Baystar Hydraulic steering HC4645H for twins

H

Hunkydory

New member
With the auto pilot out making for a complete bleed of the hydraulic steering system when re installed, I'm considering changing out the hydraulic cylinder HC4600 for the improved HC4600H while it's apart. The HC 4600 cylinder with its being mounted similar to the original telefax mechanical where the steering shaft has to run back & forth through the transom motor support tube makes for the same corrosion & binding problems that can result in the steering locking. The HC4645H mounts to the ends of the motor mount tube making all the shaft movement on the outside & in the hydraulic cylinder solving this problem. The positive part of the HC4600 cylinder has been no leaks resulting in seal replacement in its 9 seasons of use.

Both these hydraulic steering cylinders were made for the smaller Honda Motors & the HC4600 was the cylinder used by the factory when they started the option of hydraulic steering for the twin Honda 40's.

Has anyone else already made this conversion or installed the HC4645H with twins. Any information could be helpful. It appears to me one motor still must be taken off the transom to remove the HC4600 & installing the HC4645H with less room involved with twins, but would sure be good to know if it actually can done without removal.

Jay
 
Les at EQ installed this hydraulic steering system on our boat with twin 40hp Hondas. He had to remove one motor to install the system. I do not think their is any way around this option. Hope this helps. We have been very happy with the BayStar system. Wonder why we waited so long.
 
Jay, I installed a Baystar system this winter and for the life of me I couldn't figure out how to use the HC4645H cylinder ( the steering link between the twin Honda 40s wouldn't work no matter how I tried to hook them up ). I found a new HC4600 cylinder on E Bay and used that instead. I didn't have to remove an engine to install it. I removed the rod that goes into the tilt tube on the port end of the cylinder and there was plenty of room.
If you figure out how to use the newer style cylinder with your twins I would be interested in how you did it just in case I ever need to replace my outdated cylinder.
Clint
 
Big Mac, I didn't think there was anyway around this option either with the measuring I have done & like you knew the motor had to be removed to take out the old mechanical steering & I really didn't know If it was necessary or not for installation of the hydraulic. Now glad to hear Clint was able to remove & install the HC4600 without removal of motor & hoping his twins were mounted the same distance apart as mine, so clearance for removal of shaft works for me too. Clint, I too have difficulty seeing how the set up in this diagram http://www.seastarsolutions.com/wp-cont ... 0050-A.pdf allows for the mounting of twins & am nervous about purchasing the kit & not being able to make it work too. A while back, I saw a new HC4600 cylinder for sale very cheap on E bay, but refrained due to wanting to solve the problem of the shaft on the HC4600 hanging up inside the motor mount pivot tube. If I'm able to do this on my own, from anyone else or through research I will let you know how.

Jay
 
Clint,

Not yet. I had the parts sent to where we are in Colorado with new grandchild, so won't be working on installation until we get back home & if all goes as planned that's about a week away.

Jay
 
I finished successfully mounting the HC4645H hydraulic steering cylinder today. There is no binding while steering with either motor fully up or down. I already had the extended Honda steering connecting tabs on the Honda motors for the HC4600 cylinder & with out them I don't see another way to connect the linkage beween the motors & even with them the connecting plate on the HC4645H cylinder had to be reversed. It was also necessary to connect the linkage to the other motor & the clyinder to the same point on the mounted motor connection tab. It was a long job due to also replacing all the other componets of the hydraulic steering along with re installing the S1000 auto pilot.

In the process of reversing the HC4645H connecting plate one cylinder end had to be taken partly off & though the directions said be very carely not to let it come completely apart due to possible damage to packing seal when putting back together, I managed to anyway, so will be checking more then usual for leaks on that end.

Its wonderful knowing, I no longer have to be concerned about the rod jammimg in the one motors support tube like I have had to the last 12 seasons with either the old mechanical steering or the HC4600 Hydraulic. I'm also very pleased & relieved my gamble of trying to make this work payed off because I didn't take Clint's problems with doing it lightly.

