Boat capsizes in San Diego halibut tournament

C

C-Dawg

New member
This was taken from a fishing board. Defiance boats are a relatively new boat built in Washington, and have developed a rather popular following locally. A detailed description of what happened, as told by the captain, can be found on page 2. The highlights are poor decisions made in relation to the current sea conditions, and what to expect when you find yourself in the cabin when your boat's upside down.

CAUTION: The members of that site exercise their First Amendment to the fullest, so if F-bombs, epithets, or just stuff you wouldn't say in front of your mother is offensive, take heed while reading. :!:
 
Below is the report from the captain of the over turned boat. But I think all accidents have a start point. A point that you are not turning back from. I also feel that point is caused by "got to" 90% of the time. Got to - get there- get back- fish-be on time- follow the plan etc. flexibility is safety. Also what do you all think about the commits about the self inflating vest? I don't think I agree with the captain on this one.

Start point.?? yes or no??

"After an hour, I made the call to go back in and fish the bay. THIS IS WHERE MISTAKE ONE OCCURRED. I should have thought about the stacked up conditions that would be present at the entrance with a falling tide, and a huge swell heading directly into the tide, two hours after the slack-high point."


This may SAVE YOUR LIFE! …READ THIS! …The REAL story about the Defiance capsizing during the thanksgiving halibut classic – BY ME…THE GUY DRIVING!!!

The first line in this report: We’re all alive.
The bottom line in this story: We’re all alive.
This being said, it is time to put the dozens of rumors, second-guessing, and Monday-morning-quarterbacking aside and LEARN a few things from this terrifying day.

Mike is a great guy, runs a great event and should in NO WAY be blamed for any of this. It is the captain’s (me) decision to factor in all of the conditions, vessel, crew, tide, experience, etc….to determine what is safe and when it is safe. I take sole and full responsibility for the accident…I blame no-one or have no excuses….but there ARE several reasons this happened the way it did, and learning from it may save a life. If it only saves ONE LIFE, then it will be worth the time spent pecking away at this keyboard.

The weather reports were substantial…though, none of was even the slightest bit nervous or scared as we left the bay around 6:30. Sure, the stuff was big…but spaced out enough to make it manageable.

We were in a 12,000 pound, 29 foot (about 36 feet length-overall) Defiance pilot house, with twin Yamaha 250 four strokes. We had a full tuna-tower with second station, 115 gallon split bait tank. The floor and bow were all filled with closed-cell floatation foam. Diamond Sea Glaze storm windows. Radar, GPS, Two VHF radios, Two antennas, two hand held VHFs, two Handheld GPS units, a personal EPIRB, two flare guns, extra flares, strobe lights, standard PFDs, six cell phones, etc…etc…The reason I describe this, is the gear was USELESS in this situation! You can prepare, prepare, prepare, and then in a flash, you are upside down in the water. There is NO TIME….NO TIME when it goes bad. NO TIME….YOU MUST BE READY.

After turning up toward the crystal pier area, I pointed the boat into the weather. While I tried to control our direction at the helm, three of us tried to fish. It was un-fishable. After an hour, I made the call to go back in and fish the bay. THIS IS WHERE MISTAKE ONE OCCURRED. I should have thought about the stacked up conditions that would be present at the entrance with a falling tide, and a huge swell heading directly into the tide, two hours after the slack-high point. Didn’t cross my mind. Didn’t think the boat or crew was in danger. Not in the slightest. I have driven into that bay down-swell in dozens of different boats, dozens, if not hundreds of times….why would this be any different? IT WAS!

While we were swinging around trying to fish, we had managed to wrap about two hundred yards of mono AND spectra around the port prop…..It didn’t effect the performance of our ride at ten knots heading back to the bay, BUT IT DID AT FULL THROTTLE WHEN WE NEEDED IT….conditions were too rough to attempt clearing the prop, and it wasn’t effecting our performance….so I made the call to get inside before putting someone out on the swim platform to clear it…..Mistake Number TWO…..
The better call would have been to sit outside all day at idle until low-slack-tide, or limp around to the big bay. Stupid – but I didn’t realize it at the time….DO NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE – Stay alive.

