boarding ladder saved a life

Glenn's comments about trying to get aboard using the swim step hits the nail on the head for the solo boater. He and Joe made an important point about fitness or lack thereof. Also, trying it out in a safe environment. We can disregard how any solo boater finds him or her self in the drink - leave that to one's imagination. How many of us actually would do what Glenn did, viz. go through a drill?

And even a drill may not prepare you for the real thing, but it did give Glenn the info he needed - to get some grab rails installed in strategic places and a fighting chance to get aboard.

Recall the difference between a drill and the real thing when I joined the Marine Corps. We trained on land to crawl down cargo nets to the ground. But when we landed on Inchon, it was down the nets into landing boats heaving and slaming into the troop ship. Had the pleasure of being ordered along with several others to go down the nets first to pull the bottoms away from the hull to help keep the troops from getting feet and legs mangled as they descended. Now when you are 18 and agile, it was an adventure of sorts, but when I got my feet safely passed the pinch zone, I decided to jump to the deck. Can still remember what the sting felt like in the ankles upon impact.

Glenn's candidness reminds us that few are physically capable of climbing up the swim step into the well. I know I couldn't without something to grab with both hands.

A quick assessment of the Far West II. suggests without a boarding ladder in place, crawling into the well would be most difficult. Now if your Dory has trim tabs, that is a place to put your feet. Weighted, they may drop a few inches, but they will support your weight. Next, where to grab on something. The edge of the well is difficult - but if you have the 1999 and previous models, the cleat is properly located as a grab point. Long arms will help. Also, the steering arm may give you something to grab.

Unfortunately, the new owners screwed up royally when they reconfigured the location of the rear cleats to run parallel with the hull. They are going to purgatory for that decision, not to mention the Mickey Mouse covers and small entrance into the lazarettes.

Excuse my rants. John
 
A slight add-on to Yellowstone's comments and allusion - the CG has told us that most fatal overboards are men, with their pant's zippers down.
 
El and Bill":2r31hyxc said:
A slight add-on to Yellowstone's comments and allusion - the CG has told us that most fatal overboards are men, with their pant's zippers down.
Click to expand...

Whether it is "fatal" or not.....certainly, don't try it in a canoe!... :shock:

(hmmmm, wonder how I know?.... :embarrased )
 
Gee, Bill. All this time I thought the guys had their zippers down so they could take off their pants to swim better. Are you and El going to leave your tropical paradise at Lake Powell and mosey north? (We had wet snow on the ground yesterday) Edna and I head to Bridge Bay for a minimum of a month on the 15th, and Jay and Jolee are coming in on the 20th. Still thinking about Canada? Understand one has to have passports to cross the border. John
 
I'll have to check out the book that Bill refers to--sounds very good. I have always felt that "situational awareness" is key--not only in survival, but in preventing situations which become survival from just a simple mistake or mis-understanding. Boating involves a high degree of situational awareness to prevent problems--or to react immediately and instinstively to an emergency.

Both training drills, and wirtten plans are important--in that they force you to think through what will happen, and how any problems can be rectified. There is no question that some people are instinctively more suited to survive. Part may be training and background, but part is inherient.

We are perticularly aware of "boarding" our 25, as we travel. All be it different from the ground, than with wet clothes and in 40 degree water. But that big step up to the ladder, and then looking for a hand hold is an eye opener. We also have the railings around the cockpit in the 25, which are a better hand hold, and in our boat we have put in SS tubing in the splash well to cary either an ice chest or the generator--these also make reasonabel hand holds, comming aboard.

Great discussion!
 
Bob, I think you would not only find "Deep Survival" enjoyable but fasinating. Jo-Lee and I read it through the local Library several years ago. Thought it was so good we bought our own copy and read and plan to re read it every year. One of the more interesting points brought out by the author was the "what were they thinking" when a person who absolutely knows better puts themselves into a extreme life threating situation through either the thrill or just "gloriousness" (my own discription) of the moment. Have been there many times in my life and only luck or "the right stuff" got me through the consequences of that step to far. Hopefully by having read and reread this book and knowing just why myself and others find ourselves prone to this we will be more apt to think ahead instead of someone else asking about us "what were they thinking".

I have recommended reading this book here in the past.

Jay
 
rogerbum":2eugrenr said:
If a Type V device is used to count toward requirements, it must be worn. Most of the Mustang inflatable pfds that I have looked at are listed at Type V. Here's a cut and paste from a Mustang pfd manual for two of their models. I added the bold face.

