Best integrated system these days?

[matt_unique]

I just purchased a Tomcat and I'm researching electronics. I have been partial to the Raymarine C-80 with 2kw radome, the WAAS GPS, and the depth. In reading this site there seems to be lots of problems with this system. (Or perhaps it is the most popular thus more problems).

I want the chart plotter ability of course, radar, and depth. I actually don't need/want a fish finder but I like the idea of an integrated unit. (My handhelp GPS, charts, and compass will always be the backup).

What are your suggestions for the best integrated unit these days?

Thanks

 

[Byrdman]

Matt: Had total Raymarine on the TC24 and with ease of use of the Garmin stuff I swoar my next set would be Garmin. I love the "ease of use" that my little Garmin 76S had... The Raymarine at that time just seemed like the folks that designed and used them did not get a lot of sunshine...and stayed in lab coats hunkered down on screens all day long.... which translates to I could not remember how to do some of things I needed to do each trip between trips due to the button pushing needed ....

But, then Brigner got the E-120 updated version with the soft keys and much was/has improved. Guess the taned folks at Garmin had began eating Raymaine's lunch. Amazing what on market competition will drive.

And...my brother Mike's system is Raymarine, and some others I boat with are Raymarine...and non of us are "electronically-bi-lingual..."... so, I went back to Raymarine....other than the Simrad autopilot which fell right into place as it should have.

Now, Garmin still is hands down, head over heals better on their "one over the world already on the GPS system's maps"....

and I am doing the hunt now for the inland waterway chips for the Raymarine because without the correct chip...you have real nice depth finder and sonar. But, the platnuim and gold chips for the coastal areas are real large area coverages, and very nice.... Just not a lot on the inland waterways yet....

So,, for the ability for my brother and friends to be able to take the helm of my boat and feel at home with the electronics..and vis-versa....I went Raymarine.

If you are around a bunch of folks who use Garmin or any other package...might let that weigh in on YOUR purchase for YOUR boat for where YOU plan to boat.

Don't think there is a bad unit out there...just all differant.


Byrdman

 

[thataway]

Another logical way to approach the issue is to ask what cartography is best for my area? C map, Garmin or Navionics? I personally don't think that the Navionics "Platinum" or the C map "Max" add anything for me. But some folks like the 3 D views and the photos which come with these.

You may also want to look at who has the best bathyspheric maps--Although you say you don't want a fish finder--I suspect that you really do. The reason, is to look at the bottom contour, the characteristerics of the bottom, and structure--especially if you will be diving--even if you are not really interested in fish.

I do think that Garmin is the most intuitative system to use. But I don't like the past policy of only allowing the soft ware to be used on two units before you have to pay another fee. Todays chart plotters have hard drives--I have both Garmin and Lowrance (Nautipath--Lowrance, which is almost identical to NOAA EIN). For many areas I prefer the C maps--and Furuno, Standard Horizon Northstar, Sinrad and Sitex are the major chart plotters which use the C map. Navionics is used by RayMarine, Furuno, Lowrance and some Northstar. Garmin is only used by Garmin....

All of the major lines now have Satellite weather, AIS as well as the usual functions.

If you want the best--then Furuno has the best radar, and the best depthfinder/fishfinder. Their chart plotters were a little slow on the redraw--but that has been changed, and with the new Nav Net 3 comming out--I expect that by the time you get your boat, Furuno will be a unit to seriously consider.

RayMarine has its maintance issues, and I think made a major boo boo, by not yet having fixed the WAAS sattelite acquistion. Hard to understand that one--I know why--but how they did it is the puzzle.

I personally don't like the integrated units--I want a separate depth sounder and chart plotters, as well as Radar--if you loose the integrated unit--you have lost it all. If you have two different chart plotters, plus a radar and a depth finder--you will probably have a total of more screen real estate, plus redundancy. If you take an 8" screeen and cut it into 4 sections--there isn't much left. I would rather have three 7" screens.