He we go….I made a big, slow, gradual turn from Pacific Beach to dead-center channel. As we timed the swells, we head in….tabs up….bow up….throttles adjusting for swell-speed….the way the brain says to do it….the way we have all done it….by the book….with the feel….calling on all the experience…..anxious, but confident.

All six of us were in the pilothouse…door closed….I was on the back of a gnarly big one…timing it….it started gaining on us….leaving us behind, …I throttled all the way up to catch it, and had no thrust from my port motor…it was the spectra….we were doomed. The bow fell behind the swell and the next set picked up the stern and rolled us over……..so fast it was unbelievable. The power of those big, ebbing-stacked, twenty-footers is incredible.

A few minutes earlier I asked one of the crew to get all of the life jackets out of the bags and out of storage. How many of us have stowed-away PFD’s?....In a 36 foot-LOA, fully-enclosed pilot house….would you be wearing them in these conditions? ….I thought so too. READ THIS CAREFULLY OR YOU WILL DROWN!!!!!! We had all the PFDs next to each of us as we went in. I had a self-inflating C02 PFD snapped on as I stood at the helm.

When the boat rolled over, the cabin door slammed shut. The water pressure from outside held it shut. Bo Palmer wedged his arm in the closing-door first, but as we all tumbled, he lost his footing and it slammed. He thought this sealed it for us….we were dead…… Somehow with the help of adrenalin, courage, help from GOD, and the assistance of Jared at the other end, he pried the door open till it clicked into the auto-latch…… OPEN!

The water rushed in filling the dark, upside-down pilothouse in five seconds……the five crew who were NOT WEARING PFD’s were ABLE to swim down through the doorway, out into the cockpit, and out from under the boat…….those crew NOT WEARING PFDS!!!!!!.....Crazy huh?....Had they put the jackets on, instead of holding them, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN PINNED AGAINST THE UPSIDE-DOWN HULL AND DROWNED!!!!!.... AGAIN, read this part carefully OR YOU MAY DROWN!!!......CARRY A KNIFE….OR TWO….CLIPPED ON YOUR PFD OR BELT OR BOTH….My auto-inflator, did its job, and floated me to the underside of the cabin floor……I watched all five crew members swim out the door, and I was pinned to the cabin floor by my inflated PFD, with about eight inches of air above my neck. There was so much pressure around my fat head and under my arms, that it was impossible to un-buckle the vest…….My mind raced, and I realized my Spiderco stainless knife was clipped to my pocket….I grabbed it, popped both cells of my PFD, took one last breath from the air-pocket, and swam down out the door, around the bait tank, and up the side of the over-turned gunnel.

I remember screaming for a head count was first. Two were on the hull bottom…two more were holding onto the anchor pulpit. One was swimming toward the end of the jetty, and I held onto the prop and skeg…..THEN….the next monster-breaker blew us away from the boat like we were feathers. I was able to make it back between sets…Bo made it to the other inverted motor. My son Steven was twenty yards down swell, in water-proof pants and tight extra-tuff boots….ANOTHER LESSON……Get your boots off FAST! Do NOT wear any WATER TIGHT CLOTHING!!!!.....You will DROWN!....He is young, athletic, and in shape…but…He was barely able to keep himself afloat for the 15-20 minutes it took for the rescue boat to arrive. He was barely conscious, and on his last couple of breaths when the rescue swimmer got to him…..He did not regain consciousness until he was in the ambulance on the way to the hospital----he coughed out tons of saltwater….GET YOUR BOOTS OFF AND BUY THEM ONE-SIZE TOO BIG!!!!

Jared made it out with a PFD…He was ok. Feller made it to the Jetty. Kerry was aware enough to get out of her boots and sweatshirt, and swim to the rocks….she was exhausted, but alive.
Bo and I were dragged into the little whaler after Steven as the best trained, most heroic SD Lifeguard rescue swimmers I have ever witnessed saved our lives. THESE GUYS ARE HEROS!!!

