Boat Handling / twin or single outboard
- Thread starter wylie
- Start date
matt_unique
New member
Twins offer a few advantages including power plant redundancy and the ability to turn on a dime. I believe in the concept of having more than one of anything critical.
Many with a single have a 2nd engine in the form of the kicker; some of us have a single engine with a kicker of the same size
I operate both single and twin engine vessels and I definitely prefer the maneuverability of twins.
Many with a single have a 2nd engine in the form of the kicker; some of us have a single engine with a kicker of the same size
I operate both single and twin engine vessels and I definitely prefer the maneuverability of twins.
I would think that any advantage with twins, docking, or any tight maneuvering, would be minimal on the 22 vs the same setup on a Tomcat. The engines are too close together to offer much of an advantage on the 22.
So far, my only dislikes about our twins is the controls, and lack of room for a swim platform. There's not enough room, in my opinion, for the twin controls in a 22, tilting/trimming via our factory Honda controls requires 2 hands, for me anyway.
That being said, if I ever re-power our 22...it'll be with twin EFI 50's, unless I take the time to erase the evidence of the previous twin mounting holes in the transom, simply installing sealed bolts in the holes would drive me nuts! If I ever own another C Dory, it'll be a single with a (smaller :lol: ) kicker.
So far, my only dislikes about our twins is the controls, and lack of room for a swim platform. There's not enough room, in my opinion, for the twin controls in a 22, tilting/trimming via our factory Honda controls requires 2 hands, for me anyway.
That being said, if I ever re-power our 22...it'll be with twin EFI 50's, unless I take the time to erase the evidence of the previous twin mounting holes in the transom, simply installing sealed bolts in the holes would drive me nuts! If I ever own another C Dory, it'll be a single with a (smaller :lol: ) kicker.
Captains Cat
New member
I've had twin 45s on a CD22 and now have twin 115's on a TC255. Have had to make a long distance (15+ mile) transit on both with one engine down. If I just had a kicker, I think I'd still be out there....not unsafe but if I wanted to go that speed, I'd have kept one of our sailboats! :wink: Actually we did keep one but you'll note it's called SALLY'S CHOICE!! :lol:
As for maneuvering, for sure the TC is better with the widely spaced engines but on the 22, it's pretty good too. You need to practice, in calm water first but then as you get more proficient, it'll come naturally in even windy conditins.
Having conned (driven) both single screw destroyers and frigates and twin screw ones, I will never have anything but twins.
Charlie
As for maneuvering, for sure the TC is better with the widely spaced engines but on the 22, it's pretty good too. You need to practice, in calm water first but then as you get more proficient, it'll come naturally in even windy conditins.
Having conned (driven) both single screw destroyers and frigates and twin screw ones, I will never have anything but twins.
Charlie
I have never had a C-Dory with a single, but have driven on occasionally. I know I prefer the twins, and rarely are they not more maneuverable. It might be better if they were set wider, and I would do 50 EFI next time around, and I agree with Charlie, Lots of boats have twins, (or duals) they just don't all have them the same size.
One caveat, Twins come pretty close to double the bill at the mechanics shop, But as for me and my house, We like the duplicate redundancy of the twin dual OB's and hope to never have to limp home. On the single side, my friend who has a single and no kicker says he flew a single engine plane for many years and it didn't have a kicker either. take care of it and it will take care of you
Harvey
SleepyC
One caveat, Twins come pretty close to double the bill at the mechanics shop, But as for me and my house, We like the duplicate redundancy of the twin dual OB's and hope to never have to limp home. On the single side, my friend who has a single and no kicker says he flew a single engine plane for many years and it didn't have a kicker either. take care of it and it will take care of you
Harvey
SleepyC
matt_unique
New member
snal":123vhi3b said:
Hi Larry,
Side by side twins take longer to react than those spread farther apart but they still offer enhanced tight quarters maneuvering. I run a 32', 40 passenger vessel with twin 90's (both RH) side by side and she will turn on a dime, if a bit slowly
Though certainly the farther apart the faster they will react.I think about some of the seas and current I cruise in and shudder to think of trying to limp home on a kicker. I can actually plane off on a single engine with the Tomcat but would ONLY do so if it were a life threatening situation. To have 1/2 your horses available to push you through some junk to get home is a good thing.
smittypaddler
New member
When I bought Na Waqa in 2004 I got twin Honda 40s for safety; one engine dies, I can still make port. But since I've learned from experts that I'm not as safe as I thought. Most engine failures are related to bad fuel, and in my case the same gas tanks feed both engines. BTW, I have over 800 hours on the engines, and have never had to run on one due to an engine failure, though I have run on one to save gas; 3.75 mpg on two engines at 20 knots, 7 mpg on one engine at 6 knots.
