanks for any input.
Boat listing on mooring
- Thread starter Rich
- Start date
Rich,
This is an interesting dilemma, I’ve not seen a drain hole in the bilge area to drain water from under the liner; I’ll be interested to hear comments from others who have the cockpit liners.
The factory told my once the bilge area in these lined boats should have no air pockets, I asked because I wanted to place a through hull transducer here. This summer I placed the transducer in the area and it worked great…have not permanently installed just filled the area with water and tested it out. So if you where drilling in this area for a new bilge point you shouldn’t have it a gusher.
After a heavy rain this summer while my boat was sitting on the trailer water accumulated in the cockpit up the cabin…I didn’t have it jacked up enough…I noticed small bubbles popping up next the cabin. I jacked up the boat to drain the water than let it back down again, a small amount of water came out of a micro hole below the door. Put my shop-vac on it tell no visible water appeared and re-sealed the entire seam where the liner meets the cabin.
Now you have me concerned that perhaps there’s more water under the liner, and if so I’ll need to drain it before the winter freeze.
Where exactly did you drill the whole, I assume it was in the bilge area directly opposite the drain hole…how big of a whole did you drill and how far up was it?
:shock:
Jay
This is an interesting dilemma, I’ve not seen a drain hole in the bilge area to drain water from under the liner; I’ll be interested to hear comments from others who have the cockpit liners.
The factory told my once the bilge area in these lined boats should have no air pockets, I asked because I wanted to place a through hull transducer here. This summer I placed the transducer in the area and it worked great…have not permanently installed just filled the area with water and tested it out. So if you where drilling in this area for a new bilge point you shouldn’t have it a gusher.
After a heavy rain this summer while my boat was sitting on the trailer water accumulated in the cockpit up the cabin…I didn’t have it jacked up enough…I noticed small bubbles popping up next the cabin. I jacked up the boat to drain the water than let it back down again, a small amount of water came out of a micro hole below the door. Put my shop-vac on it tell no visible water appeared and re-sealed the entire seam where the liner meets the cabin.
Now you have me concerned that perhaps there’s more water under the liner, and if so I’ll need to drain it before the winter freeze.
Where exactly did you drill the whole, I assume it was in the bilge area directly opposite the drain hole…how big of a whole did you drill and how far up was it?
:shock:
Jay
Good hearing from you Jay, beautiful place you live in been there a number of times.
There was definetly an air pocket under my bilge it was like drilling sheet metal it gave after it penetrated the liner. Last year when I asked the dealer he said that the factory was forgetting to put drain plugs in. The hole I drilled was about 5/16. I had to use a drill extension through the drain hole. I drilled it as low as I could in the step down to the bilge. I'm going to see if I can get an angle drill in there and put a 3/8 NPT in. That wouldn't drain anything under the bilge or the gas tanks though so I may have to figure a way to pump it out. My real concern is that something could get waterlogged under the liner(I don't know whats under there). Thats why I mentioned putting a inspection hatch in to really dry out the void under the liner.
I thought that the water coming out of my bilge screw was from condensation because it stopped after awhile. But this winter When I stepped on the cockpit floor I heard ice cracking. I had sealed the area between the cabin and the liner with 5200 but may have to do a total reseal. I tried contacting my dealer Y-landing earlier in the summer but couldn't get him to call back. I sent a email to c-dory too. With the warranty gone I figure I'm on my own. Love the boat just a couple of problems.
There was definetly an air pocket under my bilge it was like drilling sheet metal it gave after it penetrated the liner. Last year when I asked the dealer he said that the factory was forgetting to put drain plugs in. The hole I drilled was about 5/16. I had to use a drill extension through the drain hole. I drilled it as low as I could in the step down to the bilge. I'm going to see if I can get an angle drill in there and put a 3/8 NPT in. That wouldn't drain anything under the bilge or the gas tanks though so I may have to figure a way to pump it out. My real concern is that something could get waterlogged under the liner(I don't know whats under there). Thats why I mentioned putting a inspection hatch in to really dry out the void under the liner.
