A little more on self bailing decks. Just because the scupper is below water doesn't mean the deck isn't still above water. E.g. the deck loses all self bailing capability when the deck is even with the water line (but to be fair this can often be changed with a change in speed and trim). HOWEVER, in some boats (like the Tomcat) much of the bilge area (or other area)below the deck is below the waterline at all times. In the Tomcat and similar self bailing designs, the scuppers are connected to the cockpit drains with a hose that runs through the below deck area. If this hose comes loose or cracks, AND the scuppers go below the water line AND are stuck open, the self bailing deck turns into a self filling bilge. I had the cockpit drain on my Tomcat break last year in such a way that I couldn't see it easy from the cockpit. The hose to the scupper was hanging loose below the level of the scupper. In the wrong conditions, this could have been a MAJOR issue. I've since replaced both cockpit drains with a different design that I believe will be less prone to failure but I'd still recommend that Tomcat owners check the fittings on the drain and scupper end of that hose and check the hose for integrity on a regular basis.
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Boat capsizes in San Diego halibut tournament
- Thread starter C-Dawg
- Start date
journey on
New member
Let me make it clear. The C-Dory 25 does not have a self bailing cockpit. Those scupper holes go below the waterline with more than 2 people aboard. In fact there are 2 tapered plugs on Journey On to plug those holes from the inside to keep the sea out. The only self bailing cockpits are those open to the rear, no matter what size boat. That's hard to do in an outboard powered boat.
Found this out at a C-Brats gathering when someone came aboard to admire the boat and drink beer. The water started coming in through the scuppers. I was embarrassed then but disgusted now.
I've found that the C-Dory will rise to all the waves we've been in as they come up and pass under the stern.. Have had green water come over the bow when we fell of a wave, though no water came into the cockpit. That episode was where the Sacrament River empties into Sisun Bay, wind against tyde. Came back through Montezuma Slough.
Boris
Found this out at a C-Brats gathering when someone came aboard to admire the boat and drink beer. The water started coming in through the scuppers. I was embarrassed then but disgusted now.
I've found that the C-Dory will rise to all the waves we've been in as they come up and pass under the stern.. Have had green water come over the bow when we fell of a wave, though no water came into the cockpit. That episode was where the Sacrament River empties into Sisun Bay, wind against tyde. Came back through Montezuma Slough.
Boris
The assumption is being made that some of the C Dorys are not self bailing. Although this may be true when the boat is at a low speed, or still in the water, once the boat is up on a plane, the water will drain out.
Yes, I generally have the camper canvas up when it is rough. If properly done, the camper canvas can prevent the vast majority of spray and even some significant slaps from waves will be kept out.
Many planing boats, both sail and power, will allow water to run out of the transom scuppers once the boat is up on a plane. Although I am not a fan, there are a number of scupper devices, such as the "Bilge rat" and one of the rubber type joker valves which attach to even a transom bottom scupper and allow the water to run out when the boat is on a plane.
I grew up on a sailboat very similar to a c Dory 25. It had a "self bailing cockpit--if you kept enough weight out of the cockpit or kept the boat level. (It had an arc bottom, and under some conditions would plane). When the boat was heeled over, the water would come back in the cockpit--and we had the black chemistry type of flask stopper to go in the scupper tubes. When one of the tuna clippers would come by at 8 to 9 knots, it would throw a 4 foot wake, and almost aways cove over the side of the cockpit combing--so we pulled the plug and the water drained back out thru that scupper, even as the boat was heeling. A boat with a more confined cockpit--such as the Tom Cat, will self bail better, because there is more aft volume which will not fill with water. For example if the 25 does not have a full fuel tank and either water or waste tank aft--depending on what year, it will be lighter, and the scuppers will be higher from the water.
Yes, I generally have the camper canvas up when it is rough. If properly done, the camper canvas can prevent the vast majority of spray and even some significant slaps from waves will be kept out.