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Great to read that you took a (researched) gamble, persevered, and got it done! Sweet :thup

Just curious (maybe I missed this in your description), but did you end up having to remove one or both of your engines? If so how did you go about it?

I've taken care of all the holes on my transom except the motor mount ones, so I'm looking at somehow lifting the engine so I can get in there and do it. I think I"ll add some sort of transom "washer" plate too (like the Ocean Pros you show), and also raise the engine up a couple holes "while I'm in there." Ironically, it sounds like the shop that I'm going to have repair my tilt mechanism has to remove the engine to do that (but of course I can't do my epoxying then). How aggravating to have to do it twice in a row! At any rate, I was thinking of renting a small engine hoist (no handy beams around), and just wondering how you went about it if you did remove an engine.

I'm going to be following you down the hydraulic steering upgrade path, albeit without the added challenge of the twins. Not sure if that's going to happen before Powell though - I may wait until afterward so there is no pressure to meet the departure date.
 
Sunbeam,

When I switched from mechanical to hydraulic steering in 2005, I had a boat shop make the switch, just due to the motor having to be removed to do it. Because of the poor job done by them then, this time I was planning to do it my self even with the removal of the motor if necessary, but fortunately it wasn't. The only part of the old HC4600 cylinder that wouldn't easily come out was the shaft going through the motor support tube & it was a hollow tube easily cut with a hacksaw.
 
I guess I forgot (between when the thread was started and now) that you already had hydraulic steering (I'll be switching from cable). SO irritating to have to re-do a "professional's" work and find that it wasn't just time/wear-and-tear, but a faulty or sloppy original job :amgry This is mostly why I do my own work (not really because I enjoy it overmuch, but because I want it done right and don't want to be worrying about hidden flaws).

Sweet that you were able to do it without removing the engine(s) :thup
 
We have had that or a very similar setup for 8 years and 1100 engine hours with very little problem. I replaced the seals on the ram connecting the two engines and will replace seals at the helm over the winter. Baystar was easy to deal with and had good instructions. By the way if you look carefully in your instructions you should see a list of compatible fluids so you don't have to buy the super expensive Baystar hydraulic fluid (I use an aircraft brake fluid that is on the list at less than 1/2 the cost.) If needed I add fluid at the helm using a baby ear syringe, (it's like a racquetball with a point) that is convenient for me. I keep about a pint of fluid on board as a spare.
 
Barry,

I like the idea of the baby ear syringe for topping off & did read about the alternative oils that can be used, but here in our remote Wyoming location it's not easy to get, even via internet. I had previously bought 2 qts of the Seastar fluid on EBay for a good price & the complete new steering kit came with a couple more, so have plenty for the future.

Seastar/Baystar changed over from the HC4600 cylinder to the HC4645 about the same time I switched to hydraulic steering in 2005 & if I remember correctly I could have went to the HC4645 at that time, but in my switch over research, I talked to the C-Dory Factory & they recommended I use the HC4600. I would have been saved much agitation if the HC4645 had been installed at that time instead. Is your trouble free hydraulic cylinder the HC4645 & was it installed by the factory? If so, they must have made the change right after my inquiries to them.

Jay
 
Barry, I think perhaps the reason you have had trouble free service out of the 4600 & me not with us both having used it for about the same time is salt water getting into my inner support tube from a poor wiper seal on the port side of the motor support tube, which seals around the shaft of the 4600 mounting rod. This would have caused the build up of rust, I experienced resulting in the jamming with both the 4600 hydraulic & the mechanical set up before it that functioned similarly. Many others, besides me have had this rust build up & the resulting jamming of the steering using this type of mount, which might of been prevented with the seal being checked more often & replaced if needed. Right now I'm happy the new 4645 is in, working properly & not mounted where a good seal to keep water out of the support tube is necessary.

Jay
 
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