I thought that the water coming out of my bilge screw was from condensation because it stopped after awhile. But this winter When I stepped on the cockpit floor I heard ice cracking. I had sealed the area between the cabin and the liner with 5200 but may have to do a total reseal. I tried contacting my dealer Y-landing earlier in the summer but couldn't get him to call back. I sent a email to c-dory too. With the warranty gone I figure I'm on my own. Love the boat just a couple of problems.
Fellow Doryanders,
I would suspect that there is nothing under your liners that would rot, but if water is getting traped there and was allowed to freeze, it could cause a few cracks in the gelcoat on the liner it's self. Check at WM for a selection of drain plugs and if you have to do as others have already indecated they have done and drill a hole inline with the transom drain hole.
I would not worry about it being so low as to make it impossable to drill, as long as it would allow only a few cups of water to remain.
As to the listing problem at mooring, it doesn't take but about 10 lbs of gear stored on one side to make a C-Dory list in the first place. So unless you are seeing water acumelate over the cockpit deck, I would not be overly concerned about the listing of your boat by only a few inches.
I would suspect that there is nothing under your liners that would rot, but if water is getting traped there and was allowed to freeze, it could cause a few cracks in the gelcoat on the liner it's self. Check at WM for a selection of drain plugs and if you have to do as others have already indecated they have done and drill a hole inline with the transom drain hole.
I would not worry about it being so low as to make it impossable to drill, as long as it would allow only a few cups of water to remain.
As to the listing problem at mooring, it doesn't take but about 10 lbs of gear stored on one side to make a C-Dory list in the first place. So unless you are seeing water acumelate over the cockpit deck, I would not be overly concerned about the listing of your boat by only a few inches.
Thanks for your input Papillon but I'm still concerned. I had my 3.5 dinghy motor on the starboard side and it still listed which is what got me worried to begin with. I also had issues on a Whaler with an open bilge to the hull void which was packed with foam. Do you know what is under the liner? Also that drain hole can't get all the water out but you may be right that it is too little to worry about.
Rich,
If in fact you do have a small cavity under the bilge sump and below the fuel tanks it can’t be much, these are the areas that supposable make full contact with the hull. It would be great to see some photos or a diagram to help clarify where the voids are, this would certainly help in determining where to place and inspection hatch.
I will take a look tonight and see if indeed there is a drain hole back there, if not perhaps I’ll drill a hole to see if anything comes out…I’ll have the winter to figure out how best to plug it.
I was going to PM you but figured posting here may draw more Brats into the conversation with helpfull knowledge on the subject.
If in fact you do have a small cavity under the bilge sump and below the fuel tanks it can’t be much, these are the areas that supposable make full contact with the hull. It would be great to see some photos or a diagram to help clarify where the voids are, this would certainly help in determining where to place and inspection hatch.
I will take a look tonight and see if indeed there is a drain hole back there, if not perhaps I’ll drill a hole to see if anything comes out…I’ll have the winter to figure out how best to plug it.
I was going to PM you but figured posting here may draw more Brats into the conversation with helpfull knowledge on the subject.
I just heard from Seasport boats. I had contacted them earlier today.
Scott Boysen the VP responded to my email he asked me for specs on the boat. He said he would try to help but its only been 6 weeks since they aquired Fluid. I asked him for a drawing of the liner installation. I'll keep you posted
Scott Boysen the VP responded to my email he asked me for specs on the boat. He said he would try to help but its only been 6 weeks since they aquired Fluid. I asked him for a drawing of the liner installation. I'll keep you posted
I just talked to Seasport about the water under the cockpit liner. There is foam under the liner and because it froze he beleives the foam has broken down and absorbed water. He's not a fan of using foam in the way Fluid Marine had done and in the new boats he's using stringers for support. Also he doesn't beleive the water will drain completely out the rear drain because of the way the foam was installed. There may be pockets around the foam that can't be drained. He agreed with me that putting a inspection hatch in was a good idea. I'm going to put a 6" one in at the middle of the cockpit(Seasport recommendated location) and try pumping the water out and also removing as much of the waterlogged foam as possible. At about 8lbs a gallon the water could very well be causing my list. Kind of a bummer having this problem, caused by poor manufacturing methods, on a 2 year old boat that, at this point, has no warranty. On the other hand Scott at Seasport was very helpful, got back to me right away and wants me to tell him how I make out. So my slight
Glad to hear Seasport is listening to our concerns. My understanding was Fluid Marine used closed cell foam so wouldn’t think it would absorb much water; it will be interested to know what you find through an inspection hatch.
