Ben Toland's Next Boat

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oldgrowth

New member
Thought I would let the fellow Brats know that Ben Toland has designed a new boat. It is now in the build process and should be available sometime the first quarter of next year.

For those of you unfamilar with Ben Toland, he was instrumental in the design and building of the original C-Dory boats when his family owned the business. He also designed and built the Toland 18-8 and designed the Cape Cruiser boats (the Venture-23 & Marinaut-26) now being built by C-Dory as the Venture 23 & Venture 26. He is a true craftsman. His design & workmanship are second to none.

I really like the new design but seeing as I had some input, I may be prejudice.

If you want to look at the design and get more information about the Marinaut 205, the web site is HERE.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
Dave and Ben-

Lots of creative ideas! Ben's a master creator and designer. Always adding some new ideas and applications. The original C-Dory creator just keeps reinventing the basic small pilothouse dory.

You can be proud to be a part of this new development, Dave!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
When I first heard about this new boat I thought it would be perfect for pulling behind a small motor home. Now that I have seen more of the cool ideas you and Ben put into it I am even more of that opinion! :thup :thup

I'm looking forward to seeing the boat in person and hope you will bring it to some CBGTs for sea trials!

Warren
 
I stopped by Ben and Dave's shop on my last trip north. It was a very enjoyable experience.

Ben is so incredibly passionate about boat building...we chatted for well over an hour, and I've acquired a serious amount of respect for the guy. I found it interesting how he views the process...much less like a naval architect, and more like an artist. He admits as much, going so far as to call the boat his "canvas". And while aesthetics are certainly a subjective matter, I think he nailed this one...I find this design much more visually pleasing than either of the Cape Cruisers.

While there's little doubt given his knowledge and experience the hull will perform well, that's not where his energy seems to be directed. That problem, in his mind, seems trivial compared to getting everything else on the boat "just right".

There are many innovative designs being incorporated into this boat, but I found a few of them to be significant standouts.

Having a removable rear solid bulkhead, gives this boat the best of both worlds. Having owned both a 19 and 22, I sorely miss the open back when fishing on the 22. But having the cabin enclosed has obvious advantages to the cruiser. Ben indicated this wouldn't be the kind of thing one add/removes in just a couple minutes, but having the option still sounds very intriguing to me.

The other, are the saddle tanks...anyone want to guess who might have influenced this decision? Anyway, they make so much more sense to me. Moving the weight forward a bit, will help quite a bit with the ride. Having saddle tanks requires that the gunnels be wide - like the 16 and 19, which is far more comfortable to rest your toosh upon than the 22, and provides a larger surface for mounting accessories. And finally - being able to carry additional fuel under the motor well - bringing the total up to 100 gallons - will give this boat insane range. Something that's not only great for folks considering jaunts up the Inside Passage, but think of the money you'll save on a multi-day trip by buying all your fuel ahead of time. And once again, the modular design approach was taken here. If you don't need the fuel capacity, pull the tanks for a wide open storage space under the motor well.

And lastly, having the v-berth open to the cabin, is a design that should never have disappeared in my opinion. I'll be opening it back up on my 22 once I have time and a good plan. In addition to the ease of access, better flow of heat, and additional sleeping space provided to port, they've increased the headroom down there - something every 19/22 owner has a likely cussed about at one time or another.

Anyway, I'm obviously impressed with both the boat and designer - and it has nothing to do with the fact they're advertisers here. :mrgreen:
 
I like it !! It was a real shame about the problem Ben had with the C-Dory and the CC...but this is totally a different boat...so that should cure any animosity.....

Anything Ben builds is quality and I am sure he will build a winner...it really looks good..... I agree about a bigger boat.... I already have a 22' and would like to move up too.... with this fuel economy thing it makes sense to build smaller boats.... he definitely will do well....

Joel
SEA3PO
 
Hello,
I wondered about what happened when C-Dory was sold? Did Toland start up a new company Cape Dory and then start compete against the company that he just sold? A lawsuit then, C-Dory takes over Cape Dory? Just wondered what went on really. What happened to the people that bought Cape Dory's concerning warranty etc? If someone buys a new Toland boat now would the same thing happen? Given the obvious respect shown toward Mr. Toland and his track record, his new boat seems to be worth considering but I wanted to understand the history. Still a Lurker Thanks
D.D.
 
dave deem":3oug1vit said:
I wondered about what happened...
Click to expand...

The abridged version - nothing but facts below, to the best of my knowledge. There are plenty of opinions and speculations on the details, use the search if such things interest you - it's been discussed at length many times.

- Mark Toland sells C-Dory to Scot Reynolds and family

- Ben Toland (Mark's brother) starts Cape Cruiser, builds 23 and 26

- C-Dory under Scot Reynolds sues Cape Cruiser, wins

- Cape Cruiser goes out of business

- C-Dory gets Cape Cruiser 23 and 26 molds as part of settlement, starts building them as the Venture series

- Dave (oldgrowth) and Ben Toland start Toland Marine

- C-Dory can't meet financial obligations, all assets acquired by Fluid Marine, LLC.

RE warranties - I've no idea who is obligated to cover what. My wild guess is, there's no obligation on behalf of anyone mentioned above, to cover boats manufactured under prior ownership, or for businesses that no longer exist. What somebody WILL cover, as a good will gesture, may very well be different from what they're required to cover. So, should my 22 ever need anything in this regard, I'll be sure to ask extra-nice like... :mrgreen:
 
Just got back from my daughters for fathers day and had a great time. I hope all the dad’s out there had as good a fathers day as I did.