Regarding maneuverability, I usually put one in neutral when docking, so I don't get confused trying to deal with two throttles. True, it'll turn on a dime by putting one engine in reverse, the other forward, but I can do almost as well on one engine, alternating forward and reverse with the spin of the wheel in between.
The extra maintenance costs are substantial. My 100-hour cost $800!
Regarding maneuverability, I usually put one in neutral when docking, so I don't get confused trying to deal with two throttles. True, it'll turn on a dime by putting one engine in reverse, the other forward, but I can do almost as well on one engine, alternating forward and reverse with the spin of the wheel in between.
The extra maintenance costs are substantial. My 100-hour cost $800!
Much can be and has been said about whether either set up is actually better. With twins the boat will spin in circles in its length, but a mix of current and a gust of wind can sure ruin your want to do plans quick or for that matter just current or wind can.
The past four days spent time on Yellowstone Lake with Jody Kidd and his Voyager and must say the Suzuki 115 main with the 9.9 matching kicker and swimstep sure looked good to me. If I have to repower will likely go with the twins again mainly for what Snal said, "the mounting holes" and over all I still prefer the twin look.
Made it from Juneau to Skagway Alaska on one twin Honda 40 and that can be a rough 90 mile stretch of water. The Honda 40 that was running had the charge coil out so the battery for the house was running off the Honda 2000 generator. Don't think I would have tried that on a Kicker. Though I think there's a very limited number of us that would have tried it either way for good reasons.
The extra maintenance cost for us has not been that big of deal due to in the 1000 hours we have put on the motors they have never been to the shop for professional care. Though I'll take the word of the one's who have that its pricy. The previous owner when it was the Puffin had put about 200 hours on it with considerable shop time and serious expense due to water coming in the fuel tank vent in rough seas. This was a factory defect which was resolved.
Jay
The past four days spent time on Yellowstone Lake with Jody Kidd and his Voyager and must say the Suzuki 115 main with the 9.9 matching kicker and swimstep sure looked good to me. If I have to repower will likely go with the twins again mainly for what Snal said, "the mounting holes" and over all I still prefer the twin look.
Made it from Juneau to Skagway Alaska on one twin Honda 40 and that can be a rough 90 mile stretch of water. The Honda 40 that was running had the charge coil out so the battery for the house was running off the Honda 2000 generator. Don't think I would have tried that on a Kicker. Though I think there's a very limited number of us that would have tried it either way for good reasons.
The extra maintenance cost for us has not been that big of deal due to in the 1000 hours we have put on the motors they have never been to the shop for professional care. Though I'll take the word of the one's who have that its pricy. The previous owner when it was the Puffin had put about 200 hours on it with considerable shop time and serious expense due to water coming in the fuel tank vent in rough seas. This was a factory defect which was resolved.
Jay
Over the years that our Owner's Group site has been in existence, numerous (and I emphasis numerous!) threads have been posted with lengthy discussions regarding twins vs. single engines.
Yes, the twins do provide some added maneuverability characteristics (even placed close together as on the 22' C-Dory).
There are valid "arguments" for either choice and that is entirely up to the discretion/likes/dislikes of each individual owner/operator.
Personally, I like and enjoy the twins and the majority of time when docking, my engines are placed dead center and all my maneuvering into the dock is accomplished by manipulating the two engine controls. In wind and current, I feel that this provides me with some extra options to counteract those forces that I would not have with a single, and if I wish to operate the vessel as I would with a single, I am still able to do that. (Obviously, it takes a bit of practice to make the twins work for you....but then again it takes practice with a single as well).
When I'm at work, our Rescue/Fire boat is a single outboard and I am able to accomplish successful maneuvering with it as well, although when operating the deck gun, I absolutely wish that it was rigged with twins to counteract the lateral forces of the water stream from the monitor.
I would suggest that folks interested in pursuing the pros/cons of each, search the archives of this site.
Years ago, Les of EQ Marine wrote a lengthy well composed article on the subject which outlined pros and cons of each.
(This site has many strong opinions....(imagine that... :roll: ) about the subject. The bottom line is....it is a personal choice).
I'm guessing that some folks think twins are just plain sexy.... :wink .
Yes, the twins do provide some added maneuverability characteristics (even placed close together as on the 22' C-Dory).
There are valid "arguments" for either choice and that is entirely up to the discretion/likes/dislikes of each individual owner/operator.
Personally, I like and enjoy the twins and the majority of time when docking, my engines are placed dead center and all my maneuvering into the dock is accomplished by manipulating the two engine controls. In wind and current, I feel that this provides me with some extra options to counteract those forces that I would not have with a single, and if I wish to operate the vessel as I would with a single, I am still able to do that. (Obviously, it takes a bit of practice to make the twins work for you....but then again it takes practice with a single as well).