The lessons here are many. It is my hope that you will read, and re-read these scenarios and play it out in your mind to stay alive when something like this runs up on you.

The boat did what it was supposed to. It floated. We crippled it, then asked it to do what it couldn’t, but it floated like it was built-to until help arrived. We lost the tower to the bottom, the rest of the boat is totaled……who cares…..We’re alive.[/quote]
 
C-Val":223futj9 said:
Does anyone know if my 1982 angler would float if turned upside down?
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Probably, but I'd wear a life jacket anyway... :thup :wink:

I think it's too big (length) to require flotation. You might let those troopers in Starcraft Tom's video take it out and test it. :shock:

Charlie
 
I can't understand all the people obsessed with fishing. The nerve of SOME them pointing fingers at football fans. I say the organizer should have should have called the event. We no longer head anywhere in our boat during small craft advisories. Things can go bad in a hurry. Thank the man upstairs that everyone is ok.
D.D.
 
I'd say the whole thing was pretty much dumb. Who goes out in that kind of stuff on purpose? I wouldn't have and I sometimes push the envelope a bit. Large widely spaced seas are one thing in the open ocean, but really quite another around capes, points, and areas with an irregular bottom like around a bar or any kind of shoal as they greatly amplify sea conditions. And he went there intentionally.....when there was any easy and safe way to get back in. While he didn't mention it, and he probably doesn't even realize it, one of the reasons he sank is because he was lucky and got away with this in the past. And this complacently and feeling like they could make it every time led to loss of his boat. I'm sad for him for sure as it sucks to lose your boat, but happy he doesn't have to live with killing his crew due to his inexperience and arrogance.
 
did he say 20+ft seas?
While you won't catch me in weather like that, it is a great learning opportunity. I always become just a little more reflective when a skipper talks about his son being with him on the capsized boat. I can only imagine being in this situation with my boy.
 
It would seem they had the wind against the tide. That might account for the fishing line getting wrapped around one of the props. That also makes for more exciting times for running an inlet. I wonder if the tower setup also made the boat a little top heavy or increased the wind load at the top of the boat. I would wonder if the guy is even interested in purchasing another boat after a harrowing experience like that. Safer and much cheaper to send the wife down to the fish market.
D.D.
 
I believe the boat capsized in the Mission Bay inlet, which is north of San Diego Bay. That's a narrow E-W inlet which (obviously) can be a bear when the wind is blowing in and the tyde is going out. You do not go in or out during those occasions, though I guess that a fishing tournament and a hot boat overrides normal.

The entrance to San Diego Bay is S-N and is protected by Pt. Loma from the storms. Though it can become interesting during a southerly wind. I once surfed Our Journey, a 36" sailboat into San Diego. Great experience and I hope I never repeat it.

Boris
 
Thanks for this account. I looked at the boat specifications. It has a 9' 10" beam, and looks like it has a relatively low center of gravity -- even with that fly bridge. Obviously, this is a classic broach. Our boats -- even thirty footers -- are small craft. I've read that waves greater than 30 percent the length of a boat at the water line that hits a boat broadside has the potential for capsizing a boat. As the Captain said, he should have waited before entering the channel. For me, this account reinforces my discipline to not venture out in four foot seas. It's one thing if you get surprised by adverse conditions, but to venture out with full knowledge that the sea state is adverse, because you have to be there, as Tom pointed out, is not wise. A broach can happen so quickly in following seas, it is scary. In following seas, a wave coming out of the wrong direction, an abrupt change in bottom elevation, going too fast for conditions -- all can lead to a broach.

Obviously, the captain of this boat is experienced. He just got complacent, as we all have done, but it was his misfortune that a random series of coincidences led to a deleterious outcome. I admire his honesty, and he punched something home to me personally: my wife and I don't usually wear our PFD's while underway, unless the seas pick up. Next season, we are going to wear our devices at all times while underway!