I looked last night and there’s no drain hole, so will run a drill through to see if anything comes out. I see what you mean about not being able to drain all the water under the fuel tanks; they do indeed have a hollow void below them. I was thinking of drilling two holes toward the stern on both sides of the bilge sump to help drain that area, but only if I encounter water where you drilled.
I looked last night and there’s no drain hole, so will run a drill through to see if anything comes out. I see what you mean about not being able to drain all the water under the fuel tanks; they do indeed have a hollow void below them. I was thinking of drilling two holes toward the stern on both sides of the bilge sump to help drain that area, but only if I encounter water where you drilled.
Rich,
Just a thought...based on the small amount of cubic footage that would be involved, you might want to drill that drain hole and put a good size wet/dry shop vac on the hole...and pull a vacuum on the interior of the liner. You may be pleasantly surprised , and find very little water or if you do have substantial water...it will help remove it better then just gravity.
If they did use close cell foam as they should have....Then you would have very very little absorbtion.
Just a thought...based on the small amount of cubic footage that would be involved, you might want to drill that drain hole and put a good size wet/dry shop vac on the hole...and pull a vacuum on the interior of the liner. You may be pleasantly surprised , and find very little water or if you do have substantial water...it will help remove it better then just gravity.
If they did use close cell foam as they should have....Then you would have very very little absorbtion.
The way Scott at Seasport explained if water freezes in the foam it basically destroys the structure of the material I'll have to see when I look in there. Are you sure they used closed cell foam Jay? Also Jay he told me that water may not drain out the back and actually recommended I put a drain toward the front. I hope I'm surprised Papillon thanks for your optimism. I was intending to get a pump in there my concern is the way Scott described the construction.
If your boat and mine are both 07s than C-Dory marine manufactured them, not Fluid Marine; it was C-dory marine I contacted about dead space under the cockpit....hard to keep track when ownership of my 3 year old boat changes hands each year.
Don’t recall who I talked to but he was quite knowledgeable on the subject and said they used high density foam in the transom and under the cockpit.
Of course none of this matters if water gets in and obliterates the foam through freeze/thaw cycles, what a quagmire!
Don’t recall who I talked to but he was quite knowledgeable on the subject and said they used high density foam in the transom and under the cockpit.
Of course none of this matters if water gets in and obliterates the foam through freeze/thaw cycles, what a quagmire!
CaptainRon
New member
About 6 months ago, I noticed a substantial crack developing between the rear cabin bulkhead and the cockpit floor. After probing the crack, I located a rather large hole that could allow significant amounts of water to seep in to the void under the cockpit floor. I dipped a piece of dowel through the hole and it was wet. So, I cut 2 separate 4" inspection hatches (with o ring lids) to drain and ventilate the floor area. The first one I cut in to the flat area immediately in front of the bilge. Since I didn't know exactly what was under there, I drilled a pilot hole first. Imagine my surprise when the water spurted about 4 inches in the air. There is only about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch clearance between the floor and hull in my boat so I had to be real careful with the hole saw. When I finished the cut out, the area drained for about 15 minutes and I would guess that at least 10 gallons of water drained out. I then cut another inspection hatch into the center of the cockpit floor about 12 inches behind the rear bulkhead. Be advised that in my boat there was a foam stringer located off center to starboard. The area under the floor was open in the center and foam was poured along the edges for support. The floor was balsa cored so the opening was coated with epoxy and the inspection hatch was bedded and screwed in place. I repaired the crack and let the area dry out. However, the area never totally dried out due to water constantly draining out of the foam. This winter I'll keep the hatches open and covered with screen so it can dry out totally.
Captain Ron thanks for taking the time to recount your experiences with this problem. Did you find a lot of water under the second hatch you drilled? What was the condition of the foam was intact and just full of water? Could you tell if there were any voids where the water could be trapped? Also do you think I should put in 2 hatches in the same location as yours?