When I'm at work, our Rescue/Fire boat is a single outboard and I am able to accomplish successful maneuvering with it as well, although when operating the deck gun, I absolutely wish that it was rigged with twins to counteract the lateral forces of the water stream from the monitor.
I would suggest that folks interested in pursuing the pros/cons of each, search the archives of this site.
Years ago, Les of EQ Marine wrote a lengthy well composed article on the subject which outlined pros and cons of each.
(This site has many strong opinions....(imagine that... :roll: ) about the subject. The bottom line is....it is a personal choice).
I'm guessing that some folks think twins are just plain sexy.... :wink .
Captains Cat
New member
I'm guessing that some folks think twins are just plain sexy.... .
Heck, there's a CW song that is entitled "She thinks my tractor's sexy!" :thup
Charlie
Heck, there's a CW song that is entitled "She thinks my tractor's sexy!" :thup
Charlie
snal":39hirf96 said:
The placement of the controls for our twin Johnsons works fine for me, but perhaps they were positioned differently than yours.
As to the swim platform, I believe our 22' was the first with twins to "sport" a swim platform. Les at EQ Marine fabricated one up for "Sea Shift" when we purchased the vessel through him. Several photos of it may be viewed in our photo album.
With you all the way Dave.
Our CD22 was EQuipped (new word) the same way.
Had to re-learn a few things with the RF 246 and 2 x 135Hp on the back. Even if they are very close together there is a huge amount of power available and it's an interesting trade off between doing the "prop walk" or the "counter rotating twist".
Both work but you have to adjust (frequently) to changing conditions.
The BIG rub rail helps a lot, I think it would look good on a CD :shock:
Merv
Our CD22 was EQuipped (new word) the same way.
Had to re-learn a few things with the RF 246 and 2 x 135Hp on the back. Even if they are very close together there is a huge amount of power available and it's an interesting trade off between doing the "prop walk" or the "counter rotating twist".
Both work but you have to adjust (frequently) to changing conditions.
The BIG rub rail helps a lot, I think it would look good on a CD :shock:
Merv
DaveS":ilj1ur5w said:
Originally, mine were mounted too close to the cabin wall but tight against the seat (if I folded the back of the seat forward it would trigger the starboard trim switch) and too far back (awkward for me with long arms) so I moved the seat to the left to allow room to move the controls away from the cabin wall an inch, and moved the seat back because the cable length wouldn't allow me to move the controls forward.
Reverse is still awkward for me.
I've never had the need for tighter maneuvering than I can get with one engine, or both in the same gear.
I'd be very interested in seeing the swim platform made for twins! I think Ill purchase one of those for the port side, and mount a kicker on the starboard side...be the first to run "triplettes" :lol: (yes...I'm kidding)
Capital Sea
New member
A swim step is a nice thing to save room for. You can get in or out of a shore boat with ease and if anyone goes over the side it will be much easier to get them back in. The step also offers a very good platform for defouling anything that gets in your prop or readjusting your transducer if it gets knocked out of place.
Solid redundancy can be had with a sound kicker mounted next to your 90.
Solid redundancy can be had with a sound kicker mounted next to your 90.
At the risk of redundancy, I will weigh in strongly in favor of twins and give a few examples of why:
Boat handling in close quarters is not comparable, the boat can almost be spun in place with twins.
One twin 40 will push a moderatly loaded 22 something around 17-18 MPH. Kickers will maybe give you 5 MPH.
If you troll, a larger engine running slowly will provide better boat contol than a kicker will.
When setup properly, one engine uses the house battery for starting and the other has it's own battery with no other drain upon it.
Though probably not significantly, the twin configuration does provide a higher level of safety.
And, (this is the real reason we love em) they sound way cooler when they are both running hard!!! Kinda like a jet engine.
Capt Dan
Boat handling in close quarters is not comparable, the boat can almost be spun in place with twins.
One twin 40 will push a moderatly loaded 22 something around 17-18 MPH. Kickers will maybe give you 5 MPH.
If you troll, a larger engine running slowly will provide better boat contol than a kicker will.
When setup properly, one engine uses the house battery for starting and the other has it's own battery with no other drain upon it.
Though probably not significantly, the twin configuration does provide a higher level of safety.
And, (this is the real reason we love em) they sound way cooler when they are both running hard!!! Kinda like a jet engine.
Capt Dan
Captains Cat
New member
Dan, if you can go 17-18 mph with one twin on a 22, you must have an exceptional boat. I had twin 45s on a 22 and the boat might push 8 but certainly would not reach planing speed, which is what your reference is...
Charlie
Charlie