Rich
 
C-Nile":74s49ove said:
Thanks for this account. I looked at the boat specifications. It has a 9' 10" beam, and looks like it has a relatively low center of gravity -- even with that fly bridge. Obviously, this is a classic broach. Our boats -- even thirty footers -- are small craft. I've read that waves greater than 30 percent the length of a boat at the water line that hits a boat broadside has the potential for capsizing a boat. As the Captain said, he should have waited before entering the channel. For me, this account reinforces my discipline to not venture out in four foot seas. It's one thing if you get surprised by adverse conditions, but to venture out with full knowledge that the sea state is adverse, because you have to be there, as Tom pointed out, is not wise. A broach can happen so quickly in following seas, it is scary. In following seas, a wave coming out of the wrong direction, an abrupt change in bottom elevation, going too fast for conditions -- all can lead to a broach.

Obviously, the captain of this boat is experienced. He just got complacent, as we all have done, but it was his misfortune that a random series of coincidences led to a deleterious outcome. I admire his honesty, and he punched something home to me personally: my wife and I don't usually wear our PFD's while underway, unless the seas pick up. Next season, we are going to wear our devices at all times while underway!

Rich
Click to expand...

P.s. We use Type V Stearns 1131 Ultra Inflatable Vests that are manually inflatable. Obviously, there are drawbacks to this type of vest, because an individual needs to be conscious to inflate the vest. These do not auto inflate in water, which could otherwise trap us in our cabin when inflated. That Captain gave people with pilothouse boats a lot to consider in his account.
 
One very important point to remember that if he had the use of both engines, with his experience he would have probably been fine. The lack of the ability to get needed power out of the engine with the line around the prop was what doomed him because he could not match the speed of the wave, and ended up on the face of a wave, instead of being on the much safer back--he recognized this as soon as he saw he could not keep up with the wave train.

He could/should have gone around Point Loma, as Boris noted, for a all weather deep water entrance, and then hitched a ride to get his rig and trailer. Knowing that area, I believe that the wind would have been offshore, and most likely out of the North West. In this specific case it was wind driven waves again the ebbing tide which steepened the waves.
 
C-Nile":dja93cbd said:
<stuff clipped> For me, this account reinforces my discipline to not venture out in four foot seas. It's one thing if you get surprised by adverse conditions, but to venture out with full knowledge that the sea state is adverse, because you have to be there, as Tom pointed out, is not wise. A broach can happen so quickly in following seas, it is scary. In following seas, a wave coming out of the wrong direction, an abrupt change in bottom elevation, going too fast for conditions -- all can lead to a broach.

Obviously, the captain of this boat is experienced. He just got complacent, as we all have done, but it was his misfortune that a random series of coincidences led to a deleterious outcome. I admire his honesty, and he punched something home to me personally: my wife and I don't usually wear our PFD's while underway, unless the seas pick up. Next season, we are going to wear our devices at all times while underway!

Rich
Click to expand...
A rule like "Not venturing out in seas over 4'" doesn't take into account the period of the waves. 4' @10s or greater is some of the nicest/easiest water to boat in that you can find in the ocean, especially if the wind is light. So while of course, you must do what you feel comfortable doing, I would only suggest that you need to know both the height and the period of the wave in order to make a well informed decision. With the wind against the tide situation that this captain experienced, not only were the seas tall but they were probably much more closely spaced at the entrance than they were offshore. For relatively small swells (e.g. <5'), my general rule is that if the period in seconds is 3-4 greater than the height in feet, it's very manageable. When the period in secs. is far greater than the height in feet, the water is easily manageable (assuming light winds in all cases).

I had my 22 in swells that were 8-10' but very long (like 20s) period on a day with fairly light wind. There was no concern then about broaching, etc. The boat bobbed up and down like a cork. It was quite easy to get sea sick, but there was no danger from the swells (other than reduced visibility when you were in the bottom of a swell).

Having the PFD's on at all times is a good idea. The unexpected is well, unexpected and PFD's only work when they're on. I prefer self inflating PFD's since I'm worried about falling out/off the boat and banging my head on something that prevents me from pulling the cord.
 