Owner’s Manual
MD3003 Inflatable PFD
Manual Inflation Model
USCG Approved Type V,
Approved Only When Worn,
Special Use Device
MD3031 Inflatable PFD
Manual with Automatic Backup Inflation Model
USCG Approved Type V,
Approved Only When Worn,
Special Use Device

Also from Mustang's web site:

Inflatable PFDs
Inflatable PFDs can be seen as the new generation of lifejackets. It must be worn to qualify as a PFD. These devices come in automatic or manual inflating models. Manual models are inflated by pulling a tab. They can also be blown up with an included tube if for some reason the tab doesn't operate properly. Automatic models are inflated via a C02 cartridge. Inflation is generally triggered by a dissolving bobbin when it is immersed in water. They also can be activated manually by pulling the tab. Inflatables are less bulky than inherently buoyant PFDs because they are only inflated when an individual is in the water. A version with integrated sailing harness is also available.
Click to expand...

That is a class 5. It is a working life jacket. Must be manualy huffed up. Not familier with that one. Mine is a class three S.O.S. I'll see if I can take a picture of the label. That working vest is new by the looks of it.

captd

Copied from West Marine

High buoyancy inflatables (150 N or 33 lbs of buoyancy) have a Type III performance rating if they are manually–activated with a ripcord, and a Type II performance rating if they are water–activated. Both products perform exactly alike once they’re inflated, since the bladder and the rest of the life jacket are identical except for the inflator. Some types, like the Offshore Life Jackets (sail and power) can be converted from automatic or manual by a simple change to their Secumar 4001 1F inflator.

The Coast Guard requires that water–activated “automatic” inflatables with non–1F inflators have to be worn to be counted in the vessel’s inventory of life jackets. The most recent models with 1F inflators, so–called “stowables”, don’t have to be worn to be counted as inventory. However, this misses the point of inflatable PFDs, which are so comfortable that you’ll wear them while on the water.

Finally, the inshore Comfort Series inflatables use a 25gr. cylinder, and provide 22.5lb. of flotation. They are only legal when worn.
 
Yes - but don't confuse "have a Type III performance rating" with actually being classified as Type III. As long as it says Type III on the label (which yours do), your fine. However, not all of the mustang suspender pfds are labeled as Type III. Many are labeled as Type V. In particular, the hydrostatic activated ones are Type V.

My West Marine offshore inflatables are labeled as Type V - UNLESS I disarm the hydrostatic inflation and make them manually inflatable only and I suspect the same is true of many hydrostatically activated inflatables (like the Mustang ones I linked to above). My mustang manually inflatable (model MD3085) is labeled as Type III when it's used on a recreation vessel but Type V if used on an uninspected commercial vessel. So not all suspender type inflating vests are type III, people really have to read the label.

What I find to be strange is that the hydrostatic jackets are type V and must be worn where as the manually activated ones are type III and need not be worn. In the incident described that started this thread, a manually operated inflatable wouldn't have helped. Also, it's not that uncommon for people to bang their head when the fall from a boat so I much prefer the hydrostatic inflatables. I want the jacket to keep me afloat even if I get knocked out.


Here's the images of yours

HPIM1164.jpg
HPIM1173.jpg
 
Thanks to Rogerbum, I have learned some technicalities about PFDs which I didn't know. As to his musing about why a certain type PFD is OK but not another,( the one covering more safety conditions is not)one has to delve into the madness that has become institutionalized in our governments.

Recently, the U.S. Forest Service has authorized the public to use bear proof coolers for camping use. No more hauling it up the bear pole. But to date the NPS has not signed off. Imagine getting cited for leaving a bear proof cooler on the ground in Yellowstone Park.

The topic which I started has meandered a bit,(I'm exhibit A) but everything added has enlightened me to no end. Water safety is not a particularly sexy topic, but even case hardened sea faring persons need to take inventory on occasion. As the year's slide by, I will not be able to take the risks on water that I did when much younger. And I'm sure my judgment hasn't improved, either.

Last fall while boating alone, I fell into the water (without a PFD on) while trying to step from my 20' Lund onto a low dock. The boat moved away as I was stepping, and I didn't get enough weight on the foot hitting the dock to compensate, and gravity took over. Had done this manuever hundreds of times without incident. The only saving grace was that I was the only one around the area, so my embarrassment was not shared initially.

I'm quite sure many of the C-Brats could come up with their own embarrassing moments on the water. One philosopher has said that public confessions may be good for the soul, but they are awfully hard on one's reputation. So be careful.