So, wait until the Spring--in the mean time, go to the boat shows, talk to the reps, and play with the units. Read the electronics section of the Hull Truth, and Panbo's collumn. Most likely what you want will jump out...

 

[timflan]

RayMarine has its maintance issues, and I think made a major boo boo, by not yet having fixed the WAAS sattelite acquistion. Hard to understand that one--I know why--but how they did it is the puzzle.

Can you help ME understand it? Seriously, I wrote a bit about it at Navagear:
http://www.navagear.com/2007/09/waas-fi ... receivers/

But you'll quickly see I avoided going out on a limb with any details that would...um...reveal the vast depth of my ignorance! This WAAS thing has me confused, I'll tell you.

 

[thataway]

First understand that WAAS is a differential GPS system which was susposed to be useful to airplanes, and was going to be "the" controllers/pilots dream system (pilots please comment). There was a "hole" where poor coverage actually tended to degrade the signals in the Eastern part of Canada and New England. My understanding is that the system does not give the accuracy necessary for aircraft. The two satellites which carried the WAAS signal were quite a bit to the West. Last December experiments were started using two other satellits--both equitorial, but both further to the East, to give better coverage to the US North East, and Canada. On July 13 (or there abouts) the old WAAS satellites were shut off and the system by default went to the new satellites: NMEA or Garmin #48 PRN #135 for the West and NMEA or Garmin #51 PRN #138 for the East.

RayMarine was aware of this change comming for at least a year. My understanding is that the WAAS satellite search/was a firmware built into the set--and that this was not user modifidable. I found that all of my GPS eventually captured the new satellites--a couple of them took 20 to 30 minutes.(Lowrance 2x, Garmin, 2x, Magellen, Standard Horizon, Cobra). Once they had this new satellite in the Almanac, they continued to pick it up on initial power up, and acquisition times remained normal. Furuno had to be programed to specifically look for the statellite by number, but it worked. Since RayMarine had firware for the WAAS satellite acquistion, rather than soft ware, there had to be a soft ware work around, to modify the firmware--and as of Sept 10th this has not been announced...I would think that this would be high priority. As of right now, the newest soft ware for the RayMarine is May 2007--which does not cover this problem. The question is why didn't RayMarine anticipate this change and why did they use a firmware which was difficult to modify?

 

[Doryman]

The question is why didn't RayMarine anticipate this change and why did they use a firmware which was difficult to modify?

This situation will be intimately familiar to just about anyone who has spent time developing software. Bad engineering management, bad architecture, bad programming -- could be any of those reasons, or others. See this Wikipedia entry for software bugs, particularly the list of famous computer bugs.

What bothers me more is that, as far as I know, Raymarine has not contacted its customers to alert them to the problem, even if it can't provide an immediate fix.

Warren

 

[Alok]

The significance of the satellite switch has also been talked about in another forum.

Below, I am posting a question I asked Raymarine and their answer. As you can see, this "conversation" occurred just last week.

Question:

I have a C80 MFD with GPS/2 KW radar/depthsounder system purchased last september.

Recently, I have begun to notice that when I am in the channel at the entrance to Clear Lake Tx (my home port), the display shows the boat at the very edge of the channel even when I am visually in the dead center of the channel. This is a new development. Nothing has changed about the channel itself.

I am not sure whether the display is showing me slightly "off" my position at all times. Is that even possible? If so, it makes me very nervous- I run some pretty tight channels using the display!

Response (Chuck Anderson) 09/05/2007 12:05 PM
Click on the following URL for information on this topic: http://raymarine.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/r ... faqid=1321.

(Note: This is what you get from that URL - Alok

Question
What impact does the recent change to the United States' WAAS GPS correction system have on my Raymarine products?