Many planing boats, both sail and power, will allow water to run out of the transom scuppers once the boat is up on a plane. Although I am not a fan, there are a number of scupper devices, such as the "Bilge rat" and one of the rubber type joker valves which attach to even a transom bottom scupper and allow the water to run out when the boat is on a plane.
I grew up on a sailboat very similar to a c Dory 25. It had a "self bailing cockpit--if you kept enough weight out of the cockpit or kept the boat level. (It had an arc bottom, and under some conditions would plane). When the boat was heeled over, the water would come back in the cockpit--and we had the black chemistry type of flask stopper to go in the scupper tubes. When one of the tuna clippers would come by at 8 to 9 knots, it would throw a 4 foot wake, and almost aways cove over the side of the cockpit combing--so we pulled the plug and the water drained back out thru that scupper, even as the boat was heeling. A boat with a more confined cockpit--such as the Tom Cat, will self bail better, because there is more aft volume which will not fill with water. For example if the 25 does not have a full fuel tank and either water or waste tank aft--depending on what year, it will be lighter, and the scuppers will be higher from the water.
The assumption is being made that some of the C Dorys are not self bailing. Although this may be true when the boat is at a low speed, or still in the water, once the boat is up on a plane, the water will drain out.
Yes, I generally have the camper canvas up when it is rough. If properly done, the camper canvas can prevent the vast majority of spray and even some significant slaps from waves will be kept out.
Many planing boats, both sail and power, will allow water to run out of the transom scuppers once the boat is up on a plane. Although I am not a fan, there are a number of scupper devices, such as the "Bilge rat" and one of the rubber type joker valves which attach to even a transom bottom scupper and allow the water to run out when the boat is on a plane.
I grew up on a sailboat very similar to a c Dory 25. It had a "self bailing cockpit--if you kept enough weight out of the cockpit or kept the boat level. (It had an arc bottom, and under some conditions would plane). When the boat was heeled over, the water would come back in the cockpit--and we had the black chemistry type of flask stopper to go in the scupper tubes. When one of the tuna clippers would come by at 8 to 9 knots, it would throw a 4 foot wake, and almost aways cove over the side of the cockpit combing--so we pulled the plug and the water drained back out thru that scupper, even as the boat was heeling. A boat with a more confined cockpit--such as the Tom Cat, will self bail better, because there is more aft volume which will not fill with water. For example if the 25 does not have a full fuel tank and either water or waste tank aft--depending on what year, it will be lighter, and the scuppers will be higher from the water.
Yes, I generally have the camper canvas up when it is rough. If properly done, the camper canvas can prevent the vast majority of spray and even some significant slaps from waves will be kept out.
Many planing boats, both sail and power, will allow water to run out of the transom scuppers once the boat is up on a plane. Although I am not a fan, there are a number of scupper devices, such as the "Bilge rat" and one of the rubber type joker valves which attach to even a transom bottom scupper and allow the water to run out when the boat is on a plane.
I grew up on a sailboat very similar to a c Dory 25. It had a "self bailing cockpit--if you kept enough weight out of the cockpit or kept the boat level. (It had an arc bottom, and under some conditions would plane). When the boat was heeled over, the water would come back in the cockpit--and we had the black chemistry type of flask stopper to go in the scupper tubes. When one of the tuna clippers would come by at 8 to 9 knots, it would throw a 4 foot wake, and almost aways cove over the side of the cockpit combing--so we pulled the plug and the water drained back out thru that scupper, even as the boat was heeling. A boat with a more confined cockpit--such as the Tom Cat, will self bail better, because there is more aft volume which will not fill with water. For example if the 25 does not have a full fuel tank and either water or waste tank aft--depending on what year, it will be lighter, and the scuppers will be higher from the water.
