Bilge question - where is the water coming from?

Extra hole update. I had my boat on the trailer for a week of so with the bilge drain plug in. The bilge pump had power. Only a little water <1/2" was in the sump (my Rule 1100 always leaves about that much). I pulled the transom plug and the water that ran out the transom was replenished by water from under the cockpit entering through the "extra hole" in the forward side of the sump. I replaced the plug and raised the bow way up. I positioned a bucket under the bilge drain, pulled the plug and collected 4 gallons of water that had been under the cockpit! I examined this "extra hole". You can see it if you look through the transom drain hole from outside the boat. You can also see it from inside the boat if you bend just so and push your head between the fuel tanks and lay your right temple on the bilge pump. You could likely see it better from this location if you didn't wear bifocals! This hole appears to have been made by drilling several 3/16" (or so) holes near each other. The end result was a rather ragged 3/8" hole low on the forward wall of the sump. I thought that the drill might have been passed through the transom drain hole to drill the sump but the drilled holes didn't line up with that opening. I think that someone used a right angle drill motor from inside the boat. I do not think that a regular drill motor would fit. Will supply pictures soon. Later, Rick
 
JT":29jdokl5 said:
I initially missed the fact the new boats have a flat floor installed.
My 87' was not flat, no water under floor.
It seems a problem may have been created while upgrading to flat floors.
The factory should be able to fix this easy enough. Leave out the foam?
Change stringers? Do both?
Albury, I was the one who misunderstood. Sorry about that.


JT :smiled
Click to expand...

My 94 CD22 had the original floors. Inserts that made them "flat" were options. They just laid on top of the sloping floors and made them level. I used dry-dek on mine and they were fine. Sometime around 2006-7 they introduced the molded interior and cockpit liner. Not sure whether this was on top of the original floor in the cockpit or if it replaced it. Sounds like it may be a problem. :disgust

Good luck, keep us posted.

Charlie

Charlie
 
I look at our 2007 again where the water was getting in to this area, where the floor fits the back of the cabin, looks like the sealer was put on with a brush or some other tool it was at the beginning or overlap of the sealer. It was not put there on purpose. It was not round just where the overlap with a new stroke of sealer there was a little slit.
I looked at the back where the bilge pump is and no little holes back there.
Where water was leaking out was also where the sealer overlapped below the door on the inside. Not a round hole, little slit in the sealer
Sorry if I miss informed about a little hole, not put there on purpose by the factory. At that time it was a little hole letting water into somewhere it should not.
Jim
 
Hello again, I was able to get some pictures of the "extra hole" in my bilge pump well. Please excuse the quality...they were taken with my cell phone...you will find them in my photos...hope future photos will be of a more fun subject...Rick
 
Thanks for the pictures Rick a picture is worth a 1,000 words but yours confirmed exactly what I expected. My question is I wonder how the person who drilled the holes determined he had water in the void? I found water in my cabin by the bulkhead wall (about a cup) and thought it might be from the water tank plumbing but now I have my doubts. I really think and inspection plate would be a good idea and a small (water tight) one inside the cabin I think would be my choice. I called the factory yesterday for advice and left a message with someone named Cam Perry but haven't gotten a return call.
 
I guess it would depend on the exact hull/transom construction in that area, but I'd think it would be a lot easier to put in a drain through the bottom of the transom and into the chamber (with an appropriate metal tube liner) as opposed to an inspection port down between the batteries.

Do you have water in the space? Stop on a hill and open the drain. Easier than putting your head down between the gas tanks while laying on your stomach and trying to peer into the void with a flashlight.

You'd find the drain a lot easier to install, and a lot easier to get the water out with, too. Drilling from the outside would be a lot easier than using a saber saw between the gas tanks, and you might have to even remove them to get the room to turn the saw body. Most inspection ports are abut 5-6 inches in diameter, and a hole saw that big probably couldn't be used in that area very easily, either.

I've put many of both drains and inspection ports on sailboats before, and I would really think the drain to be a lot simpler solution. Just don't forget the plug (Square One!). {Not the square plug, Square One on the procedure list.}:lol:

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I will get some Pics also, my Cable that I hook to my Camera then to the Printer is in Our RV, Will go and get the cable this weekend. Don't know of any other way to get the Pics from the Camera to the Forums.
Jim
 
I found another cable to download Pics, they are not to good but it can be made out. No color to work with.
They are in our Photos Pic # 21 , #22
Jim
 