I agree that you need to put a vacuum system to get all of the water out (better than drilling a bunch of holes, in the floor)--once you get any water out--then any way that water can get between the liner and hull needs to be filled--but I also agree that you need to have some way to check peroidically--such as an inspection plate. There are some inspection plates which are water tight, and that would be best.
CaptainRon
New member
Hi Rich,
To answer your questions, yes, I did find a lot of water that remained in the area of the second inspection port (behind the main cabin bulkhead). I removed it with a shop vac and a sponge. However, water continued to collect there for several days. The foam was still intact but I was able to remove some of the foam from the side of the floor area for examination purposes. It was totally water logged. I squeezed the water out, just like a sponge. I left the piece of foam sit on my work bench and it was completely dry the next day. By the way, the foam did not look like the two part foam I've previously used in marine applications. I also believe that more water is trapped on the other side of the stringer and that's probably the water I continue to remove from the rear inspection port area. As for cutting holes in the floor, it's the only way I know to introduce enough cross flow so air can be forced into the cavity to promote drying of the foam.
At this time, we have seen no water in the vicinity of the front inspection port and just a small amount around the rear one. I do like the recommendation you received from the gentleman at the factory. If I had not underestimated the amount of water under the floor, I would have installed one inspection port in just that location. Good luck with your repair.
To answer your questions, yes, I did find a lot of water that remained in the area of the second inspection port (behind the main cabin bulkhead). I removed it with a shop vac and a sponge. However, water continued to collect there for several days. The foam was still intact but I was able to remove some of the foam from the side of the floor area for examination purposes. It was totally water logged. I squeezed the water out, just like a sponge. I left the piece of foam sit on my work bench and it was completely dry the next day. By the way, the foam did not look like the two part foam I've previously used in marine applications. I also believe that more water is trapped on the other side of the stringer and that's probably the water I continue to remove from the rear inspection port area. As for cutting holes in the floor, it's the only way I know to introduce enough cross flow so air can be forced into the cavity to promote drying of the foam.
At this time, we have seen no water in the vicinity of the front inspection port and just a small amount around the rear one. I do like the recommendation you received from the gentleman at the factory. If I had not underestimated the amount of water under the floor, I would have installed one inspection port in just that location. Good luck with your repair.
Thanks Captain Ron for the information it has been very
helpful for me and I'm sure other owners dealing with this factory
defect. I'm kind of torn between hauling the boat and working
on the problem or spending another month on the water. This
boat really extends the New England season and I'm loving the
fall.
helpful for me and I'm sure other owners dealing with this factory
defect. I'm kind of torn between hauling the boat and working
on the problem or spending another month on the water. This
boat really extends the New England season and I'm loving the
fall.
I jacked up the front of the trailer tonight and drilled a ¼” hole into the liner through the drain hole....Low and behold a steady stream of water started coming out but stopped with only about ½ gallon in the bucket I placed below the drain hole.
Figure the reason I didn’t get much water was because my boat always has the camper back zipped up on it when parked in the yard, and with the stern down, and when we're out on the water the canvas top never comes off.
I enlarged the hole to ½ inch with a wood bit, only thing I had that would chuck up in the drill extension. Not sure why I did that...now I’ll have to figure out a way to plug her up.
So with that done I’m content to just periodically pull the liner plug occasionally throughout the season and check for water. I don’t think the amount of water that came out caused any damage under the liner, heck it could have been just an accumulation from condensation for that matter.
What the factory should have done is allowed for some ventilation on top of the liner up under the gunwales, maybe there are.
At this point I’m satisfied things are hunky-dory.
Jay
Figure the reason I didn’t get much water was because my boat always has the camper back zipped up on it when parked in the yard, and with the stern down, and when we're out on the water the canvas top never comes off.
I enlarged the hole to ½ inch with a wood bit, only thing I had that would chuck up in the drill extension. Not sure why I did that...now I’ll have to figure out a way to plug her up.
So with that done I’m content to just periodically pull the liner plug occasionally throughout the season and check for water. I don’t think the amount of water that came out caused any damage under the liner, heck it could have been just an accumulation from condensation for that matter.
What the factory should have done is allowed for some ventilation on top of the liner up under the gunwales, maybe there are.
At this point I’m satisfied things are hunky-dory.
Jay