True for the 25, 26 Venture and Tomcat. None of the 22's are self bailing (unless you count getting on plane and pulling the plug).thataway":2hymyd1e said:The assumption is being made that some of the C Dorys are not self bailing. Although this may be true when the boat is at a low speed, or still in the water, once the boat is up on a plane, the water will drain out. <stuff clipped>
rogerbum":1zq7zr4k said:True for the 25, 26 Venture and Tomcat. None of the 22's are self bailing (unless you count getting on plane and pulling the plug).thataway":1zq7zr4k said:The assumption is being made that some of the C Dorys are not self bailing. Although this may be true when the boat is at a low speed, or still in the water, once the boat is up on a plane, the water will drain out. <stuff clipped>
Absolutely true--the 22 has no sealed off floor. But the older 25's are not going to be really self bailing. They had scuppers in the transom, with a stepped down notch in the floor--however, the cockpit floor hatches leak enough that with much water in the cockpit it would soon be in the bilge.
Even with our older 25 (2003) loaded for a month cruising in AK there was never an issue with water coming into the cockpit thru the scuppers.
Although any of the C Dory's can be made self bailing with sealing the floor, and raising it well beyond the waterline, and filling in space on the sides--and aft--making a smaller and higher cockpit--with all of the negatives of that--there is still the cabin door --where water can get into the cabin, since few of these doors really seal well. There would have to be a high sill for the cabin.
The boats are seaworthy because they do lift rapidly when a sea comes from aft--but are still susceptible to breaking waves. I recollect that one of the Alaska boats was pooped and took a lot of water in the cockpit in rough conditions.
When I bought my boat a long time ago, I had heard that they would be self draining if you drove around with the plug out. I launched my boat one day at the Washington Park boat ramp and started to tie it up when a guy on the dock offered to just hold it for me while I parked the truck. I said OK and parked the truck. When I got back to the dock the guy handed me the rope and I thanked him and started to get in. I had unfortunately neglected to put in the plug so it had about 4" of water in it. No problem I thought, I'll just drive around and the water will run out. After driving around for about 10 minutes, I could tell the boat was not going to drain, at least not any time soon. So I stopped driving around, grabbed the plug, stuck it in, and started bailing.
The problem I had was getting on plane. All the water runs to the back of the boat making it very difficult to get on plane if not impossible. Then the drain hole is so small it would take a long time to drain the water out. As they say, the devil is in the details.
So I would not consider the 16 foot C-dory to have the ability to self drain unless there is a very small amount of water in it. I don't know how the 22' boat would react but at some point if there is too much water in the boat before you try to get on plane, you may not be able to drain it.
Al
The problem I had was getting on plane. All the water runs to the back of the boat making it very difficult to get on plane if not impossible. Then the drain hole is so small it would take a long time to drain the water out. As they say, the devil is in the details.
So I would not consider the 16 foot C-dory to have the ability to self drain unless there is a very small amount of water in it. I don't know how the 22' boat would react but at some point if there is too much water in the boat before you try to get on plane, you may not be able to drain it.
Al
Thank you everyone for your thoughts on the canvas to help reduce water in cockpit.
I never plan on heading out in storms but that doesn't mean I will never get caught in one! Last summer I crossed the Georgia Strait in choppy water. My bilge pump was not working properly at the time and I was amazed how much water came into my cockpit from waves hitting me on the port side. I'm talking about many gallons!
I have a new manual pump, I'm replacing my old electric with a new Rule 1100 with a separate automatic float valve switch, and I'm going to inquire about a canvas now too.
Thanks again for this conversation.
I never plan on heading out in storms but that doesn't mean I will never get caught in one! Last summer I crossed the Georgia Strait in choppy water. My bilge pump was not working properly at the time and I was amazed how much water came into my cockpit from waves hitting me on the port side. I'm talking about many gallons!
I have a new manual pump, I'm replacing my old electric with a new Rule 1100 with a separate automatic float valve switch, and I'm going to inquire about a canvas now too.
Thanks again for this conversation.