Joe the reason I suggested an inspection port was there is no way to tell that I've found if your particuliar boat has foam in it. On looking at it closely today there really isn't room for an inspection port on the vertical surfaces so it you did it would have to be in the deck. Maybe a better idea is as you suggest a drain plug and perhaps use a bore scope to examine the inside to tell if you might have water logged foam. I did some measuring today and I figured that the void is capable of containing 18 gallons of water or 152 pounds. The real solution is to fix the leak which is on the cabin bulkhead. I took a picture of mine and it appears to be sealed with something beside 5200 it's actually pretty soft and I believe you could actually pick it out with a screw driver. Mine like Jim's had turned black and I cleaned it with Spray 9 and it seamed to have a white coating on it which almost looked like paint. It came off revealing black beneath. Here's the picture.

cockpit2.jpg
 
Did anyone hear back from the factory, I think about 2 people called the factory?
I don't think it is a big deal with the water in there, if it is got out and dried out. If a fix or something is done it should comstant with all 2007 year models
Jim
 
Jim I called the factory twice but never got through to anyone. I left my number and asked to have someone call me and haven't heard from anyone so I'm a little disappointed with Fluid Marine. I agree I don't think it's that big a deal but I'd like to know what the factory recommends as a sealant between the deck and bulkhead.
 
I just noticed this tread about water under the floor on 2007 22” CD’s. I have a 2007 and I’m now wondering if I have issues that I have to address. I never noticed whether I had this aft hole in the floor just before the bilge, but now I’m wondering if some if this bilge water I was finding after I drained, clean and wiped down the bilge is coming from under the floor and not just water that sloshed around from under the gas tanks.

I don’t see anywhere in these discussions what the final plan is and whether the factory ever came back with what should be done. As CD has new owners, I can’t call the factory or try to get something done under warrantee, so what is the best approach from the Crew? Re-caulk the bulkhead and hope, drill and install a access port, plug the aft hole, all of the above?

Any ideas would be great and appreciated.

Thanks Jim
 
I had talked to Fluid Marine just as they were being sold to Seasport. Seasport had no obligation to take over the warranty, so I had to fix it myself. They was another long topic on the warranty issue.

I ended up following the advice Fluid Marine gave me. I get my service done at Cook Engine, so I told them to cut a small access port on the vertical surface of the cockpit deck where it drops down about two inches and the fuel tank walls are. They borescoped it and found structural foam stringers, but no filler foam.

Then, they tilted the bow up and let it drain with a heater running on it for three days until all the water was out and the best I could tell it was dry. Then they epoxied the hole in the bilge corner. Last, they installed a plastic drain port to close the hole in the vertical surface.

It's been back in the water about a month now and I haven't had any more problems.

Reading back through this, I think Fluid Marine was trying to keep the back of the boat as light as possible. When installing the cockpit deck, that corner of the bilge probably got bashed on something, causing more than one boat to have the hole.

Since you can't see the hole, nobody notices until you vacuum the bilge complety dry and lo and behold, hey, where is that water coming from?
 
This sounds exactly like the Venture problems with water under the aft cockpit. See great pictures of the under cockpit area by Pacific Wanderer in the recent photo section on the home page.

Many of us Venture owners have added an aft inspection plate (between the fuel tanks) and one forward near the bow in the cabin. As Ross (of Pacific Wanderer) shows this void goes from the bow to the stern. Some of us have some foam under the decks but it seems most do not. Leaks into this area come from the joint at the cabin bulkhead, the chain locker, and any screw holes or bolts through the cockpit deck or cabin sole.

Tim and Dave
 
Dave (C-Voyager) of Toland Marine (The New Marinaut) has an excellent reply about how the Ventures were built with the double hull configuration, and what might account for water intruding into the between hull void. See toward the end on page 5 of the thread "Water Under Aft Cockpit of 07 Venture.

He also describes how their building process addresses this issue in the new Marinaut.

Tim and Dave
 
Guys thanks for all the additional info.

From what it sounds like even if I don’t really have a hole at the end of the flooring aft, I would want some type of access, a sealable plug or inspection plate to validate you’re not dragging around water and to make sure the caulking at the aft bulkhead and floor is still intact. I don’t think the CD 22’ has a double floor in the cabin like a Venture, so I would just be dealing with the aft cockpit area floor.
Anyone drill a horizontal hole on the aft cockpit area floor and just install one of those round access ports that screw in and have a gasket? They look like they are 5-6” in diameter? Anyone see any issues going that way?

Thanks Jim
 
When I talked to Fluid Marine about this problem, they said there is very little clearance between the hull and the cockpit deck in the area between the fuel tanks. In fact, the deck is glassed to the hull there at the transom so there is no space between the deck and the hull.

Drilling a hole on the horizontal surface between the fuel tanks wouldn't get you much access as the hull is likely less than a quarter of an inch below the deck. That's why they told me to drill on the vertical surface where the cockpit deck goes down the two inches into the fuel tank area.

You can barely see the little access port they put there and they had a pretty good view into the void between the deck and the hull with a borescope. I'll get a picture next time I am down at the boat.
 
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