Talk about taking risks on water, authors on Joshua Slocum and the ledgendary Spray claim that he couldn't swim a stroke. John
 
Well, although not planned out for me, in spite of having a number of MOB aids aboard, the last time I fell overboard I was alone in the cold water looking up at the big yellow Lifesaver emergency ring and the mounts for my TomCat's diving ladder (which was neatly stowed in the forward bunk).

So much for being prepared! I did have a four step ladder mounted on the forward bow area but that was about 3 feet above the water line.

Fortunately, I remembered the Perma Trim plates on the outboards and got over to sit on one of them. If you want to picture a very grateful person, imagine how I felt when, after spending some time trying to figure out how to get all the way up, I looked up one side of the outboard to see that tilt switch right there within easy reach!!! Wheeeew!!!

Just like an elevator, it elevated my out of shape carcass up enough to be dumped onto the swim step!!!

Whoever put those switches there on the side of the outboard saved me a lot of grief and maybe even my life!

So, thanks for that!

John
 
Well, although not planned out for me, and in spite of having a number of MOB aids aboard, the last time I fell overboard I was alone in the cold water looking up at the big yellow Lifesaver emergency ring and the mounts for my TomCat's diving ladder (which was neatly stowed in the forward bunk).

So much for being prepared! I did have a four step ladder mounted on the forward bow area but that was about 3 feet above the water line.

Fortunately, I remembered the Perma Trim plates on the outboards and got over to sit on one of them. If you want to picture a very grateful person, imagine how I felt when, after spending some time trying to figure out how to get all the way up, I looked up one side of the outboard to see that tilt switch right there within a stretched reach!!! Wheeeew!!!

Just like an elevator, it elevated my out of shape carcass up enough to be dumped onto the swim step!!!

Whoever put those switches there on the side of the outboard saved me a lot of grief and maybe even my life!

So, thanks for that!

John
 
After thinking about it for awhile, I'm guessing that the manually operated self-inflating life vests can be classified as Type III and are sometimes called "stowables" due to them having a reasonably long shelf life when stowed away out of sight. I would guess that the hydrostatic ones could potentially arm while in stowage and depending on when they armed and where they are stored perhaps go unnoticed. At least that's the only rationale I can come up with for allowing the manual ones to be classified as Type III.

Regardless, I'm carrying almost exclusively Type V's and I tell everyone on board that the must wear them for me to be legal. The vests are so comfortable and MOB incidents so unpredictable, it just makes good sense to wear them whenever one is on the water.
 
Number one thing I got from this thread is now know the self inflating vest needs to be worn in order to count when boat is inspected. Have never been boarded for inspection by any agency on any boat. Thought I knew after much info reading what was needed to pass, but sure missed that one.

Though much good info on this thread about the need for boarding ladder it still remains low on my priority list for a long cruise when all storage space comes at a decision of what must remain behind. Seems to me with all the excepted hazards of a long wilderness type cruise this hazard ranks pretty low. Do ware Mustang Jacket or self inflating life jacket in what I consider hazardous conditions or most times when setting the anchor or out on the bow or going from cockpit to bow along the outside of cabin. Do not normally ware life vest when inside the cabin or in the cockpit. Of course any children aboard must have one on at all times. For us the trim tabs and motor tilt to motor well will have to do along with the Mokai kayak or dingy if one of us goes overboard. With the dingy along always felt if Jo-Lee or I went over and with the aid of trim tabs or motor tilt couldn't reboard one or the other could quickly cut loose the dingy or use the Mokai for the rescue.

The one time I came really close to needing a vest and of course not waring one was while docked in preparation to load boaT on trailer at launch dock. Was recovering from elbow surgery which made my left arm useless. Boat was tied very loosely to dock and stepped with one foot aboard the bow just behind the bow railing to remove an item from the bow. Ended up doing the classic leg splits from boat to shore. Didn't go into the water where I easily could have knocked my self out and then been trapped between the boat and dock but did severely pull my hamstring muscle on the leg that was on shore in the process of trying to get the rest of the body there. This was on Yellowstone Lake and Jo-Lee ended up loading the boat by herself and then driving me to the Hospital in Jackson, Wy. So I quess a point could be made for using the lifejacket whether in the boat or on the dock. I'm more careful in the loading process, but still no jacket on while doing it.

Jay
 
Hi Folks,

Good story and two good topics.

As for the boarding ladder, I purchased a ladder from West Marine and PERMENTLY ATTACHED it to my starboard stern. I do a lot of singlehanded boating and if I slip and go overboard I want to get back on board. More lives are lost on people falling overboard and not being able to get back aboard.