Answer
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) recently decommissioned two WAAS GPS satellites (PRN 122 and PRN 134), and the activated two replacement satellites (PRN 135 and PRN 138). The WAAS firmware in certain Raymarine products does not recognize satellites 135 or 138.

All of the Raymarine products affected continue to receive the standard GPS signals and therefore are safe for navigation. As always, these products are an aid to navigation. It continues to be the user's responsibility to use caution, sound judgment, official government charts, notices to mariners and proper navigational skill when using this or any other electronic navigational product.

All software updates and instructions for these products will be posted to Customer Support section of www.Raymarine.com.

If you have additional questions, please contact our product support department by clicking on the "Ask Raymarine" tab above, or by telephone on 603.881.5200. Press option 4 for Tech Support.

PRODUCTS AFFECTED:

C/E series utilizing an RS120 or RS125 GPS sensor connected on SeaTalk - require a software update that will be posted on our website during September, 2007.

2007 RC435 and RC435i- require a software update that will be posted on our website in early November 2007.

A60 and A65 utilizing RS12 GPS sensor- solution pending, check back for update on our website in early September 2007.

 

[jlastofka]

I bought a Garmin 4212. I didn't want the touch screen version. I hate the idea of putting salty or fishy fingers on a video screen. The display is beautiful and easy to read. I also got the fancy video chart overlay cartridge and it's stunning.

I have the digital sonar, but I'm not experienced enough with sonars to be able to judge it. I plan to add the radar, but I'm kind of backed up on projects and if I bought it now it would sit around for quite a while. I like the idea of one big display instead of having boxes all over the boat. I don't know how good their radar will be, but I just want to see cargo ships, tugs and large yachts in the fog, so I don't think I'll be too particular about details and long range.

I've had a lot of TV's, stereos, GPS's, etc over the years and I've never had one fail. I'm not worried about having everything in one box, but I do have a handheld GPS for kayak and dinghy use and that will get me home just in case. I also carry paper charts.

The Garmin stuff seems very easy to use. They do lock you in to their software, however. They did seem to leave out a useful feature or two, but I bet they'll update soon. They did that with the 76 series handhelds, and maybe others I haven't tried.

Jeff

 

[Grumpy]

If you check the Raymarine website you will see that the WAAS issue is sheduled to be resolved by downloadable SW fix sometime in September for the E and C series units.
Agreed it was very forseeable so it is a little surprising it wasn't available before the cut off date of the old satellites.
Will comment further when I have it installed.

Merv

 

[timflan]

If you check the Raymarine website you will see that the WAAS issue is sheduled to be resolved by downloadable SW fix sometime in September for the E and C series units.

Oh, you mean that thing I wrote about?

I wrote a bit about it at Navagear:
http://www.navagear.com/2007/09/waas-fi ... receivers/

Come on, you gotta read Navagear or you'll never keep up on this stuff!
(Seriously, if you want to keep up on this stuff, you read www.panbo.com. I only posted to Navagear because he hadn't yet! It isn't often I get to scoop Ben Ellison.)

 

[Grumpy]

Tim,
That's it. I didn't post it verbatim because I read the Raymarine copyright at the bottom...
And YES I do read your site too because it has a sense of humor !!

Ciao

Merv

 

[flapbreaker]

If radar is in your future it's my opinion that an all in one system is vital to understanding the echo's you'll be seeing. At least it will greatly speed up your interpretation skills. The ability to overlay the radar on the chart is phenomenal.

 

[ffheap]

Hi Folks,

I saw a system on HUNKY DORY, Rick from Maines boat. Chart plotter, radar.etc. It changed my feeling about the systems.

Fred

 

[oldgrowth]

I have the Garmin integrated electronics. My GPS has a 5” screen and is plenty big for all information. Charts, depth, boat speed, compass, radar, temperature and more. I do not have room for a lot of monitors and even if I did I would still prefer only one integrated unit. It sits in front of me and slightly below my line of sight. Easy to read with bi-focals/reading glasses.
________
Dave