I am very pleased with the response we have received from all of you on this thread and look forward to having a boat for next years get togethers. It will be available for anyone to take for a test spin can. I hope the boat will be ready by next years Seattle Boat show, but it will not be there. The lead time for a space is too much for us to commit to, so if it is ready, we will bring it to the C-Brats Seattle Boat show get together.

I also want to thank all of you that emailed Ben and left feedback on the tolandmarine website. He is having a fathers day get together with his family up north. He will be back Monday and said he will respond to everyone within the next few days.

The response on our site has been overwhelming and positive. As with all boats there are some that would like some features to be different. The great thing about this boat is, it is highly customizable so many of the things some want can be changed or added, except a bigger boat.

We do have some preliminary plans for a similar boat five feet longer and a 8’ 6” beam. However, nothing will come of it until we get the Marinaut 205 in production and established as a quality boat company. We would also need more space and more employees. If everything goes as planed, the 25’ Marinaut may be in production two years from now. But we will remain a small boat company building a few quality boats at a time.

D.D. – Toland Marine is not building a boat that looks like a C-Dory. Ben Toland was not part of C-Dory when it was sold to Scot Reynolds and he did not own the Cape Cruiser company. He was hired by them to designed and build the plug. In the court settlement Ben Toland was allowed to continue designing and building boats as long as they don’t ….. and that criteria was spelled out. This boat meets all the criteria the judge required to differentiate it from the C-Dory.

I would just as soon not rehash the whole C-Dory / Cape Cruiser issue again on this thread. If you have a question that you feel you just need to ask about CD/CC/BT send me a PM.

Bill – thank you for the positive comments and it was a pleasure meeting your dad when you visited.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
Addendum to Da Nag's timeline:
Ben designed and built the Toland 18-8 after leaving C-Dory, prior to designing the Cape Cruisers. Des Moines boats in Des Moines, WA was the exclusive dealer for the Toland 18-8. I understood from Ivan, the owner of Des Moines boats, that only 12 or 13 of these boats were built. I had the pleasure of owning one for a several years.

I am glad to see that Ben and Dave are creating a new boat that will be a "home run" when it goes into production.

Best Regards,
Leo
 
Hello,
I didn't want to flare up any old wounds. I just wanted to understand the backround and the people. I think the facts clear the air for me and others in the market for this type of boat. It saved a lot of time sifting through dirty laundry which is not what the questions or myself are about. Thanks to all that responded. I wish Toland Marine all the best.
D.D.
 
I'm sure glad Bill's timeline was included!

I missed the whole thread on the change in ownership because I was holed up in the hospital during the entire adventure!

I wonder what else I missed along he way, even though I thought I perused through the topics covered during that three week "vacation" after I got home.

It IS getting harder to read EVERYTHING on the site anymore, at least if you take time to post your thoughts on the topics as well!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
In looking at the new Toland boat I had a question about the pro's and con's of an extended transom. The Hewescraft I went fishing on last week had one and I noticed the Rosboroughs do also. My first thought is that this would lessen the noise and vibration caused by having the engine directly on the transom?
Not having any background in boat building/design I'm wonder what others think.

Tom
 
tom&shan":1i6g4ozq said:
In looking at the new Toland boat I had a question about the pro's and con's of an extended transom. The Hewescraft I went fishing on last week had one and I noticed the Rosboroughs do also. My first thought is that this would lessen the noise and vibration caused by having the engine directly on the transom?
Not having any background in boat building/design I'm wonder what others think.

Tom
Click to expand...

I'm sure it drops some of the noise level down, but since the human ear responds to logarithmic changes in volume, I doubt the volume difference is considerable.

The logarithmic deal is that something has to be ten times lounder or ten times quieter to appear twice as loud or half as loud to the ear, respectively (approximately).

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I like it...alot! :thup My first thought was, "Why is it only 20 1/2 feet?" That's why I was glad to see your post Dave about a 25 footer.

Oldgrowth":3bhcfu6a said:
We do have some preliminary plans for a similar boat five feet longer and a 8’ 6” beam. However, nothing will come of it until we get the Marinaut 205 in production and established as a quality boat company. We would also need more space and more employees. If everything goes as planed, the 25’ Marinaut may be in production two years from now.
Click to expand...
If the 25' looks anything like the 20.5', I might take a good look at that boat. By then, the timing might be good to start looking at a moving up in size. Keep us posted!

Peter
C-Dancer
 
Just a thought or two:

The 20.5' design was probably chosen to fit into a nitche where the competition will allow it a better chance of having it's own marketshare.

Why build another 22 or 23? Or a 25? Plenty of C-Dory and C-Ranger products at those sizes already. This boat will easily outsell the CD-19, IMHO. And it's in a more affordable price range for greater numbers of people.

Plus the smaller boat will be more efficient and appealing with the gas crisis.

Another thought: Add a smokestack and a few more cosmetic adaptations, and this boat would 1.) make a dandy looking mini-tug, and 2.) be free of the speed limitations of the displacement hulls found on the other small tug boats available (remember the discussion on how many HP does it take to plane a Ranger 21 tug?)

side_red_yellow_19.gif


Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I like it!
A few random thoughts in comparison to the C-Dory 22;
It seems to have a narrower waterline beam, I wonder if it will pound a little less in the waves.
The blunt bow will allow more useable interior space than the overall length would suggest. As much as the C-D 22? This is tricky to compare with the information at hand. The bow flare and narrower waterline beam will likely reduce storage. The convex bow sections of the C-D 22 help here. In fact the C-D 22 bow reminds me of a hamster that has her cheeks filled! Did I ever mention that we named our boat after a hamster?
I would like to see a v-berth offered as well. The storage area in the bow will work for some but the berth shown will likely be too crowed for two to share comfortably.
The saddle tanks and optional stern tanks are a winner, good job.
 
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