As for a life jackets. We at the USCGAux and USPS (I belong to both) are pushing the idea of wearing a life jacket whenever we go out boating. I wear a manual inflatable which is very comfortable.

Fred
 
Jay,

I don't know if it's true or not but I have heard that the most frequent MOB occurrence is while at the dock. So, yes, I think it's a great idea to wear a pfd on the dock but most of us never do. I've seen many people go in the water while docking, launching etc. It's at those times when injury often results as there's more stuff around to catch on or to knock one's head on. If one is in a remote area or boating in a place without others around at the time, it's definitely a good idea to don the pfd anytime you're near water. Also, kids on the dock should probably have a pfd on at all times.
 
I keep a large gaff hook on port side in rod holder. As people come aboard I let them know this is how I recover anyone that falls overboard...........haven't lost anyone yet! In fact I can't get them close enough to the gunnel to fish.

Humor aside, if I'm out alone fishing I tie a floating line onto a cleat and throw it overboard. Gives me something to pull myself back aboard with.
 
Inflatable PFD when on the dock or launching is a good idea. I need to be better at wearing it on the lunch ramp. The water may be shallow, but the possibility of drowning from the cold water shock, or head injury from a fall could be reduced by have the PFD on and at the ready.

Harvey
SleepyC
 
Thanks to Bill and Jay. I went into the book store in Ketchican and in the Alaska section someone had left a copy of “Deep Survival” right on the front shelf! Talk about fate!

Deep Survival by Laurence Gonzales is very interesting—not sure that I agree 100% with all of his thoughts, mainly because I am not into Zen…but I am sure that there is “something” there. I had a very specific interest, since his father, a main theme in the book was teaching at Baylor Med when I was a student there. The author describes very accurately a hallway I walked many times to the anatomy lab-when he was 5 years old and working in his fathers lab in 1958. I would have remembered his father, if he had lectured to me, so I can only conclude that since I started there in 1957,that his father didn’t lecture the frosh med students until fall 1958.

Certainly I would recommend this book to any one who ventured out of the mainstream of life. This would include boaters who go into remote areas or cross oceans---but probably should include every boater. For example the football players in the 22 foot open boat off The Ft. Meyers area, who tried to pull the anchor, by the stern, swamped and rolled the boat—then two died, and one survived. The two who died gave up. The one who survived didn’t. But—one has to remember that the entire accident was caused by not watching the weather, not having the judgment to cut the anchor line, when it was hung up, rather than risking the boat, and by not having locator beacons, and submersiable VHF radios—a lot of mistakes. Many survival conditions are a series of compounded errors—not just one simple accident—and the survival of some vs the death of others in similar circumstances emphasize this.

What training? He recommends survival school, outward bound or similar experiences. I grew up scouting and eventually became an Eagle Scout—that certainly prepared me for many challenges, but it also taught me to always have situational awareness, and to always be prepared to survive. I used to do a lot of solo hiking and back packing—certainly risky behavior. But I had read a lot of survival techniques (a book called “wildwood wisdom” was my “bible”. I had also practiced some survival skills. I always had adequate clothing, protection, a firearm and someway to make a fire—even on day hikes. My children got a lesson in survival when a bear got our food on the first day of a 3 day trip. They learned we don’t panic, we look at what resources were available in the Sierra and then move on using these resources. (mother bear had sent a cub up the tree and the cub slid down the rope which the pack containing the food was in—and brought it to the ground.),

In boating, certainly taking as many of the courses offered by Power Squadron and CG aux as possible are a good start. Boating with others who have more experience and learning from them is also helpful. Also reading heavy weather and survival stories will help prepare. Finally maping out each potential “diseaster” and preparing for it ahead of time stacks the odds. Gonzales, emphasizes the mental attitude as being the most important in survival.

Getting back on target,--anyone who had not already practiced boarding with clothes on and in cold water, needs to really think this one out very carefully—you are now one of those people in the book—“What were they thinking”—by not being prepared. We are not big on life jackets but when I was a kid, the times I fell overboard were mostly at the dock. Once at sea, once getting into the dinghy (we didn’t have a dock and were tied to pilings right after WWII), and at least twice jumping on or off the boat. I have lost at least two good fiends who drowned when they fell overboard at the dock. The only person who fell off one of my boats was when were were rafting to another boat. Not only does a harness inflatable type of jacket provide floatation, but also a “grab point” or hoisting point” to get a person aboard!
 
Back
Top