The Pacific coast has a lot of entrances that run east-west and are tidal. The Columbia River is a wonderful example, but the lesser ones are Bandon, Morro Bay, even Oceanside. Hardly surprising since the coast runs (mostly) north-south.

And the winds are from the west, from north-west to south-west. So they tend to blow into the various inlets.

My point here is that any Pacific Coast boater should be familiar with the conditions in these inlets. One look and common sense should prevail. It isn't just wave height or the set of the tide, those inlets just look ugly. I tried going out of Mission Bay years go and the first 2 waves told me how dumb that was. Of course, turning around then became the big problem.

Now why did anybody in the tournament try going out? Well, the guy who capsized was down selling Defiance boats, showing how tough they were. And he was from the Puget sound area, which is inland through the Straits. The Puget Sound can get rough, certainly rougher than Mission Bay but doesn't have narrow wind vs tide channels (I realize this is debatable.) So he saw a chance to prove his boat, didn't give the situation enough respect and lost. In the end, numbers don't quantify the problem, judgement does. Thank God no one died.

Judy thinks Southern California is the calmest area in the world to boat, but it still deserves respect.

Boris
 
I think this story just goes to show that even with being prepared, having experience, familiarity with an area, thing can still go wrong.

As I sat with my brother in law during dinner telling him of what happened, we both had chills of thinking what we might have done in that situation. I think this will alter what we do in the future and how we make decisions when things look or might turn ugly.

I met Bo (Defiance owner) last year at the Seattle Boat show where he was showcasing Arima and the Defiance line. They had just purchased Arima and I was thanking him for that and wishing him luck with the line. He seemed like a great person and glad to know that the story did not end up as a tragedy.
 
Roger,

I completely agree with you. Where we go boating, we see short-period waves and often encounter confused seas. Long Island Sound is very shallow, we are sandwiched in-between two major tidal rivers, and we have to contend with robust tidal flows from Plum Gut and the Race. At times, we have encountered longer period waves, and they are actually quite enjoyable. So really, after we all become acquainted with our boats, we begin to understand the prevalent conditions in our areas, understand the limitations of our boats, and we compensate accordingly. The other thing, is that in prior posts, I commented that our boat performed very poorly into head seas exceeding three feet. She can easily take greater than four feet in following seas, and I think this is true for all C-Dory's. In piloting our boat, I have a passenger aircraft captain mentality in that I try to promote as smooth a ride as possible to ease the strain on my boat and passengers. Trust me: if I drove the boat like a bucking bronco over our cruising grounds, there is no way my wife would ever spend three weeks of overnights per year in our boat!

As for the life jackets, you are of course correct. I chose not to get self-inflatable jackets, because we don't fish and we keep the camperback closed while under way. If the boat were to capsize, there would be less chance of becoming trapped in the cabin due to the bulk of an auto-inflated PFD. On the other hand, I am also taking a chance that if I were to fall overboard and strike my head, I could drown. I honestly don't know what the right answer is to this one, but I would think for fisherman that having auto-inflatable PFD's are safer than manual models. (Incidentally, I don't know how big the windows are on C=Dory 22's, but on our Marinaut, the side windows are so large that we would swim right through the open window -- even with my 250 pound weight and large frame! We would not be able to fit through, however, wearing a fully inflated PFD.)

Thanks,

Rich
 
I have only one rule for boating and it is don't do anything stupid. I know that is vague and highly subjective but still very good advice. Going out in 20 foot seas in an area that is constricted with an irregular bottom is foolish, arrogant, and something one with "lots of experience," just doesn't do as you KNOW how snotty and dangerous it could potentially be. If he is as experienced as the claims that are being thrown around in his regards, then I agree with Boris he had to be out there trying to show how tough Defiance boats are. I'm sure they are tough, but the most important component in any boat is the brain of the person behind the helm. When that fails or is compromised, then we all know where that leads eventually. I feel bad for him, but again I am glad they made it out realtively unharmed and didn't lose anything of real value (family and friends).
 
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